Serious 2000 Boxster problem...please help!

[crwarren11]

I have a 2000 Boxster with 89000 miles on it. I am the only owner, only driver, and have been very good about keeping up with it. I do some DIY here and there, but nothing major. I probably would have done the belt work I mention below but I thought it was going to be quick and easy so decided to let a shopt take care of it. Here's the story:

Sunday 8/30 I drove with my wife to run a couple of errands, probably about 5 miles. On the way back home I hear a whining/grinding right behind me so I figure it is the serpentine belt. I'm within a couple of minutes of home so I complete the trip back. Temperature was slightly above normal, but it was also about 100F outside. Next morning, 8/31, I take it to my shop which is also only a few miles away. I don't hear the noise, but I leave it with them and explain what I heard. Later in the day they called to confirm that it was indeed the serp belt (cracked) and that the belt tensioner was bad. So they recommend replacing both. They finish the work and call me on 9/2 explaining that there is also a crack in the vacuum line and they replace that as well. I was getting CEL on for a week or so, then off for a few weeks at a time over the past few months so I figure the vacuum leak made sense. Otherwise, the car had been performing and running perfectly until the belt sound.

I picked up the car on 9/3 after all work was complete. I start a drive from Orange County to LA. Immediately into the drive I hear the whining noise behind me again, consistent pitch with the engine rpm's, and notice the car is "jumping" a lot when shifting. I call my shop and determine to keep driving because there was no bad smell, smoke, or rise in temperature. About 15 minutes later I pull off to fill up on gas. As I'm filling up the car vents fluid everywhere on the ground. It smelled like coolant but was coffee-like in color and kind of foamy too. I call the shop back and the recommend to bring it back immediately or have it towed. I drove it back most of the way but it got up to about 225F so I pull over and shut it down. I call the shop and they call a tow for me. As I'm waiting the car again vents the same substance. When the car is delivered to the shop the guy there sees the fluid on the tow truck and says "that's really bad." Indicating that the coolant and oil have apparently mixed somewhere in-line. From my limited knowledge I suggest that isn't this typically do to a cracked cylinder or engine block, and the guy at the shop agrees that it likely is and that my engine is most likely "done." He immediately begins to cover his tracks saying that this problem had nothing to do with what they were working on with the belt/tensioner, although he mentions that when the re-tensioned the belt that it may have been tighter than before causing the water pump to fail...again suggesting that this would have nothing to do with the work that they did. Now, I am not certain what is typical for a belt and tensioner repair, but they removed the alternator, power steering pump, a/c compressor, throttle body assy, intake tube, and power steering bracket. I suggest to the guy at the shop that it is much too ironic that I drive no more than 30 minutes after their work and my car basically shuts down and is "done" according to him.

I finally receive a call from the shop this afternoon, their message saying "good news" your car is fixed and ready to go. The apparent problem being a failed heater valve which caused the venting of the fluid. They, of course, want me to pay for it saying it had nothing to do with the work they did. I show up at the shop to pick up the car and get into a big argument with them about what happened. They agreed (sort of) to not force me to pay for the new work but blame me for the problem...car isn't properly maintained, they say the "log" indicated several recent overheats which I did not address. BS, I have never overheated in my car until yesterday after the work they did on it. I ask them about the oil in the coolant and say it was like that when I brought it in. Again, BS, there is no way...I know what coolant looks like and this is not what was in my tank...I see it often because I am in my trunk all the time. They say that they don't know why the coolant is contaminated with oil and that I didn't pay them to figure it out so they don't know. They also tell me, "we don't know what you put in your coolant system." Please, coolant you piece of sh....... So now they say that the car is "driveable" and make me leave the shop. They also refuse to give me the log readout saying that I didn't pay for it...even though I paid them $1100 yesterday for the work on the belt/tensioner. I drive home, again no more than a few miles, and there is obvious smoke coming from the engine area. The car is shifting really hard, but no noise anymore from the belt area. It appears they finally fixed the belt problem, but caused a myriad of other problems by not fixing it correctly the first time.

