C2 vs C2S

[erik_plus8]

Hi!

First post on this forum... :)

I am a 41-year old looking to buy my first Porsche. As many others, I've dreamed about a 911 since I was a kid and now it seems I could have the possibility to fulfil my dream.

The plan is to replace my current boat with a Porsche during next year. I will use it maybe not as a daily driver (for that purpose the Volvo does a good job... :rolleyes: ) but will try to drive a couple of days a week to work and maybe one or two track days over a year.

I've narrowed it down to 997, 2006 or newer. So far, I've only looked for C2S cars but I've realised that at least here in Sweden, there is quite a substantial difference in price between the C2 and C2S for an otherwise similarily spec:ed car. Even though I imagine the difference in price will still be there when I sell the car in the future, the entry ticket for me would be lower which could be a nice thing.

So, could anyone please describe what kind of differences I would experience between the C2 and the C2S. My guess is that the bigger engine would give some enhanced driveability (higher available torque) but the extra 30bhp on top would more seldom be noticable...? Anything else between theses version that needs to be considered? I think here in Europe the C2S has PASM as standard, whereas the C2:s don't. But a lot of used C2:s seem to have that as option anyway.

Thanks in advance for any input, best regards,

Erik, Sweden

[Loren]

:welcome:

Here are the specs for the MY05 911's (2006 is pretty much the same).

997_1_specs.pdf

[erik_plus8]

Great, thanks Loren!

I didn't know that the gear ratios and the final drive were the same between the two. For me, that's good because it means that all the extra performance in the engine will be available as extra performance in the car, and not for enabling a slighter longer final drive in order to gain a little fuel milage (which is the current trend among automakers here in Europe... :huh: )

Has anyone driven the two back-to-back and could describe differences felt behind the wheel?

Thanks!

[Hamad]

Great, thanks Loren!

I didn't know that the gear ratios and the final drive were the same between the two. For me, that's good because it means that all the extra performance in the engine will be available as extra performance in the car, and not for enabling a slighter longer final drive in order to gain a little fuel milage (which is the current trend among automakers here in Europe... :huh: )

Has anyone driven the two back-to-back and could describe differences felt behind the wheel?

Thanks!

I did! huge difference in terms of performance (especially the S with sports package). you will hate the non S (and yourself maybe) if you drive an S with sports mode on! :)

[beauar]

i think its pretty simple. What is the price difference? If it were me and there was a huge difference in price and not performance.....I would opt to go with the C2 and then spend the money at a performance shop for a new exhaust, intake, suspension etc. Of course I am assuming there isn't that big of a difference in performance between a c2 and c2s. weight out the prices

Hi!

First post on this forum... :)

I am a 41-year old looking to buy my first Porsche. As many others, I've dreamed about a 911 since I was a kid and now it seems I could have the possibility to fulfil my dream.

The plan is to replace my current boat with a Porsche during next year. I will use it maybe not as a daily driver (for that purpose the Volvo does a good job... :rolleyes: ) but will try to drive a couple of days a week to work and maybe one or two track days over a year.

I've narrowed it down to 997, 2006 or newer. So far, I've only looked for C2S cars but I've realised that at least here in Sweden, there is quite a substantial difference in price between the C2 and C2S for an otherwise similarily spec:ed car. Even though I imagine the difference in price will still be there when I sell the car in the future, the entry ticket for me would be lower which could be a nice thing.

So, could anyone please describe what kind of differences I would experience between the C2 and the C2S. My guess is that the bigger engine would give some enhanced driveability (higher available torque) but the extra 30bhp on top would more seldom be noticable...? Anything else between theses version that needs to be considered? I think here in Europe the C2S has PASM as standard, whereas the C2:s don't. But a lot of used C2:s seem to have that as option anyway.

Thanks in advance for any input, best regards,

Erik, Sweden

[phillipj]

Get the "S" with Sport Chrono. :D

I beg to differ that you can get the performance of the "S" in the base C2 by adding an exhaust etc., There is no way that those kind of mods are going to get you a usable 30 hp.

Here in California the used "S" is about the same price as the used base C2.

I agree with the other poster...If you get the base C2 and than drive an "S" in Sport mode you will hate yourself.

Good luck with whatever you decide

[355bhp]

Great, thanks Loren!

I didn't know that the gear ratios and the final drive were the same between the two. For me, that's good because it means that all the extra performance in the engine will be available as extra performance in the car, and not for enabling a slighter longer final drive in order to gain a little fuel milage (which is the current trend among automakers here in Europe... :huh: )

Has anyone driven the two back-to-back and could describe differences felt behind the wheel?

Thanks!

The first Porsche I drove was a 996 Carrera (non-S), and I was absolutely blown away by the performance! On paper, the acceleration times between S and non-S versions look to be mere tenths of a second apart. My car doesn't have the Sport option, but it's still enough to scare the daylights out of me! And the torque on tap at 4000+ revs is breathtaking! I think the only solution is to drive both back-to-back and then decide if the extra performance (and cachet) is worth the extra cost. Oh, and if you drive an S the way it's supposed to be driven, the fuel "economy" is downright laughable! Have fun!

