Battery

[logray]

The 80 AH Moll Part number 58035 battery is Porsche Part Number 99961108020 (the last two digits vary slightly based on series)The 70 AH Moll Part number 57069 battery is Porsche Part Number 99961107020 (the last two digits vary slightly based on series)According to the Moll application list available here:http://www.moll-batterien.de/downloads/MOLL_Lieferprogramm_en.pdfPart number 58035 provides 640 CCA @ -18C/-0.4FPart number 57069 provides 570 CCA @ -18C/-0.4F

Edited April 1, 2013 by logray

[JFP in PA]

Hi Loren, actually I did read through the Battery thread before I made the first post. (It is quite simple to do, search on CCA in the thread.) Perhaps you should take the time to read through the thread, too. Nowhere in it does anyone state the CCA of the factory battery. (There are references to replacement battery CCA ratings for other manufacturers than Porsche.) Since my question wasn't answered there, and since the thread had not been posted to in years, I started a new thread after reaching the reasonable conclusion that the thread is dormant. Nothing in the forum rules prohibits that. I only posted it a second time, in the Battery thread, when you asked me to. Then when I complied, you deleted it! Ha ha, Catch 22 if there ever was one. Well done. You got me. I bet you block when faster guys come up to lap you too. But the question is this, what is the CCA of a factory Porsche battery for a 2002 911 Targa? Do you know the answer to that? If you don't (and it is not 70-80 AH as you suggested), then how about letting the community here actually read my posts so if some other folks know they can help me out. Does that sound like a plan?

What we have here is problem of mixed terms, a battery has both a CCA (cold cranking amperage) rating, and a AH or amp hour rating; they are different values determined in separate tests on the same battery:CCA or cold cranking amps is how they measure the number of amps that a battery should be able to deliver at zero degrees F for thirty seconds and not dropping lower than 7.2 volts. A battery needs to get a high CCA rating, no matter the car battery size. The higher the CCA rating, the easier it will be to start up a vehicle in very cold weather.An amp hour (AH) is a rating usually found on deep cycle batteries. The standard rating is an Amp rating taken for 20 Hours. What this means, say for a 100 AH rated battery is this: Draw from the battery for 20 hours and it will provide a total of 100 amp-hours. That translates to about 5 amps an hour. 5 x 20 = 100. However, it's very important to know that the total time of discharge and load applied is not a linear relationship. As your load increases, your realized capacity decreases. This means if you discharged that same 100 AH battery by a 100 amp load, it will not give you one hour of runtime. On the contrary, the perceived capacity of the battery will be that of 64 Amp Hours.I hope that clears up your conundrum.

[dseuss]

Thanks Logray and JFP for the helpful responses.

[Ahsai]

Has anyone tried the Autozone Duralast Platinum AGM direct replacement? http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...9458_351727_0_The spec looks pretty good: 94R/H7 size (12+ in), 800 CCA, 140 min reserved capacity, 51lb, $180

Comparable to Optima at a lower cost.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Ahsai

[JFP in PA]

Has anyone tried the Autozone Duralast Platinum AGM direct replacement? http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...9458_351727_0_The spec looks pretty good: 94R/H7 size (12+ in), 800 CCA, 140 min reserved capacity, 51lb, $180

Comparable to Optima at a lower cost.

Actually, that price is slightly higher than the Optima where I am ($150-160, but battery pricing is geographically sensitive), and the Optima weighs in at 37.9 lbs. Only major advantage the Duralast has is that it is a direct fit.

[Ahsai]

Thanks for the info, JFP. Plug-and-play is surely a big plus for me.

[JFP in PA]

Retrofitting an Optima is no big deal if you use a commercially available kit, it becomes a 5 min. install.

One thing I would like to know more about with the Duralast is how do they deal with the plate shedding issue that tends to shorten these battery's life spans (Optima uses a patented spiral winding process, hence the "six pack" appearance and vibration resistance claims).

[Ahsai]

Retrofitting an Optima is no big deal if you use a commercially available kit, it becomes a 5 min. install.

One thing I would like to know more about with the Duralast is how do they deal with the plate shedding issue that tends to shorten these battery's life spans (Optima uses a patented spiral winding process, hence the "six pack" appearance and vibration resistance claims).

Someone said they are manufactured by Johnson controls. If true, may be it's using the PowerFrame tech

http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/content/us/en/about/our_company/featured_stories/agm-battery-technology.html

http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/content/us/en/about/our_company/featured_stories/powerframe.html

[JFP in PA]

PowerFrame is a grid alloy technology, not a lead oxide retention system. Johnson controls, by-the-by, also owns Optima.

