Engine Rebuild

[joselvelez]

Hello Everyone,

I am a new Porsche owner! I just purchased a 2002 Boxster S with 45k miles and I am the 3rd owner. The car drives like a dream.

With that said, I have been reading about IMS and RMS issues in various websites and forums. They are quite scary and I am finding myself driving with a bit of paranoia as I am nearing the 50k mile mark.

I have very little knowledge of cars but I am prepared to get my hands dirty and do as much work on the car myself as possible. Something I am considering is locating a used 3.2L engine and beginning a slow (I'm talking years here or whenever/if ever my new baby experience IMS or RMS hell) rebuild process.

I am fortunate to have a place to store the extra parts as well as many of the tools that might be necessary. My father is a passionate Alfa Romeo collector and I can keep the 'emergency engine' stored in our stable with our Land Rovers and Alfa Romeos. I know this might sound quite extreme but if I can find an engine for a good price and in small steps work to rebuild it and keep it handy just in case why not?

If I make it to 200,000 miles then I will have a fresh replacement at the ready. I have every intention of driving the hell out of this car and I dont want to worry about putting mileage on it.

I wanted to get some pointers/feedback from the community about my thoughts.

Going back to the IMS and RMS problems, how hard would it be to pull the transmission and inspect those items? Would it not be cheaper to do that than risk a failure?

Thanks all and I am looking forward to a long and enjoyable Porsche experience.

Jose L. Velez

Dallas, Texas

[macsak]

do an archives search for LN or jake raby

there is also an online guide with you tube videos to a boxster engine rebuild

someone also did one on ppbb.com

someone will show up soon and point it out to you

aloha

steve

Hello Everyone,

I am a new Porsche owner! I just purchased a 2002 Boxster S with 45k miles and I am the 3rd owner. The car drives like a dream.

With that said, I have been reading about IMS and RMS issues in various websites and forums. They are quite scary and I am finding myself driving with a bit of paranoia as I am nearing the 50k mile mark.

I have very little knowledge of cars but I am prepared to get my hands dirty and do as much work on the car myself as possible. Something I am considering is locating a used 3.2L engine and beginning a slow (I'm talking years here or whenever/if ever my new baby experience IMS or RMS hell) rebuild process.

I am fortunate to have a place to store the extra parts as well as many of the tools that might be necessary. My father is a passionate Alfa Romeo collector and I can keep the 'emergency engine' stored in our stable with our Land Rovers and Alfa Romeos. I know this might sound quite extreme but if I can find an engine for a good price and in small steps work to rebuild it and keep it handy just in case why not?

If I make it to 200,000 miles then I will have a fresh replacement at the ready. I have every intention of driving the hell out of this car and I dont want to worry about putting mileage on it.

I wanted to get some pointers/feedback from the community about my thoughts.

Going back to the IMS and RMS problems, how hard would it be to pull the transmission and inspect those items? Would it not be cheaper to do that than risk a failure?

Thanks all and I am looking forward to a long and enjoyable Porsche experience.

Jose L. Velez

Dallas, Texas

[joselvelez]

Thanks Steve! I will look those names up.

Jose

do an archives search for LN or jake raby

there is also an online guide with you tube videos to a boxster engine rebuild

someone also did one on ppbb.com

someone will show up soon and point it out to you

aloha

steve

Hello Everyone,

I am a new Porsche owner! I just purchased a 2002 Boxster S with 45k miles and I am the 3rd owner. The car drives like a dream.

With that said, I have been reading about IMS and RMS issues in various websites and forums. They are quite scary and I am finding myself driving with a bit of paranoia as I am nearing the 50k mile mark.

I have very little knowledge of cars but I am prepared to get my hands dirty and do as much work on the car myself as possible. Something I am considering is locating a used 3.2L engine and beginning a slow (I'm talking years here or whenever/if ever my new baby experience IMS or RMS hell) rebuild process.

I am fortunate to have a place to store the extra parts as well as many of the tools that might be necessary. My father is a passionate Alfa Romeo collector and I can keep the 'emergency engine' stored in our stable with our Land Rovers and Alfa Romeos. I know this might sound quite extreme but if I can find an engine for a good price and in small steps work to rebuild it and keep it handy just in case why not?

