Battery

[JasonStern]

Having spent years in the battery business, I can assure you that every lead acid battery you buy (regardless of brand or manufacture technology) is made from recycled materials, the EPA had mandated that for years. With the average lead acid battery consisting of about 78% lead, all battery manufacturers are required by law to provide the EPA with "cradle to grave" recycling record keeping to assure that the lead is recovered and not allowed to enter the environment. So the battery in your Porsche today, may have been a back up system battery in an airport or the power supply in a fork lift in another life. And batteries made from recycled materials are just as capable and long lived as ones made from virgin materials. If you would like more information on how this works, both the EPA and the BCI (Battery Council International, the association of battery manufacturers) have excellent websites.

Interesting, though surprising. But I guess the bigger question then becomes the variance in battery life expectancy. I just had a ~22 month old Walmart Everlast battery go out on my ZRX last Friday leaving me stranded. And the battery was never deeply discharged throughout its lifetime as I'd rather ride my bikes weekly/bi-weekly in ~30 degree weather than winterize them (which may be related to the failure rate). I imagine that this discrepancy has to come down to quality control. Another replacement Everlast battery would have been $50, but the better warranty battery I ended up purchasing to replace the dead battery cost $90. I know Walmart has purchasing power, but to get the price point down that low, it would seem that some corners had to be cut. Not saying that every Everlast battery is a dud, but if all batteries start from a common recycled basis, and from personal experience, the Everlast batteries don't last as long as other manufacturers in my same cars and motorcycles with similar usage habits, then cutting back on quality control to increase profit margins sounds plausible. From your personal experience, does this sound right? Or did I just spend an extra $40 I didn't need to?

[JFP in PA]

The differnces in battery life and/or performance typically comes down to design and construction methods. All other things being equal, if you reduce the amount of metallic lead in the plate frame, you shorten life and reduce capcity. If you do not wrap the plates well enough, use a quality plate seperation technology, or do not "pack" (how tightly the plates are sandwiched) the cells enough, life is shortened considerably and reduced vibration resistance. So even though you start with basically the same ingredients, you end up with a different product depending upon where you choose to cut corners.

Unfortunately, even though two batteries look the same, and seem to have the same initial specs, what you get long term can, and will, vary significantly based upon the things you cannot see, but do matter..............

Batteries sold through "big box" stores are commodities, even brand named products, and are typically made to the store's specs, which always leads with price. This is the reason you often see a brand named product, but with a weird part number in this setting, the product was manufactured to the store's specs and cannot be found at any other outlet, and most likely will perform differently than a similar model purchased elsewhere.

[Hilux2400]

Since having my 996 I have not been entirely happy with the cranking speed, despite the vehicle being supplied to me in December 2012 with a new battery. This battery was a Bosche S3 70Ah with a CCA of 640Amps. It would not hold a reasonable charge for more than 5 days and frequently overnight without charge the residual voltage would drop to about 12.3 to 12.4v. Barely enough to start the vehicle. This Bosche battery was 278mm in length.

After looking at various options I decided to change and have now fitted an Exide battery from my local Auto Elec firm. It is an 85Ah unit with a CCA of 800Amps. It is slightly longer than the Bosche battery at 315mm, but still fits the battery box. It comes with a 4 year guarantee and cost about £90. It is available on Ebay at about £77.

This Exide battery with a potential CCA of 800Amps gives much higher cranking speed. I have yet to test its longevity without independent charging, but I am sure it will be better than the Bosche S3 70Ah fitted originally.

When fitting the new battery I asked the fitter to plug in a secondary 12v supply to the jump start points to avoid any re-sets being needed.

H

Edited May 1, 2013 by Hilux2400

[Y2K911]

Now that is a great idea to hook up a 2nd 12V battery (if you have one, of course) to the engine-located jump start points to preserve proper 12V voltage and residual current to the car while the frunk battery is replaced, being mindful of the LIVE property of the frunk disconnected leads, if they ever touch each other. Why didn't I think of that.

[JFP in PA]

Now that is a great idea to hook up a 2nd 12V battery (if you have one, of course) to the engine-located jump start points to preserve proper 12V voltage and residual current to the car while the frunk battery is replaced, being mindful of the LIVE property of the frunk disconnected leads, if they ever touch each other. Why didn't I think of that.

I would not be hooking a high amperage battery to do this, beside being dangerous, it is totally unnecessary. There are cheap aftermarket "dongles" that plug into the lighter socket and will maintain the settings using a common 9V household battery (low amperage) that sell for less than $10. Some of the better battery maintainers, notably Ctek, have a setting to do the same thing using the maintainer.