As of now I am really angry and suspsect that my car is likely going to really be done within the next few minutes or miles of driving. Do you have any suggestions as to what could have happened with all of this and what the relationship is between the work they did and the overheating? They insist it is completely unrelated, but I just can't believe that. I have driven this car for over 9 years with no major problems, and within minutes of leaving their shop I am stranded with an overheated engine and coolant contaminated with oil. I feel I will need to take my car somewhere else for evaluation but the thousands of dollars that it is going to cost for someone else to fix the problem seems and feels like it should be the responsibility of the shop that messed it up. Considering they had to escort me out of the building, I am sure they are not going to be willing to pick up the cost for another shop to repair, and I sure as hell am not taking it back to them to mess it up even further.

My speculation is that they did not reassemble the many parts they removed correctly. The belt was still making a sound on pick-up which makes me think that it was not running properly and that they obviously did not put something back together the right way. Is it possible that this led to the water pump not functioning which led to the overheating, which led to the heater valve rupture, and amongst all of this caused a crack in the cylinder/head? I am not familiar with what causes a cracked cylinder so please let me know if any of this could be related/relevant.

Another interesting note is that my service record yesterday included only the CEL codes they found (P1128, P1130) and the belt/tensioner problem...no mention of anything else. Don't you think they would have / should have noticed the coolant being contaminated with oil while doing all of this work, removal, replacement of parts? I know I sure would have if it was there.

Today's service record explains in great detail how the 90k mile service is due, the car is poorly maintained, engine oil is dirty, front motor mount clunks, coolant has contaminant, and oil seperator is incorrect for the car (996 instead of 986). In other words, they are obviously trying to cover their tracks. They were extremely defensive about the work they did, insisting that they could not have possibly done anything wrong...which again to me implies that they know they did something and don't want to fess up. BTW, this is a Porsche-only shop. Something else to consider is that they told me the initial belt/tensioner work would take ~6hrs to complete and I'd have the car back in a day. I got a subsequent call from them saying that the work was going to take more like 9-12 hrs of work and that it was much more complicated than they had anticipated, and two days were added to completion. This makes me think that they screwed some stuff up along the way and had to do some repair that they caused and didn't mention...probably leading to or contributing to the cyclinder/head crack, assuming that's what it is.

I am thinking to flush the coolant today and replace it just to see what happens, and how long it takes for the contamination to occur, and to what extent. Right now the coolant looks like coffee, so I assume it is highly contaminated.

I am really hoping someone can help me with this, at least to understand what has possibly happened to my baby and how I should proceed with this mess. Thank you so much for any help and insight you can give me.

Again, many thanks,

crwarren11

Orange County, CA

[mikes_box]

I have a 2000 Boxster with 89000 miles on it. I am the only owner, only driver, and have been very good about keeping up with it. I do some DIY here and there, but nothing major. I probably would have done the belt work I mention below but I thought it was going to be quick and easy so decided to let a shopt take care of it. Here's the story:

Sunday 8/30 I drove with my wife to run a couple of errands, probably about 5 miles. On the way back home I hear a whining/grinding right behind me so I figure it is the serpentine belt. I'm within a couple of minutes of home so I complete the trip back. Temperature was slightly above normal, but it was also about 100F outside. Next morning, 8/31, I take it to my shop which is also only a few miles away. I don't hear the noise, but I leave it with them and explain what I heard. Later in the day they called to confirm that it was indeed the serp belt (cracked) and that the belt tensioner was bad. So they recommend replacing both. They finish the work and call me on 9/2 explaining that there is also a crack in the vacuum line and they replace that as well. I was getting CEL on for a week or so, then off for a few weeks at a time over the past few months so I figure the vacuum leak made sense. Otherwise, the car had been performing and running perfectly until the belt sound.