[dseuss]

I am considering a PC1220 from Odyssey. I talked to them and that is the one they recommend for my 2002 911 Targa (See http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm for specs) It has 680 CCA and 70 WH for total capacity. The higher CCA is a real benefit if the car is not driven every day. My problem is I only put a couple of thousand miles on the car every year and the batteries keep dying. The Odyssey is designed for vintage use and has almost no discharge if disconnected (which I plan to do with a kill switch).

[Ahsai]

I am considering a PC1220 from Odyssey. I talked to them and that is the one they recommend for my 2002 911 Targa (See http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm for specs) It has 680 CCA and 70 WH for total capacity. The higher CCA is a real benefit if the car is not driven every day. My problem is I only put a couple of thousand miles on the car every year and the batteries keep dying. The Odyssey is designed for vintage use and has almost no discharge if disconnected (which I plan to do with a kill switch).

$320??? :eek: 680 CCA is not high though. A regular size 48 has 700 CCA.

[JFP in PA]

I am considering a PC1220 from Odyssey. I talked to them and that is the one they recommend for my 2002 911 Targa (See http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm for specs) It has 680 CCA and 70 WH for total capacity. The higher CCA is a real benefit if the car is not driven every day. My problem is I only put a couple of thousand miles on the car every year and the batteries keep dying. The Odyssey is designed for vintage use and has almost no discharge if disconnected (which I plan to do with a kill switch).

That is a lot of money for a simple car battery. You would be well away to buy a regular battery and use a quality maintainer.

[JasonStern]

Purchased a 94R from WalMart for $77.00 for my 2001 C4 Cab, direct replacement for the Porsche battery that was in the car. The price was half of Auto Zone and other auto part stores. The battery is made by Johnson Controls with the side vent, same as the Moll battery from Porsche. Three years full replacement, then 84 months prorated. How do you beat that? :renntech:

Second hand warning - one of the team leads at my work purchased an Everlast (or whatever the Walmart store brand) battery. It failed within a few months, and he was able to get a replacement no problem. But then that one too also failed within the warranty period, and the store refused to issue him a replacement as they claim that they only offer one replacement per purchase.

I have never personally been burned in that respect, but I have run the Walmart store brand batteries in my motorcycles before, and while I haven't had one die during the warranty period, their ability to hold a strong charge for an extended period of time versus the OEM batteries has me concerned about their long term longevity. More reason to ride my bikes more to keep them always near full charge, I guess.

[logray]

Hah! That's very interesting!

A battery that I purchased at WalMart was made by the same company (Johnson Controls) that made the battery sold at Autozone and CostCo. The Walmart JC battery I had lasted longer than the red top at Autozone.

I guess it depends on what brand you select, and how much you pay...

Thus far, only the Moll battery has proven to be the ultimate champion. When I bought my 1999 996 in 2007, it still had the original battery.

Maybe next time I will buy a Trojan.

[JFP in PA]

For reference purposes, after a major shake out in the lead acid battery business, and a major clamp down by the EPA on manufacturing sites, there are now only a very small number of companies in the US market that make them. Johnson Controls is the biggest, followed by East Penn (Deka), and then Interstate. They all "private lable" for store and OEM brands, but those products are made to the buyer's specs (read keep the costs low). So two batteries with different brand names of the same model size, but from one manufacturer can be totally different in performance and life expectancy. In short, this makes the selection process confusing at best.

[JasonStern]

A battery that I purchased at WalMart was made by the same company (Johnson Controls) that made the battery sold at Autozone and CostCo. The Walmart JC battery I had lasted longer than the red top at Autozone.

Again, all I can speak for from personal experience are the motorcycle batteries from Walmart. And those require manually filling the battery acid and, at least a while back, used to be made from recycled cores. I have no problem if the core is recycled so long as the lead-acid cells are replaced. I mostly fear that when a battery manufacturer engages in a business contract with a corporation like Walmart, they do so while working towards agreeing to a certain price point. Likewise, retail outlets like Walmart have an increased potential for people to try out a battery and then return it if a battery replacement fails to alleviate the problem. This leads to reduced lifetimes of batteries that were ran hard during automobile diagnosis, as well as a higher potential for returned batteries to make their way back onto consumer shelves.

As far as personal experience goes, I run Bosch batteries in my 996, and did in my 986 and Miata, While I didn't keep my 986 or Miata outside the extended warranty period, I also never had any problems with the replacement Bosch batteries. They were also price comparable to other budget battery brands. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if other battery vendors offer better value with respect to both the longevity and performance of their products.