[Ahsai]

I never figure out how those aftermarket dongles work in practice since each interior light is 6 ~ 10W each. The frunk one will be ON for sure since the hood is up when replacing the battery. Now if any other interior lights are ON (e.g., if a door is open), those will easily "short out" the 9v battery?

[JFP in PA]

I never figure out how those aftermarket dongles work in practice since each interior light is 6 ~ 10W each. The frunk one will be ON for sure since the hood is up when replacing the battery. Now if any other interior lights are ON (e.g., if a door is open), those will easily "short out" the 9v battery?

From what I understand, the low voltage of the 9V will barely illuminate the lights. The trick here is to not take all day changing the battery, which should allow the 9V to hold the settings without crapping out in the process. I know the maintainer keep them illuminated, but it has a lot more voltage available.

[Hilux2400]

The auto shop fitters were very careful with the changeover. Having connected the insulated crocodile clips to the jump points they then proceeded to disconnect the main battery. The +ve wire was insulated and held away from the battery by one fitter while the other changed the battery. The bridge supply carried a fuse (important).

I had thought asking for the bridge supply to be put in via the pto socket, but a short on the main terminals could blow the pto fuse. I was impressed with the care taken by the auto elec shop.

H

[Y2K911]

Good point about the fuse, Hilux2400. My enthusiasm is here-to-fore tempered.

Interesting you use the British term: fitter, as in fitter (engine tech) and riggers (airframe tech) widely used in the past in the aircraft industry in Canada. Not so much now!

[britdave]

I know this is an incredibly lengthy thread, and perhaps I missed it somewhere on here ? But with all the different types, ways to mount it, and more, one very important question comes to mind. How many cranking amps do I need for my 2002 911/ 996 ? I have had nothing but low or dead battery issues for months now, and the battery ( dura last) checks out fine ? So I'm removing my alternator and having it bench tested. It puts out more voltage on a cold fresh start, than later on when the engine is warm, or started after a long run. My local alternator shop, says that the heat can do that to a dodgy/ questionable alternator ? Anyhow, what are the required cranking amps, for a 996, thanks Dave. And what do you think about that " heat " issue ?

[logray]

britdave:

Post #126 or thereabouts lists the CCA for various batteries from the factory.

That being said, the more CCA the better.

The cheap dura last batteries I've found to be "barely acceptable" with an optimal/trouble free system. The most expensive duralasts seem to get better reviews.

Yes heat soak can reveal weaknesses.

Other common problems which are well documented here on rt.org and elsewhere:

• [*]Poor ground strap connections/ground strap cable[*]Loose or corroded connections to all primary wires[*]Underperforming component (battery, main leads, starter, regulator, alternator)[*]Corroded or cracked (and in some cases undersized) primary wire on the engine that runs from alternator to starter to jump point[*]Lots of accessories added to car without considering battery/alternator size[*]Use a battery tender, especially if the car is not driven every few days and long enough to recharge the battery

[dseuss]

I asked the quested earlier about 996 factory battery CCA and got this useful reply. Thought I would repost it for the person that just asked it again:

Posted by logray on April 01, 2013 - 08:48 AM in 996 Series (Carrera, Carrera 4, Carrera 4S, Targa)

The 80 AH Moll Part number 58035 battery is Porsche Part Number 99961108020 (the last two digits vary slightly based on series)

The 70 AH Moll Part number 57069 battery is Porsche Part Number 99961107020 (the last two digits vary slightly based on series)

According to the Moll application list available here:

http://www.moll-batt...programm_en.pdf

Part number 58035 provides 640 CCA @ -18C/-0.4F

Part number 57069 provides 570 CCA @ -18C/-0.4F

Oh, meant to add. I replaced my factory Moll with an Interstate Mega-Tron Plus (part number MTP-48/H6) with 730 CCA and the 996 starts much stronger than with the Moll. The extra CCA was really worth it. Price of the Interstate is $150-180 depending on where you get it.

[JFP in PA]

I know this is an incredibly lengthy thread, and perhaps I missed it somewhere on here ? But with all the different types, ways to mount it, and more, one very important question comes to mind. How many cranking amps do I need for my 2002 911/ 996 ? I have had nothing but low or dead battery issues for months now, and the battery ( dura last) checks out fine ? So I'm removing my alternator and having it bench tested. It puts out more voltage on a cold fresh start, than later on when the engine is warm, or started after a long run. My local alternator shop, says that the heat can do that to a dodgy/ questionable alternator ? Anyhow, what are the required cranking amps, for a 996, thanks Dave. And what do you think about that " heat " issue ?

