Serious 2000 Boxster problem...please help!

[crwarren11]

Sorry guys, but there really hasn't been any resolution to the problem yet. I've run into some other issues which have made it even more difficult to diagnose, mainly something with the transmission. Gears grinding, smoking in first gear, rough shifting throughout sequence. I have no idea how this could be related to the other issues, but it prevents me from doing any test drives for now. Still frustrated to no end. My car ran perfectly for the previous 9+ years of driving before this nightmare. Now everything seems to be going wrong. After discussing with some attorney friends it became apparent that the cost to pursue would be more than the cost to get a rebuilt engine. In addition, it is very difficult to do much, if any, forensics on this kind of thing to determine what actually caused the problem. Obviously, basic intuition suggests that a car running perfectly for 9+ years that then has a catastrophic failure within 20 miles of a shop doing work on it points to something the shop did wrong, but that's just not how our legal system works!

In the mean time, I continue to tinker with what I can, trying to narrow down possible causes for continued problems, one at a time. The good news at this point is that the engine actually seems to be running very smoothly, but still finding oil in the coolant, and no coolant in the oil that I can see. Much of this could still be due to residual oil in the coolant lines, even though I have flushed it repeatedly.

[al83s]

Sorry to hear about your issues.

My car had similar issues last week, it also has 89k miles.

High-pitched whine is likely the waterpump bearing going out, or the tensioner/roller.

Waterpump is a wear item and so are rollers, its not uncommon for it to fail on other porsche models as well, as a matter of fact most 928 owners replace their water pumps every time they replace their timing belt (~4-5 years) . Neither is the failing oil cooler,it also fails on 928s causing oil/water to mix.

Deffinately replace the oil cooler, since it is not going to fix itself even if you see less and less oil in the coolant every time you flush. Im sure you already know, but when flushing - run your engine till it warms up and thermostat opens, so you replace as much of it as you can. Dont worry about using distilled water for flushing, garden hose will work just fine (it wont be in the engine long enough to cause the corrosion of your aluminum block) Just make sure that your final fill is correct.

I was also pissed off that my car has developed all the issues lately (rare missfire, flashing CEL every week or so, clutch is starting to slip, CV boots torn, waterpump started to whine), but at the end of the day replacing few bolt-on items on a 9 years old car beats taking a depreciation hit every time you buy a new one). Think of it as a 90k miles service and do it yourself (I always do, because at least if I f*** something up - it my fault and I learn something new).

Meawhile, have a beer, download a repair manual for your car, buy parts and start crossing the possible items off your list.

Just my 2 cents.

Alex

[ARModen]

I didn't see it listed anywhere in the rest of the thread, but I'd consider having the atf and atf cooler checked. You seem to be having an issue with your transmission and your cooling system, not the engine. I'm pretty sure there is an oil cooler on the tiptronic to cool the ATF. It's PN 996.017.307.1. I had an issue where my atf got low which resulted in some very poor shifts and some odd behavior when idling. It's possible the whirring/whining/grinding sound was the transmission and the shop really didn't fix anything. Which is why they know they didn't break it!

[crwarren11]

I know you've all been eagerly waiting on the edge of your seats for an update on this. After a new baby and some other life changes I have finally been able to dedicate some much needed time to these issues. I have been fortunate enough to have a friend who has donated his fully stocked garage for my temporary use. Going on the suggestions of a few in this forum I got a new engine oil cooler and replaced it this weekend. Much to my relief there was no evidence of any coolant in the engine oil that came out of the oil cooler. Over the past couple days we drained all the coolant which had some, but not a lot of oil in it. As we emptied into our milk jugs for disposal the oil clearly separated from the coolant and it was not too much. The other thing I ordered were all the necessary parts to do a complete ATF flush, to try to resolve the shifting issues. We opened the drain plug and outcame the murky coffee mocha blend of oil and coolant that I've seen venting on occassion. As of now we are convinced that the intermix issue is coming from the ATF cooler, so I will look to purchase that part within the next week. It appears to be special order so it may be a couple of weeks until we can work on it again. I will also likely change the ATF cooler control valve which also sound like it is a source of many atf issues, so while we're there I figure it's worth the extra $20.

A couple of questions for you guys: are there any other potential sources you can think of other than the ATF cooler which would cause the intermix ONLY in the ATF oil (i.e. not in the engine oil)?

- Does anyone know any good ways to flush the transmission? We have left the pan off and the filter out and the intermix continues to drip out, even after many attempts to wipe down the bottom of the transmission. So hoping that by the time the new atf cooler gets here that enough of that gunk will be gone, but it would be great to flush it as much as possible.