Just be glad you do not own a modern Mercedes. Their ECUs keep track of the lifetime of the battery, so if you replace it yourself without using proprietary Mercedes software to update the ECU of the replacement, it will affect how the battery is recharged, thus inadvertently reducing the battery's lifetime.

[JFP in PA]

A battery that I purchased at WalMart was made by the same company (Johnson Controls) that made the battery sold at Autozone and CostCo. The Walmart JC battery I had lasted longer than the red top at Autozone.

Again, all I can speak for from personal experience are the motorcycle batteries from Walmart. And those require manually filling the battery acid and, at least a while back, used to be made from recycled cores. I have no problem if the core is recycled so long as the lead-acid cells are replaced. I mostly fear that when a battery manufacturer engages in a business contract with a corporation like Walmart, they do so while working towards agreeing to a certain price point. Likewise, retail outlets like Walmart have an increased potential for people to try out a battery and then return it if a battery replacement fails to alleviate the problem. This leads to reduced lifetimes of batteries that were ran hard during automobile diagnosis, as well as a higher potential for returned batteries to make their way back onto consumer shelves.

As far as personal experience goes, I run Bosch batteries in my 996, and did in my 986 and Miata, While I didn't keep my 986 or Miata outside the extended warranty period, I also never had any problems with the replacement Bosch batteries. They were also price comparable to other budget battery brands. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if other battery vendors offer better value with respect to both the longevity and performance of their products.

Just be glad you do not own a modern Mercedes. Their ECUs keep track of the lifetime of the battery, so if you replace it yourself without using proprietary Mercedes software to update the ECU of the replacement, it will affect how the battery is recharged, thus inadvertently reducing the battery's lifetime.

Having spent years in the battery business, I can assure you that every lead acid battery you buy (regardless of brand or manufacture technology) is made from recycled materials, the EPA had mandated that for years. With the average lead acid battery consisting of about 78% lead, all battery manufacturers are required by law to provide the EPA with "cradle to grave" recycling record keeping to assure that the lead is recovered and not allowed to enter the environment. So the battery in your Porsche today, may have been a back up system battery in an airport or the power supply in a fork lift in another life. And batteries made from recycled materials are just as capable and long lived as ones made from virgin materials. If you would like more information on how this works, both the EPA and the BCI (Battery Council International, the association of battery manufacturers) have excellent websites.

[Wausau 911]

I have an '04 996 coupe and I guess its time for a new battery. When replacing the battery do I need to keep power somehow to the vehicle to avoid problems with the information stored in the computer system. An if so, can I use a battery charger to keep some power to the car as I place the new one in? Anything else I should be aware of?

Thx for replies.

[JFP in PA]

Several maintainers, and particularly those from Ctek, have a specific setting to do this. but while conducting the swap, you need to remember that the cable leads are still hot when disconnected and do not short or ground them.

[Wausau 911]

I'll be using a Schumacher 6v/12v auto voltage regulator @ 1.5 Amp. I'll be connecting it up to the posts in the engine compartment. Then remove & replace battery. Is this a correct process?

[JFP in PA]

It cannot be connected to the battery posts as the charge would stay with the battery, not the car; it either has to be connected via the cigarette lighter plug (preferred method), or on the cable ends.

[Ahsai]

Also, whether it works depends on the charger too. Chargers are so smart these days not sure they will output any (or the correct) voltage if it detects the battery is not there...

[JFP in PA]

Also, whether it works depends on the charger too. Chargers are so smart these days not sure they will output any (or the correct) voltage if it detects the battery is not there...

Which is why I suggested using one of the several makes that has the feature, like the Ctek 7002. In a pinch, there is a $10 "dongle" with a cig lighter end on one side and the two snaps for a 9 V battery on the other that works as well.

[Wausau 911]

Thx for all the information - last question - is it really necessary to have some power going to the car when replacing the battery? The owners manual doesn't address this - just don't want to loose the computer information

[JFP in PA]

Thx for all the information - last question - is it really necessary to have some power going to the car when replacing the battery? The owners manual doesn't address this - just don't want to loose the computer information

It is not critical, but it does make things easier as you don't lose everything from the radio presets, window auto up/down stops, to the DME's learned settings. On some models, you would even lose the gas tank calibration settings, so you would have to empty the tank, refill it with a known amount of fuel and then reprogram the gas gauge so it was correct, which can be a major pain in the butt not to mention very time consuming. Do you have to retain power: No; but it is easier if you do.