Edited November 21, 2009 by 355bhp

[erik_plus8]

Hi guys,

thanks a lot for all input - much appriciated!! :thankyou:

Judging from the majority of replies, I should continue and try to make financial room for an S (with Sports Chrono...). Going with a C2 would probably have me constantly wondering what a C2S would be like...

The price difference here is something like $15000 so it's not neglectable. At the same time that money would probably not take me far in converting a C2 to have more performance.

I have driven a 997 C4 and was impressed by the performance, if not scared to death. So that's why I so far proritized a C2S.

But I will defintely try to drive a C2S myself ASAP and then decide if it's worth the extra money.

[shocky]

A lot of people think the 3.6 is a sweeter engine. Try to get a late 06 or newer as they added additional webbing around the intermediate shaft.

John

[utkinpol]

So, could anyone please describe what kind of differences I would experience between the C2 and the C2S. My guess is that the bigger engine would give some enhanced driveability (higher available torque) but the extra 30bhp on top would more seldom be noticable...? Anything else between theses version that needs to be considered? I think here in Europe the C2S has PASM as standard, whereas the C2:s don't. But a lot of used C2:s seem to have that as option anyway.

Thanks in advance for any input, best regards,

Erik, Sweden

It is very interesting and quite important thing - to make right first choice.

C2 and C2S are both built from same platform. Both have chance to be heavily optioned. Now, you have to make you decision toward what is it you going to do with your car and look at it from this perspective.

So, as you know most C2S comes with xenon lights, PASM, 3.8 engine, bigger self-adjusting clutch, bigger brakes, also sport chrono option is most usually there.

C2 in worst option scenario will have nothing of it. I am yet to see one with no xenons - but it is possible.

Now, I did choose C2 for myself. Why? First of all I was not going to resell car any time soon. If you plan to sell it - go with C2S as they are much better marketable than C2.

In average with similar set of options C2S usually costs $10K-$15K more than C2. Now why I did get C2 - I did not care about PASM as ultimately I am putting PSS10 bilstein coilovers for suspension and GT3 lower control arms. Exhaust is already swapped for 200 cell x-pipe cats from fabspeed with their maxflo mufflers. ECU is softronic with permanent sport mode activated - it eliminates need for sport chrono.

Now last step for my car will be to put brembo brakes and most likely - new TPC turbo kit. Pint here is - with goals to highly modify your car it makes no practical sense to pay for C2S in front as all you get essentially for this price difference is .2L engine displacement in the end, considering all the rest gets replaced anyway.

On other side of things - if you do not plan to rebuild your car and treat it as an overgrown Lego toy - C2S delivers you better package from the beginning.

Keeping all that in mind you should also realize that most usual reason for people to buy C2S is psychological - even base C2 has much more potential than average non-pro driver can extract from this car. But C2S has nice red brake calipers, and C2 - does not, so, most folks may get into constant frustration over this. I find it to be pretty silly, but this side of story should not be underestimated - it is a big purchase and you got to be sure about what is it you`re doing so it would be no remorse afterwards.

A lot of people buy C2 and live happy with it. A lot of other people realize they need best of the best and they buy turbo or GT3.

[utkinpol]

Get the "S" with Sport Chrono. :D

I beg to differ that you can get the performance of the "S" in the base C2 by adding an exhaust etc., There is no way that those kind of mods are going to get you a usable 30 hp.

Well, yes and no. On my car after ECU flash, plenum, fabspeed x-pipe cats and mufflers - here is the link to dyno charts. Of course it is result of everything done as a whole, not a single add-on.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/album.p...;pictureid=8782

It is mustang dyno, so actual max power after tuneup - 289 horses - matches that average C2S could show on mustang dyno. Now, it is right that C2S engine can be tuned into higher numbers, but 3.6L engine revvs higher and more durable, so, it is better candidate for extremes - like supercharging or turbo.

[erik_plus8]

@ utkinpol: very interesting thoughts, thank you for sharing! You describe very clearly your reasoning process and I have full understanding for your choices. In my case I have at the moment no ambition to treat the car as an overgrown Lego toy (although when you describe it it sounds actually quite tempting... :) )

I don't consider myself mechanically challenged - I have raced both karts and MX-bikes and therefore spent a few hours with a spanner in my hand. But I think the Porsche won't need similar endless hours in the garage... ;)

At the moment my first option is still the C2S - it must be the red calipers... :rolleyes:

[utkinpol]

@ utkinpol: very interesting thoughts, thank you for sharing! You describe very clearly your reasoning process and I have full understanding for your choices. In my case I have at the moment no ambition to treat the car as an overgrown Lego toy (although when you describe it it sounds actually quite tempting... :) )

I don't consider myself mechanically challenged - I have raced both karts and MX-bikes and therefore spent a few hours with a spanner in my hand. But I think the Porsche won't need similar endless hours in the garage... ;)

At the moment my first option is still the C2S - it must be the red calipers... :rolleyes:

Then if you get to it - look if you can for cars '06 and older, if used, preferably with CPO status. As of non-essential options look for full leather cars - it is very nice to have this option. PSE in my opinion is waste of money, better buy aftermarket mufflers if you find that you want more aggressive sound. heated seats are nice, also if you get sport chrono and electric seats then you`ll get some additional nice capabilities like memory for different ignition keys (seats adjustment, etc), your passenger side mirror will be able to flip down when you go in reverse, etc.

