BMW M3 10W-60 Oil for 02 996 3.6

[Benjamin Choi]

I have had many cars over the years, and have NEVER added oil between oil changes, including my Porsche.

With my 2006 987S I did the following:

1) Religiously followed the break-in procedure (not easy to do!)

2) Changed the oil at the 1,000 mile mark (I think this is a good thing and worth the $$)

3) My last 3 oil changes (yearly) have been with Red Line 5W40

there seems to be this popular notion, a follow the leader mentality that an engine that does not burn oil is somehow better than an engine that does when in fact the only downside with the latter is the annoyance factor in topping off oil however frequently you need to do it. more greater the frequency the more annoying it gets.

so long as it's within porsche's allowance, i wouldn't be afraid of the engine... with that said.... porsche's allowance requires a lot of annoying time spent topping off plus expense.

my S54 M3 engine burned oil. it dynoed higher than any stock S54 at the dyno day here back several years ago. my f20c honda engine burned oil. same dyno results relative to others. i followed the break-in guidelines to a tee. so me making the claim that an engine that does burn moderate amounts of oil means greater relative power output... it's just as absurd of a claim/notion that it's somehow better, more desireable to have an engine that does burn oil.

good luck with your "issue". not many porsches that i've read about burn as much oil as yours. it seems excessive. but again the answer is not running oil weights/brands not on porsche's recommended list.

your engines made more HP because they were loose... oval cylinders... worn rings... so less friction... hence more HP... you know what they say.... they run the strongest just before they blow!! just like a higher mileage engine performing better... once its broken in its a lot faster... its looser... but oil burning @ 1 quart per 600 miles means something else is wrong...

all the engines have run perfectly since i still know the owners i sold the car to and my m96 has likely had less issues than yours IIRC. let's be real here and not cry wolf.

[c70Pete]

I have had many cars over the years, and have NEVER added oil between oil changes, including my Porsche.

With my 2006 987S I did the following:

1) Religiously followed the break-in procedure (not easy to do!)

2) Changed the oil at the 1,000 mile mark (I think this is a good thing and worth the $$)

3) My last 3 oil changes (yearly) have been with Red Line 5W40

there seems to be this popular notion, a follow the leader mentality that an engine that does not burn oil is somehow better than an engine that does when in fact the only downside with the latter is the annoyance factor in topping off oil however frequently you need to do it. more greater the frequency the more annoying it gets.

so long as it's within porsche's allowance, i wouldn't be afraid of the engine... with that said.... porsche's allowance requires a lot of annoying time spent topping off plus expense.

my S54 M3 engine burned oil. it dynoed higher than any stock S54 at the dyno day here back several years ago. my f20c honda engine burned oil. same dyno results relative to others. i followed the break-in guidelines to a tee. so me making the claim that an engine that does burn moderate amounts of oil means greater relative power output... it's just as absurd of a claim/notion that it's somehow better, more desireable to have an engine that does burn oil.

good luck with your "issue". not many porsches that i've read about burn as much oil as yours. it seems excessive. but again the answer is not running oil weights/brands not on porsche's recommended list.

your engines made more HP because they were loose... oval cylinders... worn rings... so less friction... hence more HP... you know what they say.... they run the strongest just before they blow!! just like a higher mileage engine performing better... once its broken in its a lot faster... its looser... but oil burning @ 1 quart per 600 miles means something else is wrong...

all the engines have run perfectly since i still know the owners i sold the car to and my m96 has likely had less issues than yours IIRC. let's be real here and not cry wolf.

so I guess you and your owners constitute a statistically representative sample...? :clapping: and I never had any issues with my car... it was a heavily tracked C2 that just had bearing failure one day due to the bad design of the 3.4 and oil starvation... and yes it was burning oil... lots of it... but boy was it fast... it was faster than a 3.6 on the Andretti straitaway @ mosport... and at the track that day it burned a full 2 litres in 2 hours... cry wolf... ? where have you been? this is a well documented problem in these engines...

even @ Sebring lots of the 3.4 (including the new cayman s) pop their motors due to oil starvation... X-51 oil pan fixes that or definitely prolongs it (I know this for a fact from guys who track down there) and even the 3.6 are affected @ Sebring... with similar symptoms... you want to burn oil... ok say 1 quart every 6-7000 miles would be acceptable... if your tracking hard... running the engine hot etc... but every six hundred miles... yah right ... looks like Porsche don't want to solve their problem...

lets see how the current crop of DFI 3.6 and 3.8 motors do with oil burning... so far from what I"m hearing they are ALL oil burners... lets see how long they last...

smoke crack?