I picked up the car on 9/3 after all work was complete. I start a drive from Orange County to LA. Immediately into the drive I hear the whining noise behind me again, consistent pitch with the engine rpm's, and notice the car is "jumping" a lot when shifting. I call my shop and determine to keep driving because there was no bad smell, smoke, or rise in temperature. About 15 minutes later I pull off to fill up on gas. As I'm filling up the car vents fluid everywhere on the ground. It smelled like coolant but was coffee-like in color and kind of foamy too. I call the shop back and the recommend to bring it back immediately or have it towed. I drove it back most of the way but it got up to about 225F so I pull over and shut it down. I call the shop and they call a tow for me. As I'm waiting the car again vents the same substance. When the car is delivered to the shop the guy there sees the fluid on the tow truck and says "that's really bad." Indicating that the coolant and oil have apparently mixed somewhere in-line. From my limited knowledge I suggest that isn't this typically do to a cracked cylinder or engine block, and the guy at the shop agrees that it likely is and that my engine is most likely "done." He immediately begins to cover his tracks saying that this problem had nothing to do with what they were working on with the belt/tensioner, although he mentions that when the re-tensioned the belt that it may have been tighter than before causing the water pump to fail...again suggesting that this would have nothing to do with the work that they did. Now, I am not certain what is typical for a belt and tensioner repair, but they removed the alternator, power steering pump, a/c compressor, throttle body assy, intake tube, and power steering bracket. I suggest to the guy at the shop that it is much too ironic that I drive no more than 30 minutes after their work and my car basically shuts down and is "done" according to him.

I finally receive a call from the shop this afternoon, their message saying "good news" your car is fixed and ready to go. The apparent problem being a failed heater valve which caused the venting of the fluid. They, of course, want me to pay for it saying it had nothing to do with the work they did. I show up at the shop to pick up the car and get into a big argument with them about what happened. They agreed (sort of) to not force me to pay for the new work but blame me for the problem...car isn't properly maintained, they say the "log" indicated several recent overheats which I did not address. BS, I have never overheated in my car until yesterday after the work they did on it. I ask them about the oil in the coolant and say it was like that when I brought it in. Again, BS, there is no way...I know what coolant looks like and this is not what was in my tank...I see it often because I am in my trunk all the time. They say that they don't know why the coolant is contaminated with oil and that I didn't pay them to figure it out so they don't know. They also tell me, "we don't know what you put in your coolant system." Please, coolant you piece of sh....... So now they say that the car is "driveable" and make me leave the shop. They also refuse to give me the log readout saying that I didn't pay for it...even though I paid them $1100 yesterday for the work on the belt/tensioner. I drive home, again no more than a few miles, and there is obvious smoke coming from the engine area. The car is shifting really hard, but no noise anymore from the belt area. It appears they finally fixed the belt problem, but caused a myriad of other problems by not fixing it correctly the first time.

As of now I am really angry and suspsect that my car is likely going to really be done within the next few minutes or miles of driving. Do you have any suggestions as to what could have happened with all of this and what the relationship is between the work they did and the overheating? They insist it is completely unrelated, but I just can't believe that. I have driven this car for over 9 years with no major problems, and within minutes of leaving their shop I am stranded with an overheated engine and coolant contaminated with oil. I feel I will need to take my car somewhere else for evaluation but the thousands of dollars that it is going to cost for someone else to fix the problem seems and feels like it should be the responsibility of the shop that messed it up. Considering they had to escort me out of the building, I am sure they are not going to be willing to pick up the cost for another shop to repair, and I sure as hell am not taking it back to them to mess it up even further.

My speculation is that they did not reassemble the many parts they removed correctly. The belt was still making a sound on pick-up which makes me think that it was not running properly and that they obviously did not put something back together the right way. Is it possible that this led to the water pump not functioning which led to the overheating, which led to the heater valve rupture, and amongst all of this caused a crack in the cylinder/head? I am not familiar with what causes a cracked cylinder so please let me know if any of this could be related/relevant.

Another interesting note is that my service record yesterday included only the CEL codes they found (P1128, P1130) and the belt/tensioner problem...no mention of anything else. Don't you think they would have / should have noticed the coolant being contaminated with oil while doing all of this work, removal, replacement of parts? I know I sure would have if it was there.