Moe often than not, problems associated with heat are cable related rather than battery or alternator (in fact, the battery actually becomes more powerful with heat). Usually, loose cable ends, and/or high resistance in the cables from internal corrosion, cause poor cranking or low voltage when hot problems. 996's are infamous for this, and I believe there is a TSB about updated cables to address this specific issue. Not an expensive fix, but requires a bit of time due to how the cables are routed.

Heat can also impact the voltage regulator if it is already weak. Fortunately, the regulator is a $40-50 item (get it from VW or online rather than the dealer) and an easy swap with alternator already out. You could have your alternator shop test the entire system and replace what is required as well.

We prefer the highest CCA you can throw at the car, simply because it controls how the car will spin over, particularly in the cold. Our standard recommendation for CCA is the 800 amp Optima's.

[britdave]

Thanks guys ! Anyone where this TSB or a video is on how to replace/ or update these infamous cables ? Where they are located, if its easy, difficult , etc. I don't think alternator shops do this ? I'm willing to give it a shot though, if I could get some tutelage on the issue ? Thanks Dave

[JFP in PA]

Thanks guys ! Anyone where this TSB or a video is on how to replace/ or update these infamous cables ? Where they are located, if its easy, difficult , etc. I don't think alternator shops do this ? I'm willing to give it a shot though, if I could get some tutelage on the issue ? Thanks Dave

No video that I am aware of, a lot of the TSB's are available at the top of the page to contributing members under the "DIY Tools" tab. The TSB will tell you what it is all about and the new part numbers for the replacement parts, but it is not a tutorial on how to do it.

[Hilux2400]

As I said above, I fitted an Exide 85Ah battery with a CCA of 800 Amps. It replaced a Bosche 70Ah battery with a CCA of 640 Amps. It has made a noticeable difference by increasing the cranking speed.

I decided to go for a CCA of 800 Amps in line with other recommendations on this thread.

The auto shop checked my Bosche CCA640 Amp battery and said it was OK. However, having fitted the bigger battery it is clear to me that these vehicles need at least a CCA of 800 Amps to get a decent cranking speed and leave sufficient residual voltage to provide an ignition spark.

H

[Long Islander]

But I have a 1997 Boxster and all 4 holes in my battery tray are threaded, as are other 1997 Boxsters I have looked at. I would have to use the last hole for a 49 because it is so long. On the 1998 up Boxsters and 996s I have looked at the 4th hole was not threaded, for some strange reason.

I wanted to install a Duralast H8 battery in my 2001 996, but to do that I would need to bolt the hold-down clamp onto the fourth hole in the battery tray. However, as Tool Pants noted, the clamp fourth hole in the battery tray is not threaded on 996s. I wasn't aware that 1997 Boxsters had a threaded fourth hole. Does anyone know if those battery trays are still made, or do they just make replacement trays with just three holes threaded?

[Ahsai]

But I have a 1997 Boxster and all 4 holes in my battery tray are threaded, as are other 1997 Boxsters I have looked at. I would have to use the last hole for a 49 because it is so long. On the 1998 up Boxsters and 996s I have looked at the 4th hole was not threaded, for some strange reason.

I wanted to install a Duralast H8 battery in my 2001 996, but to do that I would need to bolt the hold-down clamp onto the fourth hole in the battery tray. However, as Tool Pants noted, the clamp fourth hole in the battery tray is not threaded on 996s. I wasn't aware that 1997 Boxsters had a threaded fourth hole. Does anyone know if those battery trays are still made, or do they just make replacement trays with just three holes threaded?

Have you considered the Autozone Duralast Platinum AGM direct replacement? http://www.autozone.....9458_351727_0_The spec looks pretty good: 94R/H7 size (12+ in), 800 CCA, 140 min reserved capacity, 51lb, $180

Comparable to Optima at a lower cost.

At 12+ inch, it should fit w/o a problem.

[Long Islander]

But I have a 1997 Boxster and all 4 holes in my battery tray are threaded, as are other 1997 Boxsters I have looked at. I would have to use the last hole for a 49 because it is so long. On the 1998 up Boxsters and 996s I have looked at the 4th hole was not threaded, for some strange reason.

I wanted to install a Duralast H8 battery in my 2001 996, but to do that I would need to bolt the hold-down clamp onto the fourth hole in the battery tray. However, as Tool Pants noted, the clamp fourth hole in the battery tray is not threaded on 996s. I wasn't aware that 1997 Boxsters had a threaded fourth hole. Does anyone know if those battery trays are still made, or do they just make replacement trays with just three holes threaded?