[Loren]

ALL - Stop the personal comments here please.

Re-read the board Rules/Guidelines if you are unclear.

[Jon996]

So all, are there some technical recommendations to check if you are on the high-end of oil consumption? So far I have seen the following being recommended:

AOS check or replacement

Compression test

Leak-down test

What would you recommend next if you pass all of these (and replace the AOS)? Perhaps change plugs and have the cylinders borescoped at the same time?

How do you check the valve guide seals?

Thanks :renntech:

Edited May 3, 2009 by Jon996

[1999Porsche911]

So all, are there some technical recommendations to check if you are on the high-end of oil consumption? So far I have seen the following being recommended:

AOS check or replacement

Compression test

Leak-down test

What would you recommend next if you pass all of these (and replace the AOS)? Perhaps change plugs and have the cylinders borescoped at the same time?

How do you check the valve guide seals?

Thanks :renntech:

Seems to me, the cheapest way to attempt to reduce or eliminate your burning is to fill the crankcase with Mobil Extended Performance 15W50 and drive the car hard. I would also recommend (whether you change the oil or not) to bring the car up to redline and let the engine brake it back down to. Repeat this a few times and do it periodically to keep cylinder walls clean and smooth. This can drastically reduce oil burning when oil is getting past the rings.

[c70Pete]

So all, are there some technical recommendations to check if you are on the high-end of oil consumption? So far I have seen the following being recommended:

AOS check or replacement

Compression test

Leak-down test

What would you recommend next if you pass all of these (and replace the AOS)? Perhaps change plugs and have the cylinders borescoped at the same time?

How do you check the valve guide seals?

Thanks :renntech:

Seems to me, the cheapest way to attempt to reduce or eliminate your burning is to fill the crankcase with Mobil Extended Performance 15W50 and drive the car hard. I would also recommend (whether you change the oil or not) to bring the car up to redline and let the engine brake it back down to. Repeat this a few times and do it periodically to keep cylinder walls clean and smooth. This can drastically reduce oil burning when oil is getting past the rings.

well what about breaking in a new new re-man engine.... they fill it with 0W40..... take it to red line on the first day? I've heard for performance its good and also seats the rings properly... 1999Porsche911... what do you think about this technique?

[1999Porsche911]

So all, are there some technical recommendations to check if you are on the high-end of oil consumption? So far I have seen the following being recommended:

AOS check or replacement

Compression test

Leak-down test

What would you recommend next if you pass all of these (and replace the AOS)? Perhaps change plugs and have the cylinders borescoped at the same time?

How do you check the valve guide seals?

Thanks :renntech:

Seems to me, the cheapest way to attempt to reduce or eliminate your burning is to fill the crankcase with Mobil Extended Performance 15W50 and drive the car hard. I would also recommend (whether you change the oil or not) to bring the car up to redline and let the engine brake it back down to. Repeat this a few times and do it periodically to keep cylinder walls clean and smooth. This can drastically reduce oil burning when oil is getting past the rings.

well what about breaking in a new new re-man engine.... they fill it with 0W40..... take it to red line on the first day? I've heard for performance its good and also seats the rings properly... 1999Porsche911... what do you think about this technique?

I would remove the 0W40 and put in 15W50. I would then warm it up and test the rev limiter several time to make sure it worked properly. Engine breaking is as good, if not better for seating rings.

Edited May 3, 2009 by 1999Porsche911

[c70Pete]

So all, are there some technical recommendations to check if you are on the high-end of oil consumption? So far I have seen the following being recommended:

AOS check or replacement

Compression test

Leak-down test

What would you recommend next if you pass all of these (and replace the AOS)? Perhaps change plugs and have the cylinders borescoped at the same time?

How do you check the valve guide seals?

Thanks :renntech:

Seems to me, the cheapest way to attempt to reduce or eliminate your burning is to fill the crankcase with Mobil Extended Performance 15W50 and drive the car hard. I would also recommend (whether you change the oil or not) to bring the car up to redline and let the engine brake it back down to. Repeat this a few times and do it periodically to keep cylinder walls clean and smooth. This can drastically reduce oil burning when oil is getting past the rings.

well what about breaking in a new new re-man engine.... they fill it with 0W40..... take it to red line on the first day? I've heard for performance its good and also seats the rings properly... 1999Porsche911... what do you think about this technique?

I would remove the 0W40 and put in 15W50. I would then warm it up and test the rev limiter several time to make sure it worked properly. Engine breaking is as good, if not better for seating rings.

can I use mobil 1 5W50 instead? or is there a distinct advantage in going with 15W50 when breaking in a new motor?

