Intermediate Shaft Failure

[mpikounis]

A friend's MY04 996 recently had an intermediate shaft failure and he is now going for a replacement engine with an estimated cost of 15,000 euros. This got me worried and I thought I should ask the more experienced about this.

1. Is there a way to check whether your car is close to failing?

2. Is there some preventive work that can be done (perhaps during a clutch replacement) for this type of failure?

3. Is there something that the owner did wrong and got this failure (eg forgot to replace oil in time, oil level was too low, etc)?

I have MY03 cabrio and lately I find myself taking it too easy with the car, subconsciously worried - this is not good!

[BruceP]

A friend's MY04 996 recently had an intermediate shaft failure and he is now going for a replacement engine with an estimated cost of 15,000 euros. This got me worried and I thought I should ask the more experienced about this.

1. Is there a way to check whether your car is close to failing?

2. Is there some preventive work that can be done (perhaps during a clutch replacement) for this type of failure?

3. Is there something that the owner did wrong and got this failure (eg forgot to replace oil in time, oil level was too low, etc)?

I have MY03 cabrio and lately I find myself taking it too easy with the car, subconsciously worried - this is not good!

1. Not without disassembly. Some believe that oil present inside the shaft is an early warning, but this isn't conclusive and in any case requires taking the thing out.

2. There are now aftermarket bearing upgrades for the IMS which are supposed to be more up to the job. It's not known if this solution will stand the test of time, but the argument for them is persuasive. (I'm having this done next month). In the meantime, most agree that the only preventative maintenance involves oiling: frequent changes, attention to level, correct viscosity.

3. There is no data on this. The fundamental issue is clearly in design and materials spec, not usage. I've seen no pattern at all in how owners with failed engines drove their cars relative to the Porsche universe.

Whatever you do, I wouldn't bother babying the car. Just take care of it. If it's going to happen, it's going to happen. I find it interesting how many failures, in fact, have occurred in low speed, low rpm situations.

[1schoir]

A friend's MY04 996 recently had an intermediate shaft failure and he is now going for a replacement engine with an estimated cost of 15,000 euros. This got me worried and I thought I should ask the more experienced about this.

1. Is there a way to check whether your car is close to failing?

2. Is there some preventive work that can be done (perhaps during a clutch replacement) for this type of failure?

3. Is there something that the owner did wrong and got this failure (eg forgot to replace oil in time, oil level was too low, etc)?

I have MY03 cabrio and lately I find myself taking it too easy with the car, subconsciously worried - this is not good!

mpikounis:

Visit the LNEngineering.com website for lots of detailed information on the IMS issue and some possible solutions.

Also take a look at the Flat6innovations.com website for additional options.

The more you get yourself educated about this issue, the less you will worry about it.

More frequent oil changes than those recommended by the factory are a no-brainer.

Regards, Maurice.

[BruceP]

More frequent oil changes than those recommended by the factory are a no-brainer.

Totally agree. There is so much myth around this subject. But the fact is that the oil change intervals set by manufacturers are the longest they think they can get away with. The reason is that they pay environmental levies based partly on the resources consumed by a car during its service life. Fewer mandated oil changes means lower levies. They are managing this cost against the risk of warranty claims, whereas an owner just wants his car to last.

[Benjamin Choi]

This happens WAY TOO OFTEN. :)

[1999Porsche911]

More frequent oil changes than those recommended by the factory are a no-brainer.

Totally agree. There is so much myth around this subject. But the fact is that the oil change intervals set by manufacturers are the longest they think they can get away with. The reason is that they pay environmental levies based partly on the resources consumed by a car during its service life. Fewer mandated oil changes means lower levies. They are managing this cost against the risk of warranty claims, whereas an owner just wants his car to last.

I would suggest a more protective oil is more important than the frequency of the changes. Mobil 0W40 simply does not have the film strength of many other oils. All engines have loosness and some degree of balance problems. Unless you have the proper film strength in the oil between the moving parts, the constant pounding will eventually create too much heat and occasional contact of the componants. Compound the loosness with constant changes in torque, an inferior oil will eventually lead to problems.

[Benjamin Choi]

More frequent oil changes than those recommended by the factory are a no-brainer.

Totally agree. There is so much myth around this subject. But the fact is that the oil change intervals set by manufacturers are the longest they think they can get away with. The reason is that they pay environmental levies based partly on the resources consumed by a car during its service life. Fewer mandated oil changes means lower levies. They are managing this cost against the risk of warranty claims, whereas an owner just wants his car to last.

I would suggest a more protective oil is more important than the frequency of the changes. Mobil 0W40 simply does not have the film strength of many other oils. All engines have loosness and some degree of balance problems. Unless you have the proper film strength in the oil between the moving parts, the constant pounding will eventually create too much heat and occasional contact of the componants. Compound the loosness with constant changes in torque, an inferior oil will eventually lead to problems.

Nothing personal here...

But complete unfounded BS, you just don't know when to stop do you?

It's been documented by Porsche that 15w is NOT a recommended oil weight for the M96. Many Porsche dealers and many more indy shops use 0w-40 and for good reason. It's what Porsche engineers put time and energy and $ to deliver.

