Ripped Trim due to broken operating arms

[alvarley]

Hi

I have 2003 2.7 tiptronic RHD UK spec, the two arms that attach to the V levers to drive the convertable top up and down have broken. Before I found this site and while trying to work out what was wrong the drive system was operated several times and both arms became bent but they also punctured the black foam tray with the drain hole on both sides and ripped (on the left side only) the piece of fabric trim that goes all the way around the base of the top, it is the bit you unclip to put the top in the service position.

My Porsche dealer tells me the fabric trim is stiched to the top, but to me it seems to be attached to a metal bar that runs around the base of the top, below the window. I've searched this forum but could not find an answer so hope one of you guys knows for sure.

Also I've just read a post about how to remove the top completely which I'm told needs to be done to replace the foam trays that have been punctured, how easy if it to replace these bits of foam once the top is off?

Hope you can shed some light on this

Thanks

Al

[juniinc]

The bottom fabric trim is NOT stitched to the top canvas,,,yes it is attached to a metal bar that runs around the base of the top.

will need to remove the fat rubber seal then U will be able to see how they are GLUED on.

Mike's canvas R&R has more of detailed pics,,,

Hi

I have 2003 2.7 tiptronic RHD UK spec, the two arms that attach to the V levers to drive the convertable top up and down have broken. Before I found this site and while trying to work out what was wrong the drive system was operated several times and both arms became bent but they also punctured the black foam tray with the drain hole on both sides and ripped (on the left side only) the piece of fabric trim that goes all the way around the base of the top, it is the bit you unclip to put the top in the service position.

My Porsche dealer tells me the fabric trim is stiched to the top, but to me it seems to be attached to a metal bar that runs around the base of the top, below the window. I've searched this forum but could not find an answer so hope one of you guys knows for sure.

Also I've just read a post about how to remove the top completely which I'm told needs to be done to replace the foam trays that have been punctured, how easy if it to replace these bits of foam once the top is off?

Hope you can shed some light on this

Thanks

Al

[pk2]

Sounds like fun! 3m Weatherstrip and gasket adhesive is the best. Be careful you don't glue yourself to the top. Before you go taking the top off ( Frankly I don't see the need but I never had to), there are some threads on replacing those trays. Do a search on "maurice", he never gets dripped on and is the resident top whiz.

Whatever you do don't take it out in the rain. It will leak with everything ripped up and drown the security black box under your seat.

Regards, PK

[1schoir]

Alvarley:

It is very straightforward to replace the foam drain trays, but the top and frame assembly definitely have to come off first.That procedure should only take around 1/2 hour if you follow the instructions posted on a thread here. You could also check out Mike Focke's website as the procedure is posted there as well.

Depending on how badly your foam trays are torn up, you may be able to repair the tears with some urethane sealer. Permatex makes a good product for that application. I'll look to see what I used in the past and post it here if you want to try to repair instead of replace. The important thing is to make absolutely sure that you don't end up with any water in the cabin through the tears. As pk said, it will be very expensive if you have to replace the central alarm computer under the driver's side seat (left side on U.S. models). It may be different on a UK car, but you can't miss it if you look under the seats.

Post a couple of photos of the tears and of the vinyl apron so we can see what the damage is.

Regards, Maurice.

[alvarley]

Alvarley:

It is very straightforward to replace the foam drain trays, but the top and frame assembly definitely have to come off first.That procedure should only take around 1/2 hour if you follow the instructions posted on a thread here. You could also check out Mike Focke's website as the procedure is posted there as well.

Depending on how badly your foam trays are torn up, you may be able to repair the tears with some urethane sealer. Permatex makes a good product for that application. I'll look to see what I used in the past and post it here if you want to try to repair instead of replace. The important thing is to make absolutely sure that you don't end up with any water in the cabin through the tears. As pk said, it will be very expensive if you have to replace the central alarm computer under the driver's side seat (left side on U.S. models). It may be different on a UK car, but you can't miss it if you look under the seats.

Post a couple of photos of the tears and of the vinyl apron so we can see what the damage is.

Regards, Maurice.

Hi Maurice,

I have considered sealing the holes in the foam tray, but they have quite a lot of grease/lubricant on them where the V levers have been lubricated by my Porsche dealer in the past. The de-greasing stuff I have would probably melt the foam and so I'm not convinced I would get an effective seal with a urethane sealer. If the trays are easy to replace then doing that would give me peace of mind.

I'll post some photos later today.

Al

[1schoir]

Hi Maurice,

I have considered sealing the holes in the foam tray, but they have quite a lot of grease/lubricant on them where the V levers have been lubricated by my Porsche dealer in the past. The de-greasing stuff I have would probably melt the foam and so I'm not convinced I would get an effective seal with a urethane sealer. If the trays are easy to replace then doing that would give me peace of mind.

I'll post some photos later today.

