How to tell if lifters or tensioners are bad?

[grazy]

I have an '02 C4S with 31K miles. I am dealing with a significant metallic tapping problem...no issues when the car is just started and is not up to operating temp, but once it's warmed up, the tapping is there. When I rev the engine above 1000 rpm's, the tapping appears to go away. The sound is there with the clutch in or out; the oil is Mobil1 0-40 and is fresh. Any way to find out if it's lifters going bad or the chain tensioners..or ? The sound appears to be coming from both sides of the engine...maybe a little louder on the passenger side...please help!

[Falcon900EX]

Do some searches and you'll find some info. I know I've seen it somewhere on this board. E

[1999Porsche911]

What is your oil pressure on a fully warmed engine at idle. I suspect it is too low and the simplist way of fixing it is to move to a higher viscosity oil. IMOAE, you should never run Mobil's 0W40 in you car regardless of how it sounds. There are too many oils available that are far superior to that oil.

Other possible causes are an electronic tick casued by a bad coil or cable or the normal operation of your EVAP canister purge valve which can sometimes be quite loud, a bad belt or pulley.

Edited November 7, 2009 by 1999Porsche911

[grazy]

Thanks...I have done a lot of searching on several forums, but haven't found a good way to make a judgement about how to check. I have seen many posts about the oil type. I did check oil pressure and will need to go back to get numbers, but yes, once pressure steps up abit...rpms around 1000..the noise seems to go away. All I can say is that the noise is there now, wasn't before, all things being about same. Havent ruled out the coil or evap system though...appreciate everyone's thoughts about what to check...thanks

[Dharn55]

I have been having a ticking sound from my 00 since I reinstalled the engine after fixing a cracked head. Recently dropped the engine again to check the lifters. I spoke to Flat 6 and others regarding how to test the lifters. All said that you should be able to slightly compress the little pison on the underside of the lifters, some movement/compression should be there, only a couple of mm's. So when I had my lifters out I did this test and found that about half had some movement and half were "locked down." Based on this I decided to get a set of new lifters. They arrived this morning, brand new in the packages from INA. And much to my surprise there is no movement in any of the new lifters. Now they have never been in the engine with pressurized oil, which is what is supposed to expand them, but I was surprised to find no movement in a brand new set.

Edited November 7, 2009 by Dharn55

[grazy]

I just used a rubber mallet on the exhaust...tapped the cats and muffler and headers...got a sound like a marble dropping when I tapped the exhaust and muffler...cat's didnt seem to be making the noise %$? what could this be?

[Dharn55]

Sometime internal baffles come loose in the mufflers cans, but this is more of a rattle, and comes from the muffler, not the engine. If you are hearing a ticking that comes and goes, it is probably not the muffler. The lifters are hydraulic, using the oil pressure. So when the oil is cools there is more pressure, when it gets hot, lower pressure at idle, so sometimes the lifters will click, particularly with 0W-40. Increase the revs and the oil pressure goes up.

I used to think that 1999porsche911 was obsessed with his dislike of Mobil 1 0W-40, but now I tend to agree with him. I don't run 0W-40 of any type anymore, and have switched to Castrol 5W-40, or 10W-40 in hotter weather. I know my dealer and most others always used Mobil 1 0W-40, but in the early days of the 996 Mobil 1 was one of the few synthetic oils out there, and I think Porsche had some sort of a deal with them. I was recently surprised when I went back and read the manual that came with my car (2000 C4 Cab) and saw that there was no provision for 0W-40 oil for any temp range!!

[jorge61]

My local Porche dealer in Tampa uses Valvoline 5W/40 or Pennzoil 5W/40. The service manager claims they have not been using Mobil OW/40 for a while. My ambient year round temperature is usually above 55 and the Pennzoil Platinum 5W/40 has worked well for me. No leaks and no consumption issues. Although Mobil One 15W/50 is not on the Porche approved list I have often debated using that oil because its viscosity properties in high temperatures. I asked a Porche tech (experienced 20 plus years) what oil he uses and he replied "20W/50" in Florida. Now if I could only get Porche to approve that oil!!! Tire pressures and oil discussions bring the best of us out.

Jorge

[Loren]

My local Porche dealer in Tampa uses Valvoline 5W/40 or Pennzoil 5W/40. The service manager claims they have not been using Mobil OW/40 for a while. My ambient year round temperature is usually above 55 and the Pennzoil Platinum 5W/40 has worked well for me. No leaks and no consumption issues. Although Mobil One 15W/50 is not on the Porche approved list I have often debated using that oil because its viscosity properties in high temperatures. I asked a Porche tech (experienced 20 plus years) what oil he uses and he replied "20W/50" in Florida. Now if I could only get Porche to approve that oil!!! Tire pressures and oil discussions bring the best of us out.

Jorge

The Pennzoil Synthetic 5W-40 is Porsche approved the Valvoline is not.

5W-50 is approved oil also - not 20W-50.