If I make it to 200,000 miles then I will have a fresh replacement at the ready. I have every intention of driving the hell out of this car and I dont want to worry about putting mileage on it.

I wanted to get some pointers/feedback from the community about my thoughts.

Going back to the IMS and RMS problems, how hard would it be to pull the transmission and inspect those items? Would it not be cheaper to do that than risk a failure?

Thanks all and I am looking forward to a long and enjoyable Porsche experience.

Jose L. Velez

Dallas, Texas

[dtownmil]

I don't think that's a bad idea at all. I too have the IMS and RMS concerns, though I think it's mostly just paranoia. Flat 6 Innovations sells rebuilt, bored over engines, but they are pricey, like $11-$15K. Their rebuilds have a new style IMS bearing that does not seem to have the concern of one day imploding.

One Porsche dealer told me that Porsche has changed the design of the RMS design several times and that once you have it replaced, it won't be a problem anymore. Any truth to that? I've also seen people who've had the problem several times.

Dispite the concerns in the back of my mind that my RMS is going to destroy my clutch, my IMS bearing will go and my engine will be toast...the car is such a joy to drive and I try not to let it get to me.

Not every Boxster spontaneously combusts..right? Hopefully there's just more hype out there that gets everyone stirred up.

[phillipj]

Jose,

I think it is a great idea. Especially if you like to do things yourself. I had my 3.4 expire in my Carrera. I would have been a happy camper if I would have had a spare motor in the barn!! :D

Of course a small percentage of Porsche motors blow up but if are one he few it happens to it really pi$$es you off :angry:

My advice (RMS,IMS) would be just to keep on top of the maintenence schedule, change the oil every 3 to 5k and enjoy the car. Many Boxster owners have never had one single issue with their cars.

Good luck with your project and I love your attitude!!

:welcome:

Edited June 2, 2009 by phillipj

[Jake Raby]

This engine is nothing like you have experienced before... I have worked on most everything from Ford tractors to Diesels, and Turbine engines in aircraft as well as most every VW and Porsche Engine (with exception of the rare 908,917 and etc) produced including the 4 cam Carrera engine.. The M96 is by far the most challenging beast I have touched to date..

We are working on our DIY engine kit program complete with 6 hours of instructional DVD now and hope to have the program honed for the most popular engines by the end of 2009. Without this sort of assistance and direction the normal and even well experienced DIY assembler can't do this job right the first time.

For an idea of just what lies in store without our direction see how I build this M96 from scratch into a 240 HP performer..

If you can't do surgery without the use of optical assistance and don't have extreme patience this isn't the engine for you to assemble. It will test your every nerve and even most professional Porsche Technicians at Dealerships can't do it without calling me for assistance at some point. Their directives are few and until recently they were not doing ANY internal work. I'd be happy to help you assemble one and update it as well.

http://www.flat6innovations.com/engine-assembly

Here is one of my charts from yesterday.. This engine started life as a 3.2 Boxster S engine that was subject to our updates and enhancements. This power was made at the rear wheels, on pump gas with stock induction. I drove it home last night and averaged 28 MPG, coolant temp data logged at 178 average and it was 87 degrees out... Yet again, this WAS a stock 3.2 that still has 3.2 heads! I am continuing to tune this engine now, it was a tad lean in a few places in the below plots.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Jake Raby

[joselvelez]

Jack,

I have no doubt that a rebuild will be challenging. That is why I am considering starting the process now while I am not in any hurry to get back on the road. :) I would definitely like to order your video when it comes available.

Looking at your chart it looks like the power is maxing out around 5500 RPMs? (I am probably not reading the chart correctly, I've never seen this before).

Anyone know where I can pick up a used 3.2L engine for $1,500.00??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[phillipj]

You can probably get a blown 3.2 for that much (or less.) I sold my 3.4 core for $1000 which probably had a cracked head (oil/water intermix.) Since you are going to rebuild it anyway it might be a good way to go.