Al

Al:

Peace of mind is good.

The information your dealer gave you regarding the vinyl apron is only half true. The apron is stitched in, but not to the top itself. The apron is stitched to a flexible vinyl edging, which in turn is pressed in to a channel in the rearmost bow. The vinyl apron comes complete with the vinyl edging already attached. It you take the complete top and frame assembly off, installing the new vinyl apron is not very time consuming.

I'm no sure how much Porsche sells the part for, but if you remove the top and frame assembly and then remove the vinyl apron with its edging, any local upholsterer can sew in an identical (probably better quality) piece of vinyl into the original edging, both at the front and at the rear where it is attached to that bar.

The purpose of the vinyl apron is direct water that gets pats the clamshell edge and its gasket into the foam drain trays, so be sure to either repair it or replace it.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited August 6, 2009 by 1schoir

[alvarley]

Hi Maurice,

Some photo's below, hopefully, showing the puncture holes and ripped apron on leftside only, I hope you can see the way the apron has been ripped out of part of the frame.

If I have a go at removing the top are there any additional steps that need to be done on a 2003 car. Where/how for example does the wiring for the rear screen disconnect? Is the B pillar micro switch in a different place to pre 2003 cars?

Once the top is removed does the apron just slide out of the frame or is there any additional dismantling needed?

When I come to replace the opeating arms, do they come pre-assembled to a set lenght with minor adjustments being done by screwing the white nylon bit in or out? or if you have to assemble them is there a recommended lenght to start with ( the old arms are very bent and had to be taken apart to remove)

Thanks for you help and advice

Al

Edited August 7, 2009 by alvarley

[1schoir]

Al:

Good photos.

The punctures in the foam look like they can definitely be repaired with some sealant. Even if the top surfaces of the foam trays are contaminated with oil, there are solvents that will get rid of the oil and allow you to get a good seal. If you are going to remove the top and frame assembly you could even glue a small rubber patch from underneath the foam tray in addition to the sealant on top. I don't know if you have it available over there, but there is a product made by Loctite called Loctite 5910 RTV Sealant that would definitely do the job. Permatex has a black silicone adhesive sealant that I have also used. I posted the exact name here about a year ago, but I can't find it now.

The vinyl apron will have to come out to be properly repaired or replaced.

"...Where/how for example does the wiring for the rear screen disconnect? Is the B pillar micro switch in a different place to pre 2003 cars?"

The wiring for the rear defroster is just behind your left shoulder as you are sitting in the left (driver's side in US) seat, at the level of the engine compartment lid carpet cover.

There is no B-Pillar microswitch in cars with the newer (B Version) tansmissions (i.e., 2000 and later). That switch was moved to a connector embedded into the front of the driver's (left) side transmission, even though the manual says passenger's side.

"...Once the top is removed does the apron just slide out of the frame or is there any additional dismantling needed?"

No further dismantling needed, the apron should just slide out or may have to be pulled out of its channel.

"...When I come to replace the opeating arms, do they come pre-assembled to a set length with minor adjustments being done by screwing the white nylon bit in or out? or if you have to assemble them is there a recommended lenght to start with ( the old arms are very bent and had to be taken apart to remove)"

The pushrods come pre-assembled to a length that will allow you to get the top to operate well enough so that you can make minor adjustments... small adjustments by loosening the 10mm nut with fat washer and finer adjustments by screwing the plastic ball cup in or out. The overall length of the pushrod on each side will determine how evenly the front edge of the convertible top mates up with the top horizontal edge of the windshield frame.

Also, note that you may find it easier to remove the top and frame assembly if you first remove the vertical half-cylinder shaped, carpet-covered plastic trim panels that cover the seat belts and base of the rollbar. Not absolutely necessary, but makes the job much easier.

Good luck!

Regards, Maurice.

[alvarley]

Thanks Maurice,

I will have a go at doing this, I've ordered the parts but I am away on vacation for a few weeks. So will post an update when I've hopefully successfully done it.

Thanks again for your help

Al

[alvarley]

Hi Maurice,

Just collected the parts today ready for taking the top and frame off at the weekend.

Coud you answer another question pls?

The replacement foam water drip pan shown in the photo has a large hole on the left which the V lever drive goes through.

Is there any particular things to know about taking the V lever off? Are they splined and keyed so they only fit in one position?

Any other potential problems when replacing the drip pan?

Thanks

Al

[1schoir]

Hi Maurice,

Just collected the parts today ready for taking the top and frame off at the weekend.

Coud you answer another question pls?

The replacement foam water drip pan shown in the photo has a large hole on the left which the V lever drive goes through.

Is there any particular things to know about taking the V lever off? Are they splined and keyed so they only fit in one position?

Any other potential problems when replacing the drip pan?

Thanks

Al

Al:

Unbolting the V-levers will require some force because the 19mm bolt that holds each one in place has blue Loctite (semi-permanent) applied to it to make sure it does not back out accidentally with vibration, age, etc...