Today's service record explains in great detail how the 90k mile service is due, the car is poorly maintained, engine oil is dirty, front motor mount clunks, coolant has contaminant, and oil seperator is incorrect for the car (996 instead of 986). In other words, they are obviously trying to cover their tracks. They were extremely defensive about the work they did, insisting that they could not have possibly done anything wrong...which again to me implies that they know they did something and don't want to fess up. BTW, this is a Porsche-only shop. Something else to consider is that they told me the initial belt/tensioner work would take ~6hrs to complete and I'd have the car back in a day. I got a subsequent call from them saying that the work was going to take more like 9-12 hrs of work and that it was much more complicated than they had anticipated, and two days were added to completion. This makes me think that they screwed some stuff up along the way and had to do some repair that they caused and didn't mention...probably leading to or contributing to the cyclinder/head crack, assuming that's what it is.

I am thinking to flush the coolant today and replace it just to see what happens, and how long it takes for the contamination to occur, and to what extent. Right now the coolant looks like coffee, so I assume it is highly contaminated.

I am really hoping someone can help me with this, at least to understand what has possibly happened to my baby and how I should proceed with this mess. Thank you so much for any help and insight you can give me.

Again, many thanks,

crwarren11

Orange County, CA

i had the p1128 and p1130 and mine was due to an AOS (air oil separator) gone to hell. i knew it was the aos since i had tons and i mean tons of smoke coming out of the exhaust at start up after shutting down when i saw the cel come on. i think the noise you may have been hearing is your waterpump going out and then causing the bearings and the belt to go with it... that would explain the overheating problem.. if the waterpump goes out it can cause the belt to break and the tensioners to get all messed up. i changed mine due to a minor leak and i mean minor (no fluid on the ground) just to prevent any major thing since it was gonna get replaced anyway in the future. my car only had 39k when i changed the waterpump and serpentine belt, and 40k when the aos went... so if you're at 90 i wouldn't be surprised that the waterpump and aos needs replacing... btw the waterpump and belt replacement was a diy and it took me and a buddy about 2 hours to complete with flushing out the coolant so i can imagine changing the belt and tensioner taking 12 hours...

[pk2]

That alot information to digest, The really short answer the shop sounds horrible. Poster child or abuse.

They should have gone for a spin in your car once "fixed". If it was doing the same or anything questionable, should have gone right back to the garage with a big red flag. However you heard it al too, should't really accepted it.

Umm...so much to say. Every time I've had water in the oil. the block, head gasket or head were the culprits. The cars runs hot depending how bad it is and where the leak is. Usually grey streaks up the dip stick and, the grays accumulate in high places so under the filer cap is a good place look. But that's when the stuff is combined through the pressure cooker called your engine. If it just spills out independently or hasn't been under a- lot of heat stress, Its' oil and water trying not to mix together on dark ashalt. On the pavement it would hard to discern which is which Neither will evaporate soon. You can feel the difference and smell the dif.

Personally I hope you're not grieving rt. now, cause your very lucky. I wouldn't personally drive my car 50 feet with the symptoms described, It could have been a total disaster. As best I can tell you had the right symptoms and the rt apparent outcome. Event though you got off lucky with no catastrophic failure , you still could have done a lot of damage by driving it.

Your shop sounds that it is not just incompetent but, negligent, deceitful and, vindictive and would be a perfect study for a cautionary Better biz Bureau short (film). But even ven if your paying top dollar and lobby where the coffees really good, Stuff happens, mechanics aren't the same your problem is the first of it's kind I've ever heard of. I'm befuddled by the 12 hours to change the tensioner I haven't done but I was real close, nothing obviously remarkable about it.. a relatively competent mechanic could have the whole motor out in that time.

Regards, PK

[crwarren11]

Thanks for the replies, sorry for all of the information, I'm known to be longwinded when writing so I apologize for that. A couple of more tidbits of info to possibly help in your diagnosis. First, the CEL codes I believe are entirely unrelated to the failure I had. This was a recurring problem since the last time I took the car to this shop due to vaccuum leaks...should have learned then I guess. They came highly recommended, though, and are a Porsche-only shop so I gave it another shot on what I thought to be an "easy" job...that I likely would have DIY if I wasn't so desperate to get the car back quickly.