[grazy]

Thank you for all the feedback folks. I will have the car checked out...all I know is that given the same oil brand and viscosity, operating temps, and ambient conditions...there is now a tapping noise when there was none before....something has changed. If it turns out that putting higher viscosity oil solves the problem..that may be a lot cheaper than other alternatives. The engine still runs great..very strong, smooth...just taps at idle now! Thanks again.

[jorge61]

Loren,

The Porche list dated Sep 25, 2008 has Valvoline SynPower HST SAE 5W-40 as approved oil for Porche. Unless this list has been updated my understanding is you can use Valvoline or Pennzoil or the others listed. It is interesting to note that most of the grades listed in the Porche list are 5W-40 not 0W-40. My owner’s manual for my 04 996 C4S has 10W-40 and 15W-50 as recommended grades. Neither of which are approved today. I am aware that Mobil One 15W/50 is not on the approved list yet 5W/50 is. I have not been able to find Mobil One 5W/50 anywhere including the Mobil One web site. For my environment (warm climate) Mobil One 5W/50 would be the “best” oil, I could not find it and settled for the 5W-40. Castrol 10W-40 is not on the approved list although it was referenced for warm climate use. Many would argue, but if the oil is not on the approved list I do not use it. I appreciate the Renntech site it has provided a lot of valuable information.

Jorge

[Loren]

Interesting enough Valvoline is still on the approved list for the Cayenne V6 but not for the rest of Porsche's line. This list changes most often once a year but in some cases more than once per year.

If you have warranty on your car I would suggest it makes sense use only Porsche "approved" oils. That way there can never be any warranty question that you took "proper" care of the car.

If you are out of warranty you can use whatever oil you like.

[SH-GT3]

I just used a rubber mallet on the exhaust...tapped the cats and muffler and headers...got a sound like a marble dropping when I tapped the exhaust and muffler...cat's didnt seem to be making the noise %$? what could this be?

Make sure your 02 sensors are still screwed in tightly.

[grazy]

I just used a rubber mallet on the exhaust...tapped the cats and muffler and headers...got a sound like a marble dropping when I tapped the exhaust and muffler...cat's didnt seem to be making the noise %$? what could this be?

Make sure your 02 sensors are still screwed in tightly.

Thank you...I will check these, but can someone (Lorne?) show me where these are? Thanks again

[SH-GT3]

Basically on top of the cats. I doubt this is the problem, but its worth ckecking.

[grazy]

Thank you...great picture. I doubt it is too...but hoping it's not tensioners (most likely I think)...

[jmj996]

I'm curious if the European spec 996's originally came with the Mobil1 0W-40 recommended as NA spec cars do.

Wish I had read this thread earlier. Found a great deal on Mobil1 0W-40 at a military exchange a few months ago and stocked up on two oil changes worth of oil. But where I live now, I think I should have gone with 5W-40 at a minimum. Only 56k on the engine, so hopefully 0W-40 is fine for now.

[txhokie4life]

I have been having a ticking sound from my 00 since I reinstalled the engine after fixing a cracked head. Recently dropped the engine again to check the lifters. I spoke to Flat 6 and others regarding how to test the lifters. All said that you should be able to slightly compress the little pison on the underside of the lifters, some movement/compression should be there, only a couple of mm's. So when I had my lifters out I did this test and found that about half had some movement and half were "locked down." Based on this I decided to get a set of new lifters. They arrived this morning, brand new in the packages from INA. And much to my surprise there is no movement in any of the new lifters. Now they have never been in the engine with pressurized oil, which is what is supposed to expand them, but I was surprised to find no movement in a brand new set.

Am I to read that new lifter should have no movement and used lifters should not?

confused,

mike

[Dharn55]

Not 100% sure about this. I was told that to test my lifters I should compress them and there should be some movement. On several I had 1.5mm-2mm or so of movement, but several were "locked down," which I was told indicated the were faulty.

Based on this I decided to replace all my lifters, and bought 24 brand new INA lifters. When they arrived I checked them and none had any movement, all apperared to be "locked down." I was surprised to say the least. But the lifters use oil pressure to expand, and these were brand new and have never been pressurized, so I am now assuming that they are good. I put them into my engine and will have it running tomorrow. If the tappet noice is gone I guess I will be happy, but not really sure of how to "test" lifters anymore.

Edited November 14, 2009 by Dharn55

[grazy]

Not 100% sure about this. I was told that to test my lifters I should compress them and there should be some movement. On several I had 1.5mm-2mm or so of movement, but several were "locked down," which I was told indicated the were faulty.

Based on this I decided to replace all my lifters, and bought 24 brand new INA lifters. When they arrived I checked them and none had any movement, all apperared to be "locked down." I was surprised to say the least. But the lifters use oil pressure to expand, and these were brand new and have never been pressurized, so I am now assuming that they are good. I put them into my engine and will have it running tomorrow. If the tappet noice is gone I guess I will be happy, but not really sure of how to "test" lifters anymore.

Were you able to get these installed...and did it solve your problem?