Of folks who got a reman M96 engine, how many failed *again*?

[Darqangelle]

I'm sure some of you know my story - another "unfortunate victim" of the problems that seem to affect the 996 (M96) engines.

So I have to get a new engine. I don't want a rehash of PR statements like: "They fixed the majority of problems in 2000" (Then why did my 2001 fail? Why are there reports about 997 owners having problems?), "The remanned engines don't have these issues" (Then why am I hearing about Boxster owners getting 2-3 new engines?), "If you just maintained the car better..." ( <_< I think we all know this is an inherent design flaw... nuff said)

Considering what I've heard (and experienced) about Porsche's response to this issue, I'm a little shaky in my faith and taking their word on the "fix". I'm looking at my options: another potential ticking time bomb from Porsche? Or something aftermarket from a company who addresses the design flaws head-on and says "yeah, we got all that sorted...but it'll cost you". (Local mechanics say they haven't seen remanned engines come back...)

Rather than take random statements at face value, I'd like to get a sampling of hard numbers.

As the title suggests, I'm just trying to get a quick poll on those who did manage to get remanned engines from Porsche (not aftermarket) with their "worry free" (!?!??) two-year warranty.

Kindly Please share:

• Your model year
  
• How many miles(kms) on your new remanned engine
  
• Have you had any issues with your remanned engine? (whether in warranty or out?)
  

I appreciate all your responses. With thanks.

Darq

[phillipj]

I can only speak from personal experience but I have yet to hear of a Reman failing. Although Jake Raby (LN Engineering) says he has business from reman engines failing.

[1schoir]

+1 on contacting Jake Raby. He will give you some hard numbers that you can count on.

Regards, Maurice.

[Benjamin Choi]

Jake seems like he's pretty well vested in the whole M9X fix-up business. He runs a business. He needs to make $. That's fine. But very, very few people know him. Only the fanatics (us). And it'll be a long while if ever whether his fixes are any more reliable than the original engine or a reman engine touched only by Porsche factory.

2002 C4S

47K miles (replaced at 13K)

Zero

But I can't say whether I have a reman engine or a new original because the serial number on my engine doesn't have the reported typical sequence of numbers/letters. I think people have reported that reman engines have an "AT" or something, but IIRC mine does not. I'll have to look and even if it didn't, no one knows for sure what the reman program is all about... only Porsche. Again, typical factory stuff shrouded in uncertainy and mystery. :D

All I know is Ray S from Rennlist was very helpful in getting some of my records through his contacts and it's reported in Porsche's system that my engine was replaced under the original factory warranty. I don't know why it was replaced (IMS? RMS? Both?).

In all my readings on the forums to date, I have never heard of someone posting directly their experiences of a reman engine failing. Very unscientific research, but it's something.

Edit - I know for sure it's not the original because my engine does not have the cosmo-gunk on it (plus records)

Edited June 19, 2009 by Benjamin Choi

[dr914jr]

Jake seems like he's pretty well vested in the whole M9X fix-up business. He runs a business. He needs to make $. That's fine. But very, very few people know him. Only the fanatics (us). And it'll be a long while if ever whether his fixes are any more reliable than the original engine or a reman engine touched only by Porsche factory.

2002 C4S

47K miles (replaced at 13K)

Zero

But I can't say whether I have a reman engine or a new original because the serial number on my engine doesn't have the reported typical sequence of numbers/letters. I think people have reported that reman engines have an "AT" or something, but IIRC mine does not. I'll have to look and even if it didn't, no one knows for sure what the reman program is all about... only Porsche. Again, typical factory stuff shrouded in uncertainy and mystery. :D

All I know is Ray S from Rennlist was very helpful in getting some of my records through his contacts and it's reported in Porsche's system that my engine was replaced under the original factory warranty. I don't know why it was replaced (IMS? RMS? Both?).

In all my readings on the forums to date, I have never heard of someone posting directly their experiences of a reman engine failing. Very unscientific research, but it's something.

Edit - I know for sure it's not the original because my engine does not have the cosmo-gunk on it (plus records)

I know and have met Jake. He has a phenomenal reputation in the air cooled world and is actually quite well known outside this watery circle. I suspect that before long he'll be well loved and trusted here as well.

[Dharn55]

I dom't have a remanufactured engine, rather I had an intermix caused by a cracked hed and chose to fix the head. The car should be back on the road soon. However, I am one who strongly believes that the number of failed engines is a pretty high percentage, and that Porsche has been trying to hide the real number of failures and the source(s) of the failures. I also think that there have been a significant number of reman engines that have failed.

However, the problem with talking to Jake Raby, or just about any other mechanic is that the engines they tend to see are the failed ones, not the good ones. So of the thousands ( and I believe that there have been thousands of the engines go bad) of engines that have been replaced, the ones Jake sees are the ones that have failed again, not the ones that keep running. So the perception you get is going to be skewed by that.

The only way we could all really have reasonably good numbers on failed engines, and the casues of the failures is if Porsche would share this information, and that isn't ever going to happen.

Edited June 20, 2009 by Dharn55

[BruceP]

Original motor on my car, 94,000 km or so. I just did the IMS bearing upgrade retrofit last week. When the techs took things apart, two things: The IMS seal was starting to leak (only visible once the block and tranny were separated, no leaks visible from outside), and the IMS tube itself was filled with oil.

