Car Sputtered on start

[0Bosxter0]

I have a 2000 Porsche Boxster with about 62K miles.

Ive had the car on jack stands for about the last two weeks (I had the wheels powder coated and painted the calipers).

While the car was on stands I did two other things, I removed the factory head unit and amp and installed an aftermarket unit. And I replaced the gauge pod with one from a 2000 boxster S as mine had gotten discolored.

Upon starting the car for the first time after getting her back on the ground she sputtered and I though she was going to die... i tapped the gas slightly and she seemed to come to life but there seemed to be a delay from when i hit the gas and the RPM increase. I let her sit and run for a while and she seemed to level out, I thought it was maybe the computers resetting after sitting for so long with no battery. I took the car around the block to test a suspension fix I had just completed and the car seemed OK.

I pulled in the driveway and let her idle for a bit but the idle wasnt right, she seemed to be go up to about 1K then come back down. I let her sit and idle like this for a few minutes and she seemed to be OK. It seemed like she was sucking in a LOT of air from the passenger side air duct though.

I let her run for a few minutes and when I got back in the "engine" light was on?! That scared the hell out of me so I immediately shut down. I let her sit for about a minute then started her back up to pull into the garage. The check engine light was no longer on and she seemed to run OK for the 13 feet into the garage?!

I haven't run her since.

**What could have caused this??

***Id be surprised it was the after market radio unless the amp is pulling to much power from the battery?

***Also would the Boxster S gauge pod that I installed have this effect on the car? Ive read the car needs to re-"learn" some of the electronics when their replaced, is this true with the pod?

[Loren]

If the battery is disconnected then the DME will need to relearn idle and your driving style - that is normal.

As far the CEL - you need to have the fault code(s) read. There are several hundred things that can cause a CEL.

[0Bosxter0]

If the battery is disconnected then the DME will need to relearn idle and your driving style - that is normal.

As far the CEL - you need to have the fault code(s) read. There are several hundred things that can cause a CEL.

Have you ever heard of a gauge swap or headunit swap causing a CEL?

[Loren]

CELs are triggered by emission related non-compliance events - so no, that should not have any effect.

[kbrandsma]

If the CEL isn't flashing you are alright. Take it for a drive to reset the DME. Check the CEL code and post, then reset and see if it comes back. You can check the CEL with a loaner scan tool from Autozone but to reset you will need a Durametric tool or PIWIS Tester or dealer PST2 scan.

[0Bosxter0]

If the CEL isn't flashing you are alright. Take it for a drive to reset the DME. Check the CEL code and post, then reset and see if it comes back. You can check the CEL with a loaner scan tool from Autozone but to reset you will need a Durametric tool or PIWIS Tester or dealer PST2 scan.

Its not flashing, its just solid... and its on again.

OK, ill go rent one from autozone and see what codes it throws at me...

[0Bosxter0]

If the CEL isn't flashing you are alright. Take it for a drive to reset the DME. Check the CEL code and post, then reset and see if it comes back. You can check the CEL with a loaner scan tool from Autozone but to reset you will need a Durametric tool or PIWIS Tester or dealer PST2 scan.

Also, sorry for my ignorance... Can you tell me where I need to plug this in?

[wvicary]

The ALDL connector is located on the right side of the cabin near the steering column under the dash area.

[pk2]

Lorens right I'm sure but, a "hunting" at idle can be a classic sign of an air leak, If your hereing a sucking I'd certainly have a look. Just about anything that can leak is on the top of the engine. Quite a coincidence though.

Regards,pk

Edited October 31, 2009 by pk2

[0Bosxter0]

OK, just got back from Auto Zone... Oddly the CEL went off on my way home and has yet to re-appear even after a stop at the grocery store on the way.

The code that I got back was P0650, Failed MIL bulb or ECM failure is what their readout said. Odd that the light went out and hasn't re-emerged?

The car seemed to run fine though, steady idle, no hesitation...

[Loren]

P0650 Check Engine Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) – Open Circuit

Fault area

– Break in wiring

– Short to ground

– Short to B+ (+12 volts)

I would wait and see if it reoccurs.

[0Bosxter0]

P0650 Check Engine Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) – Open Circuit

Fault area

– Break in wiring

– Short to ground

– Short to B+ (+12 volts)

I would wait and see if it reoccurs.

Thanks Loren. Hopefully I've seen the last of it. If it reappears ill post again!

Thanks all..

[KevinH90]

Do you think it would be worthwhile to double-check the connection to the gauge cluster?

[0Bosxter0]

So I took the car to get a haircut today and the CEL came back on and stayed on...??