When the car vented the second time on Thursday, the low oil light was flickering on and off, apparently indicating that the oil had vented too. Otherwise, I know I had a full reserve of oil (I always wait for the countdown to finish on first start-up of the day). When I asked yesterday if they had replaced the oil or filled it up, they said that the oil level was fine...again I know this isn't true b/c the oil light was on then and now it is off. Checked dipstick and oil is in range. I think they filled the oil and didn't tell me for some reason...my guess is that the oil being vented indicates another problem that they likely caused? Any thoughts?

I just went to start her up again and just pulled her out of the garage and ran the car for a couple of minutes. Seems to be running fine except that the "low coolant" light is flashing (red blinking light on temp gauge) and there is another "vent" spot on the carpet that lays underneath the car in the garage, directly underneath where the coolant vent hose is (I know this because I replaced a cracked coolant reserve about 18 months ago DIY). Anyway, examined the liquid and there is definitely oil in it...slippery, smell of oil, also with the smell of coolant mixed in.

The shop really argued with me that there is no correlation between the belt/tensioner and the cooling system, yet unless I am missing something here isn't the belt connected to the water pump which runs the cooling system? Still hoping to find another reason that oil is in my coolant other than head/cylinder crack. Is it possible that the car would vent coolant and oil in some situation? Is it possible they connected a hose wrong that is now running oil into my coolant system, or that has the two crossed somewhere in-line?

Planning to take her in to another Porsche-only shop next week to see what they have to say. I would love nothing more than to prove that their work caused the water pump failure (if that is what happened, hopefully they can tell me that) as well as the overheat, venting, and oil in coolant. Then, my next call is to my attorney.

Any thoughts on driving around for a bit to test things out? Am I pushing my luck for some even greater catastrophic failure?

Thank you again for all of your insight and help, it is greatly appreciated.

[crwarren11]

Sorry, one more thing...the shop said they did take the car for a test drive and it was fine there. I noticed the mileage sitting on 0.0 when I started it up to leave the shop and then immediately turned to 0.1 when I left. I'm thinking they test drove it less than a tenth of a mile and determined it was fine.

[tstover]

How long does it take for the coolant to show signs of oil contamination? The oil will usually rise to the top of the coolant bottle and show up as a sludge if you have an issue. I had a similar problem with "coffee" all over the driveway in my 2001 boxster s. Shortly after changing the coolant with distilled water the oil reappeard. After a lot of research I discovered that the problem was the oil cooler that sits on top of the engine. It had developed a pinhole leak that caused oil to go into the coolant. The oil does not seem to get contaminated...I guess that the pressure on the oil side is much higher. In any event, the replacement of the heat exchanger is pretty straitforward, but the hard part is the number of cooling system flushes that you have to do to get residual oil out of the cooling system.

One thing your dealer should have done (you should probably get someone to do this) is a leakdown test to see if you have a blown head or cracked cylinder. If this comes out ok the culprit is very likely the heat exchanger. If you want more info on changing the heat exchanger or flushing the coolant, post a reply and I can guide you through that process.

[crwarren11]

How long does it take for the coolant to show signs of oil contamination? The oil will usually rise to the top of the coolant bottle and show up as a sludge if you have an issue. I had a similar problem with "coffee" all over the driveway in my 2001 boxster s. Shortly after changing the coolant with distilled water the oil reappeard. After a lot of research I discovered that the problem was the oil cooler that sits on top of the engine. It had developed a pinhole leak that caused oil to go into the coolant. The oil does not seem to get contaminated...I guess that the pressure on the oil side is much higher. In any event, the replacement of the heat exchanger is pretty straitforward, but the hard part is the number of cooling system flushes that you have to do to get residual oil out of the cooling system.

One thing your dealer should have done (you should probably get someone to do this) is a leakdown test to see if you have a blown head or cracked cylinder. If this comes out ok the culprit is very likely the heat exchanger. If you want more info on changing the heat exchanger or flushing the coolant, post a reply and I can guide you through that process.