The engine was a very strong running 3.4, trouble free. But it turns out it was probably only a matter of time.

[BruceP]

In all my readings on the forums to date, I have never heard of someone posting directly their experiences of a reman engine failing. Very unscientific research, but it's something.

Do a Rennlist search. There is at least one member there who has had a reman fail. My understanding is that the IMS seal design has been updated a few times over the life of this engine, so people who got new motors early on might not enjoy the same confidence as those who had them done more recently.

[Dharn55]

The problem with the IMS is not so much the seal as the bearing. Yes the seals have been updated, I just put the new Porsche flange and seal on my IMS in my 2000, but the bearing is still the same. LN Engineering has a bearing upgrade (also a full IMS upgrade, but that required tearing down the engine). In 2000 Porsche used the dual row bearing, and the replacment of these is more of a challenge than the single row bearings, although LN will have special tools for this soon (they say). I could not wait as I wanted to get my car back together. A eaking seal can be a sing of a bearing starting to go bad, but not always so, and bearings good bad without a leaking seal. Porsche hasw never really solved the problem with the bearing, depsite revising it a few times.

[BruceP]

The problem with the IMS is not so much the seal as the bearing. Yes the seals have been updated, I just put the new Porsche flange and seal on my IMS in my 2000, but the bearing is still the same. LN Engineering has a bearing upgrade (also a full IMS upgrade, but that required tearing down the engine). In 2000 Porsche used the dual row bearing, and the replacment of these is more of a challenge than the single row bearings, although LN will have special tools for this soon (they say). I could not wait as I wanted to get my car back together. A eaking seal can be a sing of a bearing starting to go bad, but not always so, and bearings good bad without a leaking seal. Porsche hasw never really solved the problem with the bearing, depsite revising it a few times.

As I understand it, the theory about the seal issue is this: If the IMS tube fills with oil, then it can become unbalanced as it spins. My own (uneducated) belief is that this is the reason that so many failure stories happen at low rpms.

In any case, the IMS design was a workaround to save them producing separate right and left heads. As most workarounds do, it had flaws. I think the bearing and the seal are both examples.

See my post above regarding the LN Engineering bearing upgrade. Just had it done, and happy to answer any questions that I can if you're considering it.

[Benjamin Choi]

In all my readings on the forums to date, I have never heard of someone posting directly their experiences of a reman engine failing. Very unscientific research, but it's something.

Do a Rennlist search. There is at least one member there who has had a reman fail. My understanding is that the IMS seal design has been updated a few times over the life of this engine, so people who got new motors early on might not enjoy the same confidence as those who had them done more recently.

Do a Rennlist search. There are countless numbers of failed original engines v. at "least one member". IIRC, that one member wasn't very forthright or clear about the issues that caused the failure again. The post was fairly murky at best.

Again, it's all speculation until Porsche shares with us what they know which is a lot more than any forum based research.

Who knows what they do exactly with the reman engines? All I know is, it's very very rare to hear stories of remans failing especially when set against the number of original engines going kaput.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Benjamin Choi

[BruceP]

All I know is, it's very very rare to hear stories of remans failing especially when set against the number of original engines going kaput.

Statistically inevitable. Even if they failed at the same rate, it would still be 'rare' just based on how few remans are out there. We just don't know.

My point is simply this: Every M96 is a potential failure, because they all share the same design. What changes on a case by case basis is simply your odds. You have to do what you can, and then forget about it. The certain comfort you're looking for isn't available.

I held my own 9 year old IMS bearing in my hands last night. It was in like-new condition. What was failing on my engine was the IMS seal. Given Porsche's history with the rear main seal, for example, I'd say that there's no case for "new is good, old is bad." I'd say there is a case for "new is better, old is worse. Maybe."

[RFM]

All the factory rebuild engines MY 2006 > have the latest updates and are very reliable, you can count on your fingers the broken M 96/97 engines since MY 2006.

[Benjamin Choi]

All I know is, it's very very rare to hear stories of remans failing especially when set against the number of original engines going kaput.

Statistically inevitable. Even if they failed at the same rate, it would still be 'rare' just based on how few remans are out there. We just don't know.

My point is simply this: Every M96 is a potential failure, because they all share the same design. What changes on a case by case basis is simply your odds. You have to do what you can, and then forget about it. The certain comfort you're looking for isn't available.

I held my own 9 year old IMS bearing in my hands last night. It was in like-new condition. What was failing on my engine was the IMS seal. Given Porsche's history with the rear main seal, for example, I'd say that there's no case for "new is good, old is bad." I'd say there is a case for "new is better, old is worse. Maybe."

I know the typical stat professor's response and sure we get it.

But at the end of the day no one has the data to bring up meaningful stats in the first place. it's obvious from a business and pride standpoint that porsche is going to do whatever they can to ship out an engine to someone who already has a very bad taste in their mouth that's as good as it gets. sure, porsche's a business in it to make $, but certainly they have some vested interest in not F-ing up the second time around.

so, my point/opinion/belief is, reman>original. peace of mind. go out and enjoy the drive. if original, consider doing what u did for POM.