I'm not quite sure how the CEL light works. Does it activate when there is a problem then turn off when the problem is remedied, or does it stay on once activated and stay on until reset by a service shop?

I think it has to be one of two things, either the new gauge pod is somehow setting it off, or maybe there is a wiring mix-up with the new head unit I installed.

In regards to the gauge pod, the light behind the digital MPH readout had burned out, I simplly replaced it with one from the original pod. I cant imagine that would set off a CEL??

In regards to the head unit, I ordered a wire harness from Crutchfield. I read on their website that the orange and red wire needed to be switched for the Boxster, I also confirmed this with a Crutchfield representative on the telephone. The instructions that came with the wire harness had a list of vehicles that required this red/orange switch however the Boxster was not one of them...??? Could this cause this P0650 error?

Respectfully,

Ben

[wvicary]

The check engine light is triggered by the setting of engine emission codes. Codes have different parameters for being set and then triggering the check engine light. If the fault parameters are not met in the next drive cycle the check engine light may be extinguished.

Get the codes read again. Double check all the connections as they connectors are easy to damage.

[0Bosxter0]

So then does the CEL "reset" itself each time I turn the car off?

[Loren]

So then does the CEL "reset" itself each time I turn the car off?

No, the CEL is reset by the DME based on the fault and the number of "drive cycles" that have run without further faults. Some of these criteria are EPA defined for emissions reasons.

[0Bosxter0]

So then does the CEL "reset" itself each time I turn the car off?

No, the CEL is reset by the DME based on the fault and the number of "drive cycles" that have run without further faults. Some of these criteria are EPA defined for emissions reasons.

ok...

Just so I understand...

Then each fault has its own parameters and is reset by a number of "drive cycles" specific to that fault?

So I would assume a less significant fault would be reset by fewer drive cycles?

Additionally I did a quick search on the Boxster drive cycle and came up with this...

____________________________________________________________________

Start engine, idle cold for approx. 2 min, 10 secs.

Accelerate to 20-30 MPH, Maintain steady speed for approx 3 min, 15 secs.

Accelerate to 40-60 MPH, Maintain steady speed for approx 15 mins.

Decelerate and come to a stop. Idle in gear for approx 5 mins.

Following the start engine phase the sequence of test conditions may interchange.

routine will be discontinued whenever:

Engine speed exceeds 3000 RPM

Large fluctuations in throttle angle

Road speed exceeds 60 MPH

________________________________________________________________________

I started the car in the garage last night and let it run for 4-5 minutes and the CEL light never came on? I never completed anything close to the drive cycle states above...

Is it possible that some codes don't require a drive cycle and are reset by the fault being remedied/not activated?

Thanks again for the info,

You guys are great!!

[Loren]

I do not know where you got that but a drive cycle may be different depending on the fault. Yes, some faults may not require a drive cycles.

[0Bosxter0]

Loren,

Thanks again!

Ill do some more troubleshooting tonight!

Respectfully,

Ben

[0Bosxter0]

Do you think it would be worthwhile to double-check the connection to the gauge cluster?

Kevin,

From what I can tell the gauge cluster seems OK... Everything is functioning on it.

Im leaning more towards a wiring mixup with the new CD/DVD player I installed. I got conflicting wiring info from Crutchfield and the instructions they sent. Im going to take the car to the gym tonight and leave the CD player faceplate at home and see if I get the CEL.

[0Bosxter0]

Do you think it would be worthwhile to double-check the connection to the gauge cluster?

Kevin,

From what I can tell the gauge cluster seems OK... Everything is functioning on it.

Im leaning more towards a wiring mixup with the new CD/DVD player I installed. I got conflicting wiring info from Crutchfield and the instructions they sent. Im going to take the car to the gym tonight and leave the CD player faceplate at home and see if I get the CEL.

OK, so last night I began de-engineering, everything I had done over the past week in an attempt to figure out what is causing the P0650 CEL light to come on. First I disconnected the head unit thinking it might have been a wire mix-up in the harness - Light stayed on. I plugged the radio back in.

Next I disconnected the power supply from the amp to the battery in the hood, the light went out. I took the car shopping last night and drove into work this morning and the CEL light remains out with the power supply to the amp disconnected. I did a few google searches this morning and have found a few posts from others with other vehicles that a bad ground set off the CEL. I have the sub/amp sitting on the engine cover behind the seats the best place I could find to ground the amp (without drilling into anything) was to the metal engine cover behind the seats...??

Would a bad ground cause the P0650 fault?

Is there a better place to ground the amp? Can I ground using the same ground the radio in the dash uses?

Respeftfully,

Ben