Wow, thank you for the information. I actually have a small glimmer of hope now, which is great (although I am still fearing the worst)! I spent last Saturday flushing as much of the coolant system as I could with gallons and gallons of water, running the car for a bit, draining, repeating, etc. I still find oil coming out in the water, but not as much as the first couple of times I did it. Also, on the positive side I drained a bit of oil and did not see any coolant in it. I'm not sure how obvious that is, but I assume it would look like the coffee color that vented. Did your car ever vent or blow oil? Not sure if I mentioned it before, but I know my low oil light was flashing after the second vent on the day it overheated. I've never heard of oil being vented but maybe it could be if there was some kind of leak in the oil cooler? I did not get a low oil light during the first vent, only after the overheating and second vent. The only part that was (supposedly) replaced after the venting/overheating was a blown heater valve. I am positive that they did some other work too that they didn't tell me about because the car no longer had the whining noise and the oil reservoir was magically full when I picked it up. I haven't driven the car for about two weeks, since I brought it home from the shop, just ran it for a few minutes here and there in the driveway while trying to flush the coolant system and checking for more oil. Is there any easy way to determine if the oil cooler may have been replaced, or conversely if it has a leak?

Thanks for your help!

[txhokie4life]

How long does it take for the coolant to show signs of oil contamination? The oil will usually rise to the top of the coolant bottle and show up as a sludge if you have an issue. I had a similar problem with "coffee" all over the driveway in my 2001 boxster s. Shortly after changing the coolant with distilled water the oil reappeard. After a lot of research I discovered that the problem was the oil cooler that sits on top of the engine. It had developed a pinhole leak that caused oil to go into the coolant. The oil does not seem to get contaminated...I guess that the pressure on the oil side is much higher. In any event, the replacement of the heat exchanger is pretty straitforward, but the hard part is the number of cooling system flushes that you have to do to get residual oil out of the cooling system.

One thing your dealer should have done (you should probably get someone to do this) is a leakdown test to see if you have a blown head or cracked cylinder. If this comes out ok the culprit is very likely the heat exchanger. If you want more info on changing the heat exchanger or flushing the coolant, post a reply and I can guide you through that process.

Wow, thank you for the information. I actually have a small glimmer of hope now, which is great (although I am still fearing the worst)! I spent last Saturday flushing as much of the coolant system as I could with gallons and gallons of water, running the car for a bit, draining, repeating, etc. I still find oil coming out in the water, but not as much as the first couple of times I did it. Also, on the positive side I drained a bit of oil and did not see any coolant in it. I'm not sure how obvious that is, but I assume it would look like the coffee color that vented. Did your car ever vent or blow oil? Not sure if I mentioned it before, but I know my low oil light was flashing after the second vent on the day it overheated. I've never heard of oil being vented but maybe it could be if there was some kind of leak in the oil cooler? I did not get a low oil light during the first vent, only after the overheating and second vent. The only part that was (supposedly) replaced after the venting/overheating was a blown heater valve. I am positive that they did some other work too that they didn't tell me about because the car no longer had the whining noise and the oil reservoir was magically full when I picked it up. I haven't driven the car for about two weeks, since I brought it home from the shop, just ran it for a few minutes here and there in the driveway while trying to flush the coolant system and checking for more oil. Is there any easy way to determine if the oil cooler may have been replaced, or conversely if it has a leak?

Thanks for your help!

Have you checked the oil to see if there is coolant in there? If you have a catastophic oil/water mix -- it will likely be in both.

If not then it would support what tstover has suggested that the oil cooler is to blame.

m

[crwarren11]

Yes, I did drain some oil out of the reservoir when I was down there draining the coolant. The oil appeared to be fine to me, at least compared to the milky coffee mess that was in the coolant system before. I have a few quarts of new oil at home so I'll drain a significant amount hopefully sometime this week and see if it looks any different...maybe I'll post a pic and see what you guys think.

[tstover]

Yes, my oil level was down, because the oil was going into the cooling system through the leak in the heat exchanger. Since I have changed the heat exchanger there has been no problems with the oil level going down. What I did was change the heat exchanger, flush the cooling system (more times than I care to mention to get most of the oil sludge out!), and then took it to the porsche dealer for a leakdown test. The reason I did the leakdown test was to ease my mind that I did not have a serious engine problem. In retrospect, I probably should have had the leakdown test performed first (it cost about $400). If the test comes out within specs then the problem is most likely the heat exchanger/oil cooler.