Next steps: replace atf cooler; complete atf service; flush/refill coolant; engine oil service.

Anything else to recommend while we're doing these jobs?

As always, thanks for everyone's help and input on this. It has been a great help!!

[crwarren11]

One more question: is it ok to run the engine with the ATF pan and filter removed (trying to get some distilled water into the coolant system to begin the flushing process)?

[JFP in PA]

One more question: is it ok to run the engine with the ATF pan and filter removed (trying to get some distilled water into the coolant system to begin the flushing process)?

Absolutely not!

[crwarren11]

Project completed! Replaced both the engine oil cooler and the ATF cooler. Completed the ATF service, flushed/replaced the coolant, completed engine oil/filter change (oil was completely clean of any intermix). There will still be some ongoing work related to these issues as the ATF intermix will still be present in both the cooling system and the transmission since there was no good way to really flush it out. So, planning to do another couple rounds of ATF and coolant service just to remove even more of the intermix, but for now the car is running and shifting great. Got it smogged this morning and it's back on the road after almost two years to the day of being out of service! Many thanks again to those of you who helped.

There was no obvious signs of an issue with the ATF cooler externally, so other than having it pressure tested for internal leaks, there isn't a good way for us to evaluate if that was definitely the problem. Even though all signs point to that.

As a sanity check, are there any other potential sources of intermix in the ATF other than the cooler?

[JFP in PA]

The cooler is the only place coolant is anywhere near the fluid, it has to be the source.

[crwarren11]

I have driven the car now ~3k miles since the work above. Replaced the ATF two additional times to help further remove the contaminated ATF which was still in the torque converter over the past couple of months. The car was behaving normal until yesterday...drove in the morning perfect, drove to lunch perfect, left lunch, the car wouldn't get into gear. Got about 100ft onto the street and the lights started flashing on the gear selector gauge (I think it was back and forth b/w P and M). Had the car towed home and drained the ATF again, still contaminated with water from the initial problem, but not as bad as previous ATF changes I mentioned. Replaced with new ATF and car still won't get into gear. A couple of "odd" things from this experience compared to the previous issues: immediate issue with it not getting into gear (i.e. no gradual indication of something wrong); previously, anytime I changed the ATF it would immediately shift perfectly again, but not this time. Any ideas?

[grtc68]

I'm sorry to say (hope I'm wrong) that I think your xmission is toast. I have a tip and the tell tale signs were erradic shifting and loss of power immediately after it went. I just had enough torque left from the converter to push me across the intersection and safely towards the curb. I was fortunate to have a cop right behind me to help me push my Boxster completely off the drive path and put flares out while I waited for the tow truck. The engine runs great, but no gears available. A rebuilt xmission will cost less, if you know a reputable rebuilder, else, look at $6k-$11k for a Porsche remanufactured one; Sunset is the cheapest OEM source. I found a reputable rebuilder for $3.5k that gives a 2 yr warrantee; make sure the rebuilder is able to buy OEM xmission part, i.e. ZF. If the torque converter is not toast then your rebuild will cost less.

While the xmission was out, my new Indy decided to check out the IMS, and sure 'nough that was on it's way out, so I'm glad the engine was able to be saved prior to the IMS failure; I was shown the old IMS and they also took video when they took it out; bearings were still intact, but you can see the seal was getting ready to give way. I had them replace the old IMS with one of Jake Raby's IMS retro fit, since the tranny was already out - made perfect sense.

All the best to you and your p-car. I had no issues for about 123k-miles until the tranny went, aside from normal maintenance. I drive the car like I stole it everyday, so that probably didn't help, but it's a Porsche!

[crwarren11]

That is, of course, my fear! I made what may be considered a bit of progress yesterday. I unplugged the battery overnight to reset the ECU. Got some pretty good power in Drive, both in auto and M, but still limited power in R. Based on some of the other posts I've read regarding similar issues, I'm thinking (hoping) it may be an issue with the valves or pump. It acts like it's running dry, but I changed the ATF immediately after the tow (before resetting ECU), got ~4L out and put ~4L in, so it doesn't make sense that it is low, unless some stuck valves or something were causing the new ATF not to be circulated properly. I hope to recheck ATF levels tonight or very soon and see if it is somehow low. I have a Durametric on the way, too, even though I understand it may not tell me the transmission codes, I'm hoping it will tell me something worthwhile. Past that, if no progress, will drop the transmission and see if I can make any sense out of it...but that's a very long term project that I'm hoping to avoid!

[crwarren11]

Resolved. See post at http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/41366-tiptronic-problem-questions/page-2