[1999Porsche911]

So all, are there some technical recommendations to check if you are on the high-end of oil consumption? So far I have seen the following being recommended:

AOS check or replacement

Compression test

Leak-down test

What would you recommend next if you pass all of these (and replace the AOS)? Perhaps change plugs and have the cylinders borescoped at the same time?

How do you check the valve guide seals?

Thanks :renntech:

Seems to me, the cheapest way to attempt to reduce or eliminate your burning is to fill the crankcase with Mobil Extended Performance 15W50 and drive the car hard. I would also recommend (whether you change the oil or not) to bring the car up to redline and let the engine brake it back down to. Repeat this a few times and do it periodically to keep cylinder walls clean and smooth. This can drastically reduce oil burning when oil is getting past the rings.

well what about breaking in a new new re-man engine.... they fill it with 0W40..... take it to red line on the first day? I've heard for performance its good and also seats the rings properly... 1999Porsche911... what do you think about this technique?

I would remove the 0W40 and put in 15W50. I would then warm it up and test the rev limiter several time to make sure it worked properly. Engine breaking is as good, if not better for seating rings.

can I use mobil 1 5W50 instead? or is there a distinct advantage in going with 15W50 when breaking in a new motor?

15W50 Extended Performance has more phosphorus and zinc than 5W50 and keeps things cleaner. 5W50 is fine though.

Edited May 3, 2009 by 1999Porsche911

[White987S]

Can I use mobil 1 5W50 instead?

This is a Porsche approved oil. And the only 5W50 that is. Hard to find in the USA. I see it at Wal Mart when I go to Canada for business.

[Benjamin Choi]

I have had many cars over the years, and have NEVER added oil between oil changes, including my Porsche.

With my 2006 987S I did the following:

1) Religiously followed the break-in procedure (not easy to do!)

2) Changed the oil at the 1,000 mile mark (I think this is a good thing and worth the $$)

3) My last 3 oil changes (yearly) have been with Red Line 5W40

there seems to be this popular notion, a follow the leader mentality that an engine that does not burn oil is somehow better than an engine that does when in fact the only downside with the latter is the annoyance factor in topping off oil however frequently you need to do it. more greater the frequency the more annoying it gets.

so long as it's within porsche's allowance, i wouldn't be afraid of the engine... with that said.... porsche's allowance requires a lot of annoying time spent topping off plus expense.

my S54 M3 engine burned oil. it dynoed higher than any stock S54 at the dyno day here back several years ago. my f20c honda engine burned oil. same dyno results relative to others. i followed the break-in guidelines to a tee. so me making the claim that an engine that does burn moderate amounts of oil means greater relative power output... it's just as absurd of a claim/notion that it's somehow better, more desireable to have an engine that does burn oil.

good luck with your "issue". not many porsches that i've read about burn as much oil as yours. it seems excessive. but again the answer is not running oil weights/brands not on porsche's recommended list.

your engines made more HP because they were loose... oval cylinders... worn rings... so less friction... hence more HP... you know what they say.... they run the strongest just before they blow!! just like a higher mileage engine performing better... once its broken in its a lot faster... its looser... but oil burning @ 1 quart per 600 miles means something else is wrong...

all the engines have run perfectly since i still know the owners i sold the car to and my m96 has likely had less issues than yours IIRC. let's be real here and not cry wolf.

so I guess you and your owners constitute a statistically representative sample...? :clapping: and I never had any issues with my car... it was a heavily tracked C2 that just had bearing failure one day due to the bad design of the 3.4 and oil starvation... and yes it was burning oil... lots of it... but boy was it fast... it was faster than a 3.6 on the Andretti straitaway @ mosport... and at the track that day it burned a full 2 litres in 2 hours... cry wolf... ? where have you been? this is a well documented problem in these engines...

even @ Sebring lots of the 3.4 (including the new cayman s) pop their motors due to oil starvation... X-51 oil pan fixes that or definitely prolongs it (I know this for a fact from guys who track down there) and even the 3.6 are affected @ Sebring... with similar symptoms... you want to burn oil... ok say 1 quart every 6-7000 miles would be acceptable... if your tracking hard... running the engine hot etc... but every six hundred miles... yah right ... looks like Porsche don't want to solve their problem...

lets see how the current crop of DFI 3.6 and 3.8 motors do with oil burning... so far from what I"m hearing they are ALL oil burners... lets see how long they last...

smoke crack?

to stay on topic here and not revert to the usual hobby racer banter so popular with the track hobbyists...