In Jakes dyno chart his motor is the dark red line not the purple one. Looks like his engine maxes out at about 6300 rpm. Those are pretty impressive numbers for a stock motor :clapping:

Edited June 2, 2009 by phillipj

[Jake Raby]

I started working with these engines as a challenge.. The fact that no one had done it before was the biggest driving factor! The road to education was hard and still is as we apply more and more developments to the engine, but now we have overcome the major issues and have our own directives and procedures.

Peak HP on the engine above is at 6,500 RPM, but whats more impressive than the HP is the torque and how flat it is, 53 lb/ft of torque at the rear wheels is HUGE and let me tell you, this can drives great!! Its not peaky, just has power everywhere!

I have a core 3.2 and a 40,000 mile 3.2 available..

[joselvelez]

Please forgive my ignorance. What is a core and how is it different from a used engine?

[Jake Raby]

A "core" is an engine that is rebuildable but also needs to be rebuilt!!

[joselvelez]

May I ask what you would sell it for (the 3.2L)? Do you have pictures?

Edited June 2, 2009 by joselvelez

[Jake Raby]

Which one?? the good used one or the core that needs rebuild?

Please email me at info@flat6innovations.com

[gmanz]

Just for frame of reference I found my used 3.2 from OK foreign on Ebay. With shipping it was just under $5000. The engine came very complete, but they do require a core. I think that you would spend well over $3000 on the overhaul along with the engine core you would be close to the cost of a used engine. Mine had 60K miles on it and so far, knock on wood, it has been great. I would love to get the flat 6 innovations upgrades 286hp to the wheels. :rolleyes:

[txhokie4life]

Just for frame of reference I found my used 3.2 from OK foreign on Ebay. With shipping it was just under $5000. The engine came very complete, but they do require a core. I think that you would spend well over $3000 on the overhaul along with the engine core you would be close to the cost of a used engine. Mine had 60K miles on it and so far, knock on wood, it has been great. I would love to get the flat 6 innovations upgrades 286hp to the wheels. :rolleyes:

If you are in/around Austin, Texas -- the mechanic that did my 3.2S would love the work and

is very reasonable in cost. I got to help him -- and it is quite a project and a lot of fun.

BTW, we've used one of LnEngineering's IMS' and she's purring like a kitten.

Not for the feignht of heart -- but a lot of fun to work on and she's running great!

We've got all the tools to work on the M96, would love to rebuild another one.

M

Edited June 3, 2009 by txhokie4life

[mikefocke]

This makes no sense to me....

You have an engine that runs. And you have some $ in your pocket. You can invest that $ in an engine that will sit around and deteriorate. Or you can take that money, put it away for the off chance that you need a new or rebuilt engine.

The chance of your needing a new engine this year is less than 10%. In the next 3 years less than 20%. (I'm guessing, no one knows for sure.)

Say your engine blows in 3 years. The rebuilding process will be better by then, more people will do it, the price will come down and more improved parts will be available and we'll know more about what parts work and what don't by then.

So, to me, starting a rebuild now (unless you really need to) is not the right thing to do. Save, invest, wait. The odds and time are in your favor.

I figure the odds of totaling a Boxster are greater than the odds of an engine blowing. And those odds get better over time as the value of our Boxsters declines and the cost of repairs goes up. As that happens, it makes less sense to repair and more sense to the insurance company to "total" the car and send its parts to the wrecking yard. So running engines will be available.

I have a '01S 3.2 also. I've watched Jake's progress at flat6innovations with much interest. I think many of his techniques and LN's parts make sense. And if I needed them, I'd go there. But I'm playing the odds, changing my oil and investing my $.

Not to mention that I'd want an engine disassembled/assembled by someone doing it for the 40th time, not the first. This isn't the easiest engine to work on. It would be too easy to buy an engine, get started on the rebuilding, buy more parts, reassemble the engine and you have done something wrong and it blows up and you have wasted your time and $ and have no warranty backing you. Not saying it can't be done because it has but I know not by me.

[phillipj]

Excellent point Mike