Who are you to recommend 15w on Porsche forums thereby exposing unsuspecting newbies to your vitriol? The more you push 15w, the more mental you become. What's highly convenient is you have not the $ or time or skills top back your 15w cheerleading hubris on my M96, Loren's M96, phillip's M96, Nancy's M96.

All you got is your keyboard and a broadband connection just like the rest of us.

:)

Edited May 15, 2009 by Benjamin Choi

[1999Porsche911]

More frequent oil changes than those recommended by the factory are a no-brainer.

Totally agree. There is so much myth around this subject. But the fact is that the oil change intervals set by manufacturers are the longest they think they can get away with. The reason is that they pay environmental levies based partly on the resources consumed by a car during its service life. Fewer mandated oil changes means lower levies. They are managing this cost against the risk of warranty claims, whereas an owner just wants his car to last.

I would suggest a more protective oil is more important than the frequency of the changes. Mobil 0W40 simply does not have the film strength of many other oils. All engines have loosness and some degree of balance problems. Unless you have the proper film strength in the oil between the moving parts, the constant pounding will eventually create too much heat and occasional contact of the componants. Compound the loosness with constant changes in torque, an inferior oil will eventually lead to problems.

Nothing personal here...

But complete unfounded BS, you just don't know when to stop do you?

It's been documented by Porsche that 15w is NOT a recommended oil weight for the M96. Many Porsche dealers and many more indy shops use 0w-40 and for good reason. It's what Porsche engineers put time and energy and $ to deliver.

Who are you to recommend 15w on Porsche forums thereby exposing unsuspecting newbies to your vitriol? The more you push 15w, the more mental you become. What's highly convenient is you have not the $ or time or skills top back your 15w cheerleading hubris on my M96, Loren's M96, phillip's M96, Nancy's M96.

All you got is your keyboard and a broadband connection just like the rest of us.

:)

Did I mention 15W oil? BTW, since you like using other people's names to drive home your point, some of those people you mentioned use 15W50.

Edited May 15, 2009 by 1999Porsche911

[phillipj]

Lets be nice here. It accomplishes nothing to attack eachother in a forum. Everyone has their opinion. That is the purpose of the forum correct? This oil debate is a personal choice. The best advice is to change our oil more frequently whatever oil we choose.

Can't we all just get along?? :rolleyes:

[Benjamin Choi]

More frequent oil changes than those recommended by the factory are a no-brainer.

Totally agree. There is so much myth around this subject. But the fact is that the oil change intervals set by manufacturers are the longest they think they can get away with. The reason is that they pay environmental levies based partly on the resources consumed by a car during its service life. Fewer mandated oil changes means lower levies. They are managing this cost against the risk of warranty claims, whereas an owner just wants his car to last.

I would suggest a more protective oil is more important than the frequency of the changes. Mobil 0W40 simply does not have the film strength of many other oils. All engines have loosness and some degree of balance problems. Unless you have the proper film strength in the oil between the moving parts, the constant pounding will eventually create too much heat and occasional contact of the componants. Compound the loosness with constant changes in torque, an inferior oil will eventually lead to problems.

Nothing personal here...

But complete unfounded BS, you just don't know when to stop do you?

It's been documented by Porsche that 15w is NOT a recommended oil weight for the M96. Many Porsche dealers and many more indy shops use 0w-40 and for good reason. It's what Porsche engineers put time and energy and $ to deliver.

Who are you to recommend 15w on Porsche forums thereby exposing unsuspecting newbies to your vitriol? The more you push 15w, the more mental you become. What's highly convenient is you have not the $ or time or skills top back your 15w cheerleading hubris on my M96, Loren's M96, phillip's M96, Nancy's M96.

All you got is your keyboard and a broadband connection just like the rest of us.

:)

Did I mention 15W oil? BTW, since you like using other people's names to drive home your point, some of those people you mentioned use 15W50.

Try a search on 15w here and on Rennlist. Your name pops up in the resulting threads more often than the name Jordan pops up when you search for the Greatest of All Time on NBA.com.

It's one thing if a dude chooses to run 15w full well understanding that it is NOT on Porsche's recommended list. It is a crime to push 15w on unsuspecting owners who come here for good information. You've switched your game up recently to say 5w or 15w I've noticed to cover your bases. Sneaky, but not really.

So audience, just imagine someone with an IMS failure on a CPO M96... just imagine that's you... and you ambulate on over to your local Porsche service center and they ask you: "What oil do you use on your car?"

LOL This guy named 1999Porsche911 on an internet forum said it's all good and called 0w-40 Mobil water so I've been running 15w.

You going to own up to that and give him your contact info? Commiserate over the phone at a minimum?

:) It's nothing personal, just sharing the other side of the equation here. It just doesn't add up.

[Loren]

Everyone here has a right to express their opinion - personal attacks, name calling or harassment of any kind directed towards another member or members will not be tolerated.

Warnings have been issued - if they are not heeded then those individuals will be banned from this site.

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