[crwarren11]

Cool, thanks! I posted on your other topic about this as well...did you ever take pictures or make instructions for replacing the oil cooler? I think that post had some instructions so I can use that unless you have something better.

[tstover]

Sorry, did not take pictures. The instructions for replacing the heat exchanger on that post are very good.

Good luck with it!

[txhokie4life]

Excellent --

oil in coolant is much better than coolant in oil.

Anti-freeze can be pretty harsh on bearings and what not inside the engine. That is why

for my Intermix -- I tore the engine completely down.

mike

[crwarren11]

I have been driving short distances over the past couple of weeks in an effort to continue to try and flush the coolant system of all the oil that was in it. During this, the idle has been very rough; the car is shifting very hard (tiptronic); and it has almost stalled on me a couple of times. Do you see any relationship between these problems and the intermix? The car was not having any of these problems prior to the service on the serp belt. Any thoughts? Thanks...

[Cloudsurfer]

Have you checked or replaced the water pump? If you haven't replaced it by 90K you are certainly due for one, either way. To try to determine where your problems are, I would have the cooling system tested for integrity. It very well could be the oil cooler, as plenty of those have gone bad. Then, to either relieve or confirm issues with the reciprocating assembly, have a compression and leakdown test done.

I have seen a tear down of one of these engines that was run for a few minutes with a failed water pump, and the internals were scorched. Several sleeves were scored, two had failed, the small ends of the rods were charred, and every piston had its rings friction welded to them. That engine ran when started, albeit horribly, but had coolant pouring out of one bank's exhaust from the failed sleeve. A quick leakdown test confirmed the failed sleeves and from there it was torn down. It doesn't take much to cook an engine when coolant isn't flowing.

[crwarren11]

Thanks for your help and suggestions. I got into the work a bit yesterday, but mostly just looking around. I have added a picture of the oil cooler here. Anything jump out as something wrong?

Is there an easy way to check the water pump? I am assuming there may be something wrong with it based on the operating temperature when I was running it yesterday. It ran in normal range (just above 180) for about 30 minutes. Then, it started going up pretty quickly after that. It ended up hitting about 215 before the secondary cooling fan kicked it, which then cooled it back off. Since I wasn't driving anywhere, just sitting. I think this points to the water pump since it had absolutely no help from moving air that would be there during a drive.

[phillipj]

Replacing your water pump would be a smart move no matter what with the mileage you have. My 996 3.4 expired because of a failed water pump at 75K miles with no warning. Cheap insurance in the long run.

Like Cloudsurfer said it only has to run briefly with a failed pump to "toast" your engine.

[crwarren11]

Hmm, got me thinking a bit more about the water pump. Before it goes bad, I seem to recall someone mentioning that you may hear a "whining" noise coming from the passenger side? I haven't heard it lately, but I do recall hearing this a couple of months ago. It sounded like I had a leaf caught in what I thought was the secondary blower. I heard it on startup but then it would go away after a few minutes, so I didn't think much of it. It was pretty consistent on startup, though, before I had my major meltdown.

I also took some videos yesterday of the engine running, so I will try to get those up on youtube for viewing.

[txhokie4life]

You can pick up a water pump for <$150 (maybe <$125) on EBAY

I bought a lot of 5 for $500.

i consider this cheap insurance. of course most of my work is

with the engine outside of the car -- but even so it seems like

the water pump is not too bad a DIY.

mike

[zodman]

I just went thru a water pump issue myself on my 2001 S (76k). Ordered the new water pump, belt, and gasket from Sunset. After getting to the pump itself, the leak appeared to be coming from the longer screw thread which was finger loose.

Sunset Imports - water-pump 197.12, gasket 5.45, belt 26.00 a dang good deal for oem parts.

To err on the side of caution, I still replaced the waterpump. The old water-pump itself shown no-other signs of wear, but I'm not taking any chances otherwise. It is an easy DIY.