-3.6 > 3.4

-my cars past and present did burn oil

-they all ran fine and put out good power relative to others well within manufacturer guidelines

-an engine that burns oil is normal and owners who do have engines that require topping off should NOT be alarmed as your post implies (typical internet crying wolf, alarmist style)

-recommending that others run 15w on the m96 is absolutely bad advice esp since the person recommending it certainly isn't going to put money where his mouth is

the OP's engine sounds like it's burning oil excessively and the answer to his problem is not to run BMW oil or 15w.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Benjamin Choi

[c70Pete]

to stay on topic here and not revert to the usual hobby racer banter so popular with the track hobbyists...

-3.6 > 3.4

-my cars past and present did burn oil

-they all ran fine and put out good power relative to others well within manufacturer guidelines

-an engine that burns oil is normal and owners who do have engines that require topping off should NOT be alarmed as your post implies (typical internet crying wolf, alarmist style)

-recommending that others run 15w on the m96 is absolutely bad advice esp since the person recommending it certainly isn't going to put money where his mouth is

the OP's engine sounds like it's burning oil excessively and the answer to his problem is not to run BMW oil or 15w.

curious how much oil does your reman burn?

[Benjamin Choi]

curious how much oil does your reman burn?

probably a quart every oil change (5K miles) - i tend to keep the revs high so to be quite clear... once warmed up shift at 4-4.5K usually... i don't hesitate to redline in appropriate circumstances. :)

my PSE gets heard, but within street legal limits of course. :)

so from a timeline perspective... a quart every 6 months. minimal annoyance level here.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Benjamin Choi

[c70Pete]

curious how much oil does your reman burn?

probably a quart every oil change (5K miles) - i tend to keep the revs high so to be quite clear... once warmed up shift at 4-4.5K usually... i don't hesitate to redline in appropriate circumstances. :)

my PSE gets heard, but within street legal limits of course. :)

so from a timeline perspective... a quart every 6 months. minimal annoyance level here.

that's not bad.... keep an eye on it and see if it gets worst over the next year...

do you track it? if so how frequently...?

[Benjamin Choi]

curious how much oil does your reman burn?

probably a quart every oil change (5K miles) - i tend to keep the revs high so to be quite clear... once warmed up shift at 4-4.5K usually... i don't hesitate to redline in appropriate circumstances. :)

my PSE gets heard, but within street legal limits of course. :)

so from a timeline perspective... a quart every 6 months. minimal annoyance level here.

that's not bad.... keep an eye on it and see if it gets worst over the next year...

do you track it? if so how frequently...?

i've never tracked the c4s and don't plan on it perhaps autox.

i've had the car for over 2 years and 25K+ miles... consistent and reliable... zero issues save for the 5 year old OEM battery and clutch switch.

[c70Pete]

i've never tracked the c4s and don't plan on it perhaps autox.

i've had the car for over 2 years and 25K+ miles... consistent and reliable... zero issues save for the 5 year old OEM battery and clutch switch.

except for the reman engine right? did it fail via IMS...?

[Benjamin Choi]

i've never tracked the c4s and don't plan on it perhaps autox.

i've had the car for over 2 years and 25K+ miles... consistent and reliable... zero issues save for the 5 year old OEM battery and clutch switch.

except for the reman engine right? did it fail via IMS...?

Yes, since my name is pretty well known around the forum circles, it's very clear that my car has a reman engine since I asked about the whole reman v. original thing back when I was like 2+ years ago. The original was replaced at 13K miles, but I'm not the original owner so I don't know the reasons why it was replaced.

My guess is they replaced it for RMS issues. IMS doesn't pop up that early usually based on just being active in the 911 online forum community. I may actually have a new factory engine.

[BruceP]

To the original poster: Just to add to your data, put me in the "something is wrong" column. My '00 is on its original motor, runs 0W40 Mobil 1 year round, and does not burn any oil at all. So it's possible, and it's surely desirable.

[c70Pete]

To the original poster: Just to add to your data, put me in the "something is wrong" column. My '00 is on its original motor, runs 0W40 Mobil 1 year round, and does not burn any oil at all. So it's possible, and it's surely desirable.

do you track it?

[BruceP]

To the original poster: Just to add to your data, put me in the "something is wrong" column. My '00 is on its original motor, runs 0W40 Mobil 1 year round, and does not burn any oil at all. So it's possible, and it's surely desirable.

do you track it?

No. I didn't think the OP did either, although he obviously drives it hard. Just offering another data point. :)