You should apply some blue Loctite when you are re-assembling and use a torque wrench set to 59 ft-lbs of torque to refasten the 19mm bolt.

Each V-lever have male key on its back surface and the transmission has a female key. However, it is possible to install the V-lever 180 degrees off (upside down) with that set up. Make sure to take some photos or keep track of the position of the V-levers before dissassembly so that you don't put them in upside down.

If you don't operate the V-levers after dissassembly, you will not have to re-synch the top transmissions.

Removing and installing the drain pans is pretty straightforward, but just be careful because the foam material (at least on the old ones) is a little delicate.

When you remove the two big black plastic buttons that hold the drain tray at the rear on each side, use a WIDE blade screwdriver so that you don't chew up the plastic face of those buttons.

Once you have your old drain trays out, check out the functioning of the drains and clear away any debris from the plastic opening of the drains. That opening will be plainly visible with the trays off. You can pour in a measured pint of water after you set a catch basin underneath to make sure that ALL of the water that is being poured in will come out at the bottom end. That way you will have made sure that there are no other holes or leaks which would allow water into the cabin. "Stefan" on this board found one of his plastic cups down there had cracked for no apparent reason. Do a search and you'll see his photos.

When you are removing the top and frame assembly, don't overlook the two (sometimes only one, sometimes none) Phillips head screws that are there alongside the three big bolts.

When you are finished bolting the top and frame assembly back on, test the operation of the top to see if the latch clears the windscreen between the roll bar hoops. If it doesn't or if it "brushes" against it, you will have to loosen the big bolts and have someone pull back on the base on each side while you tighten the big bolts.

Where did you source the trays and how much did they cost? The photo you provided makes them look like they are different (maybe more solid) material than the old ones.

Good Luck!

Regards, Maurice.

Edited September 3, 2009 by 1schoir

[alvarley]

Job Done :)

Thank you Maurice for all your help and advice, particularly some of the tips in your last post, they were really useful.

All went quite smoothly, getting the top and frame off was straight forward, and changing the ripped apron was also quite easy as it just clips to a small T sectioned bit around the edge of the rear most bow.

Changing the drip pans was a bit more difficult as they took a bit of gentle force to get in the correct position and thanks for the tip about the V levers, it would have been very easy to put them back on wrong. There was some additional debris in the drain cup so good to have checked them and flushed through as you suggested.

Putting the top and frame back on was our only problem as getting the forward bolt in proved a bit difficult but we got there in the end.

Your tip about checking the latch cleared the windshield between the roll hoops saved us loads of time as we would not have thought of checking that until after the arms had been put on. It did need some adjustment of the frame but that only took a few minutes.

The operating arms we adjusted to roughly the same lenght as the old bent ones, and more by luck than good judgement the top closed perfectly onto the top of the windshield and as an added bonus the clamshell now no longer rattles when driving over bumps in the road.

So thanks to RennTech I saved myself over £400 in labour charges at the Porsche Dealer and I know the job has been done right, first time.

Re the drain pan I ordered all the spares from the Porsche Dealer the pt# of the pan was 986.561.805.03 and that was the same as the removed one. It cost £54.92 plus tax.

Thanks again for all your help

:renntech:

Al

[1schoir]

Job Done :)

Thank you Maurice for all your help and advice, particularly some of the tips in your last post, they were really useful.

All went quite smoothly, getting the top and frame off was straight forward, and changing the ripped apron was also quite easy as it just clips to a small T sectioned bit around the edge of the rear most bow.

Changing the drip pans was a bit more difficult as they took a bit of gentle force to get in the correct position and thanks for the tip about the V levers, it would have been very easy to put them back on wrong. There was some additional debris in the drain cup so good to have checked them and flushed through as you suggested.

Putting the top and frame back on was our only problem as getting the forward bolt in proved a bit difficult but we got there in the end.

Your tip about checking the latch cleared the windshield between the roll hoops saved us loads of time as we would not have thought of checking that until after the arms had been put on. It did need some adjustment of the frame but that only took a few minutes.

The operating arms we adjusted to roughly the same lenght as the old bent ones, and more by luck than good judgement the top closed perfectly onto the top of the windshield and as an added bonus the clamshell now no longer rattles when driving over bumps in the road.

So thanks to RennTech I saved myself over £400 in labour charges at the Porsche Dealer and I know the job has been done right, first time.

Re the drain pan I ordered all the spares from the Porsche Dealer the pt# of the pan was 986.561.805.03 and that was the same as the removed one. It cost £54.92 plus tax.

Thanks again for all your help

:renntech:

Al

Al:

WAY TO GO!!!! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Thanks for giving us the outcome and your comments and for posting those earlier photos. I'm sure they will help the next guy to come along looking for answers!

Regards, Maurice.