In reading your tragedy, despite the "shop" I don't see how they could of mixed hoses, but the higher temps you mentioned and the rough-running are concerning. High temps and water-pump failure is an invite to heat the engine oil too thin which in turn can cause bad things to happen to the engine. Vedy-vedy bad things...

If I were you, I would get the leak-down test, I would without a doubt-replace the water-pump, and very possibly replace the heat exchanger just for cheap insurance and peace of mind. I would also consider checking and or replacing the tranny fluid.

I'd probably even would drain all the oil out too and replace it too. If it's been shocked with the high temps too long, I would run a thicker syth. oil than 0w40 too, and replace the thermostat with one that opens at 160F.

btw-changing the fan belt for me first time on this car- took less than 20 minutes...Last time I took my car to a "porsche-shop" was for a fuel pump install, and yes, they even screwed that up. i.e., they twisted the float cable so an inaccurate fuel level was given, and left the speed/odom. at kilometers. But on the plus side they re-fixed it for free...too err is human, to overcharge is inhumane.

n-e-ways thats my two-bits

[crwarren11]

Thanks for the help. I will replace the oil cooler and water pump as soon as I can. These seem to be pretty straightforward DIYs from what I've read on this forum. Probably next year unless I run into some free time (and $) soon. Holidays, baby on the way, don't see a lot of tinkering time (or $) in the future.

I heard a leakdown test runs ~$500...does that seem reasonable?

[zodman]

Thanks for the help. I will replace the oil cooler and water pump as soon as I can. These seem to be pretty straightforward DIYs from what I've read on this forum. Probably next year unless I run into some free time (and $) soon. Holidays, baby on the way, don't see a lot of tinkering time (or $) in the future.

I heard a leakdown test runs ~$500...does that seem reasonable?

Am not sure, but I would shop it around your area. Also, I wouldn't drive it at all if you are experiencing high temps, and fluid leaks.

A course of action, con$idering your $ituiation:

1. New Water-pump, Gasket and Oil Cooler (& 2 OC O-Rings); new oil filter and crush ring; 160F Thermostat (made by LN Engineering)

2. Replace oil; Replace coolant. (Inspect the old oil to see if there are any :::gasp::: metal pieces in it and for color too)

3. Clean MAF and Throttle Body. (MAF cleaner & Throttle body cleaner spray cans.)

4. Check the J-tube (Or Y-tube) leading to your AOS for a thick presence of oil. if so, replace the AOS. (Careful removing them as they can be brittle with time.)

#3 to rule out the rough running (though there is an known issue with the tiptronics), #2 use a (recommended) thicker sythn. oil.

The objective of course is to keep the engine cool(er) hence the 160F thermostat and the thicker oil.

If the above doesn't work, then get the leak down test, if you had the money, I'd get the car flat-bed towed to a shop for the leak-down test first to rule out the heads or an engine block crack.

best-of-luck

z

[1schoir]

Thanks for the help. I will replace the oil cooler and water pump as soon as I can. These seem to be pretty straightforward DIYs from what I've read on this forum. Probably next year unless I run into some free time (and $) soon. Holidays, baby on the way, don't see a lot of tinkering time (or $) in the future.

I heard a leakdown test runs ~$500...does that seem reasonable?

So that you don't get taken to the cleaners again, you should know that a leakdown test is a relatively simple procedure.

All they have to do is to get each piston to top dead center, one by one (so that all four valves are closed in that cylinder), introduce compressed air through the spark plug hole and then observe (and listen) for any leakage from that cylinder.

That SHOULD NOT take any competent mechanic 4 hours @ $125/hour!

A cheaper test, which is not as revealing as a leakdown test because its readings are affected by more than just cylinder leakage, is to just do a compression test. That you can easily DIY with just a decent compression gauge. It might give you some temporary peace of mind until you can do the leakdown test. That's a DIY too, but a little more complicated. Not rocket science.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited January 26, 2010 by 1schoir

[jthailer]

Was the problem resolved?

[BruceT]

No response to problem resolved. Wonder if the shop that did not cause the problem received an appology. Yeah right.