You can also get all this with aftermarket units - like mods4cars or you can get bluetooth/ipod integration with dension or mobridge units - but at same time you can search for car with stock options equipment. do not pass on navigation - it is very convenient and great feature, i got it installed after I bought my car at dealer and don`t regret it.

not sure what else to say - enjoy your search process and do a lot of research prior to buying your car. look on this forum and on

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997-31/

you`ll be amazed how much info and collective wisdom is collected there. to choose car right is very tricky with 997 model. do not hurry with this.

[phillipj]

utkimpol,

Great advice... i do have to point out though that the PSE (on all the time) combined with a smooth intake (Fabspeed or Schnell) prouduces a really awesome exhaust note. Best I've heard on my cars so far. I added the X 51 headers which actually changes the sound a bit. .

I have had Fabspeed mufflers on my 996's. I loved the sound on the 3.4 but not so much on the 3.6.

If you can get the PSE option on your car it's a pretty cool thing. But I sure wouldn't pay the money Porsche wants for it after purchase.

Good luck on your search for a car!

Edited December 6, 2009 by phillipj

[bjereb]

I have a C2 that is heavily optioned with PASM/Sport Chrono/19 inch wheels. As noted on a previous post, some (EXCELLENCE Maganine) preferred the base c2 over the C2s - easier revving engine. I happened to find a Cetrified Preowned Cobalt blue C2 that I liked. Had I seen the same car in a C2S withing $5,000 - I would have bought the C2S for the larger displacement, the bigger brakes and all the options that are standard in the C2S. It seems that in your part of the world the price differential is quite wide - which makes the decison much more difficult. At the end of the day, I have really enjoyed the C2. I track my car and the standard brakes have been great - no fade at all. I had a 968 and used to warp the rotors. But it's is human nature to always want more. I would like to skip ove the C2s and go right to the GT3 for my next car - if I'm lucky!

[erik_plus8]

Thanks everyone for valuable input - much appriciated :)

[frafoss]

I have owned a C2 and C2S. I have tested both with driftbox and the figures for these to cars is acutally the same. I didn't believe it my self. The C2S actually was with FVD flashtuning, 200 cells cats, sportexhaust. The C2 was stock with PSE only. The C2 was actually faster in straight line than a C4S with powerkit...

For driving in Sweden the C2 is more than enough. How do I know? Because I'm from Norway.

[phillipj]

That is very interesting... Thanks for that !

[Airrik]

That is very interesting... Thanks for that !

Very interesting indeed great post guys!

[PAULSPEED]

The S has the bigger brakes. I run Pagrid Blues

and they make a big difference over stock pads.

Paul

[h00dedclaw]

had the c2 tip 996 very un inspiring ...... as someone said you will hate yourself... now i have a c2S 997 manual big smile on my face everyday i climb in it ........ its only the C2S !

[erik_plus8]

Sort of forgot I started this thread :rolleyes:

Anyway - since mid September this year I have a 997S 2008 in my garage... :thumbup:

The car is a low milage MT black beauty. Interior is also black and options are: PSE, Sport Chrono, sport seats and extended leather => all the options I wanted! Carrera Sport wheels with Pirelli PZERO, although I think at next tire swap I'll try another brand since they don't seem too grippy, to be honest... :unsure:

At the moment it sits quietly in the garage waiting for April since the snow has arrived and lying 5" deep here in Gothenburg...

I am super happy with the car, it is really fantastic to drive. I bought it in Germany and had a marvellous 1200km drive home where me and the car got to know each other quite well on the non-speed restricted German Autobahns! Several times I caught myself laughing out loud when pushing a little...

Coming back to the original question I am happy that I went for the C2S. I am sure that a C2 also would have been sufficient, but we actually do have roads here where, on a late evening when there are no other cars (or cops) around, it is possible to let the car stretch out and then 355hp is not too much, in my opinion. GT3RS, anyone? ;)

[phillipj]

That's a beauty and you got all the right options... I envy your Autohbahn story.. Enjoy!

:drive:

[erik_plus8]

Thanks philipj - I will.

Now I have to out into the garage and pick up.......ummmm.....what was it now again........ Never mind, I'll have a look at the car instead ;)

[biopsea]

erik,

car looks great. glad you went with the S. and your options are spot on. congrats

biopsea