Have you considered the Autozone Duralast Platinum AGM direct replacement? http://www.autozone.....9458_351727_0_The spec looks pretty good: 94R/H7 size (12+ in), 800 CCA, 140 min reserved capacity, 51lb, $180

Comparable to Optima at a lower cost.

At 12+ inch, it should fit w/o a problem.

Actually, I was in a bit of a rush to replace my battery last October (just before Hurricane Sandy hit), so that is exactly what I put in. You're right, it was a very easy direct replacement, and a great battery. But if I could get the H8, I might use the H7 in another car. I checked the price on a 996 battery tray and it was >$100, so I don't think I would buy a Boxster battery just to get the threaded 4th hole.

[Loren]

I'll update my battery recommendations here...

Seems Autozone has stopping supplying their type 48 (H6) and type 49 (H8) batteries with vent tube connections. Even had the manager call around and no one (at Autozone) knew anything about batteries needing vent lines when they are in the car or trunk. Amazing...

So the current batteries that you can get with a vent fitting (and a plug so you can put the vent on either side)...

Duracell Procell Battery H6 -- about $122 (today)

Duracell Procell Battery H8 -- about $140 (today)

If your Duracell battery comes without the vent fittings - ask for them!

Both are available from Batteries Plus and they will also install for free.

BTW... the Duracell Procell batteries at Batteries Plus look just like the Duralast Gold batteries at Autozone -- except the names are different (and of course Autozone seems clueless about the vent fittings).

Same supplier (perhaps Johnson Controls?) I reckon.

[shark715]

Had a dead battery today on my '04 C4S cab. I kick myself for not realizing that the old battery was 7 years old and proactively replacing it before now, especially given all the time the car sits unused in the garage. I know better.

I have always made it a habit to go with the highest capacity battery that will fit in all my cars, and I decided to go with a Group 49. I found a 900 CCA Duracell that had a July date code at Sam's Club for $106.87. I's made by Deka in Pennsylvania. Sam's also had a AGM battery for $150 that was 50 CCA less, but I'm not convinced it's worth it.

I had no reasonable way to avoid disconnecting the power to the car's systems, and I figured if memory was going to be lost it had already happened as the old battery was showing only about 8.5 volts. Guess I got lucky...there was no battery in the car for a good hour while I used a M14 tap to thread the last hole in the battery tray plus enlarging the hole in the battery hold down bracket..but I see no problems..radio did not lose the presets, the one touch feature on the passenger window did not work for a few window cycles, but then it seemed to correct itself. The only other things I noticed was that the tripometer reset to zero, and the engine ran rough for a few minutes. I assume that was the engine computer "re-learning". The fuel gauge shows the same 3/4 tank level that it showed before the battery failed.

[Paul Grainger]

JFP - You obviously know a lot about lead acid batteries - do you mind me asking what your involvement with the industry is?

I'm involved in the battery industry, I like to make connections with others in the same business.

Cheers

Paul G

[JFP in PA]

JFP - You obviously know a lot about lead acid batteries - do you mind me asking what your involvement with the industry is?

I'm involved in the battery industry, I like to make connections with others in the same business.

Cheers

Paul G

For a lot of years, I was a senior executive with what was then one of the major players ($1B+ NYSE listed firm) in the lead acid battery business over here, before I started my own business.

[Paul Grainger]

I'm the chief engineer at a plant in the UK that recycles lead acid batteries. We recycle about 110,000 tonnes of batteries a year and supply various alloys back into the battery industry. We also recycle polypropylene and produce synthetic gypsum from battery acid. We are part of a group that is (at this time) the largest recycler of batteries in the world - we have lead smelting plants all over Europe / South Africa and three in the USA.

Following the closure of all car battery manufacturing in the UK, we export most of the lead that we produce to the battery manufacturers in eastern europe and the far east.

Paul G

[JFP in PA]

I'm the chief engineer at a plant in the UK that recycles lead acid batteries. We recycle about 110,000 tonnes of batteries a year and supply various alloys back into the battery industry. We also recycle polypropylene and produce synthetic gypsum from battery acid. We are part of a group that is (at this time) the largest recycler of batteries in the world - we have lead smelting plants all over Europe / South Africa and three in the USA.

Following the closure of all car battery manufacturing in the UK, we export most of the lead that we produce to the battery manufacturers in eastern europe and the far east.

Paul G

Sounds like Hawker...........