help with mysterious suspension clunk

[doug davis]

Yes, cost would be very interesting to me too! I'm guessing a thousand. It just seems like that's what they would hit you up for on a repair like this...

What was the cost, at what dealer. if you do not mind?

FINAL UPDATE:

Problem fixed! Took the car to the dealer who sold it to me. They replaced all 4 tierod ends (inner and outer). No more noise. Can't tell which one was the culprit but at least the noise is gone. Unfortunately, my super duper extended warentee did not include tierod ends (surprise LOL)) so I had to pay for the whole thing.

Thanks for all the help, I don't think they would have found it without my suggestions gleaned from this list.

Doug Davis

Gentlemen,

Total cost for the job was $1200 at Porsche of the Main Line. This included a 4 wheel alignment and 2 hours diagnostic time. They replaced all four tie rod ends (inner and outer). I was hoping to get the warentee to pay for it and since it was already at the dealer, I had them do it. It was expensive and I could have done it myself, but in the end I'm glad to have a very annoying problem fixed so I guess it was worth it.

Doug Davis

[ziiz996]

This is ridiculous for you to pay when you had a warranty onthe car!!!! THey should at least pay for 50%...

[doug davis]

This is ridiculous for you to pay when you had a warranty onthe car!!!! THey should at least pay for 50%...

Well it was an aftermarket warentee (ge capital) that they threw in with the purchase of the car. I got it mainly to cover RMS and IMS issues I was worried about. The warentee covers lots of stuff, but not some "wear items". For example in this case, it covered steering rack and suspension replacement, but not tie rod ends.

Aftermarket warentees are usually a rip off for these reasons. This one does cover seals and gaskets in the engine, so I'm hoping it will cover me in the event of a seal/engine failure.

I agree that they should have helped out, especially since I bought the car from them (Main Line Porsche, PA) and basically diagnosed the problem for them. But what are you giong to do. I still got a sweet 996 that is just about perfect for less than Toyota Camrey money, even after the cost of this repair.

Other than having to pay a s-load for this repair, I am actually quite happy with my experince with Main Line. They did a pretty good job and treated me well. I even got to drive a kick *** Cayanne S loaner while they fixed it.

Doug Davis

[Benjamin Choi]

I have this creaking noise when turning the steering wheel at low speeds and comes up only after the car's been warmed up and driven around for some time.

You think the inner/outer tie rod end replacement would rid of the noise?

[Rob in WA]

I have this creaking noise when turning the steering wheel at low speeds and comes up only after the car's been warmed up and driven around for some time.

You think the inner/outer tie rod end replacement would rid of the noise?

I have the same thing. My tech thinks it's tie rod ends too.

Ben, I saw the article you wrote for Spiel - Nice :)

[JD BOXSTER]

Any lock in finding the causes of the groaning and clunking? I am going thru the same thing with my 2000 986.

JD BOXSTER

[violaGT3]

Well this is a neat little cause and effect thread. I am going to troubleshoot a little clunk noticed from around the front passenger wheel (I believe) noticed when backing out of my drive. I've checked everything for looseness no such luck. I was thinking outer ball, but maybe this is the culprit. But I don't too often get to drive and I would notice it just pulling out of the drive, or so I think. . . I'll definately look into this.

Edited June 30, 2009 by ViolaGT3

[kerrymorris]

I had a similar issue with my 99 996 and found a strange solution.

The noise appeared to come from above the front right strut. Driving over speed bumps or turning uphill into my driveway produced the noise. I had 3rd party shops and the dealer look at the car, and all had different assessments. After replacing control arms and diagonal links, I took it to another 3rd party shop. What they discovered was too odd to discuss on the phone, so they asked me to come by.

The headliner and sunroof were removed from the car and I thought this was strange since it appeared to be a suspension issue. A test drive confirmed that the clicking noise was coming from the frame right above the right sun visor. Sitting in the passenger seat it was blatantly obvious this was the noise. I was dumbfounded.

A camera scope could not identify any broken welds or friction wear. I'm not exactly sure what material they used to fix the issue, but they did fix it. They used some type of expanding foam or caulk commonly used for automotive manufacturing that binds metal, but also had sound absorption properties. I call them to identify the exact product if someone identifies the same issue.

The detective work and fix cost me about $500.

[phillipj]

The lower Tie Rods are $61.35 on line at this place. I have bought a lot of parts from them.. http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/ind...&makeid1=29

Maybe Sunset has them for around the same price.

I need them for my car as well.. B)

Edited July 14, 2009 by phillipj

[moosey]

Guys I too have this clunk noise coming from the front suspension. I just had the X74 sport suspension installed and after about 200mils on it I noticed a clunk noise that only happens when going up my drive way. The noise happens has soon as I come into the drive way at an angle. I have the x74 on 02' 996 Targa. Any suggestions?

[perryinva]

The lower Tie Rods are $61.35 on line at this place. I have bought a lot of parts from them.. http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/ind...&makeid1=29

Maybe Sunset has them for around the same price.

I need them for my car as well.. B)

Nice, that's for the inners. The outers are only $52, so $114 a side, or $228 tota plus S&H. They state they are genuine Porsche, but that their S&H is higher than most as that is where all their profit is. Suncoast had quoted $250 the set in another post, so they are in-line. I'm getting a quote from Sunset, too.

Edited July 16, 2009 by perryinva

[Carrera-Fin]

Thanks a million Doug & Swede-man!

I had the exact same clunk on my '99 RoW C4 with factory original M030 suspension.

First I had the sway bar links replaced without any results.

If I hadn't checked this thread I would have replaced the suspension which would have cost a small fortune :huh:

I had both inner & outer tie rods replaced on both sides. Parts were 350€ at the local OPC. Installation with alignment took 1½ hours at an independent specialist.

[perryinva]

So can we assume that this eliminated the clunk?

[rennsport996001]

Greetings all,

I've had the EXACT problem with front end noise that meets these conditions:

1 - Car MUST be driven for more than 45 min to one hour in HOT weather (does not happen in cold weather). It ONLY occurs when the car is hot.

2 - Noise is very noticeable and audible at low speeds on uneven roads, not apparent on highway, and there is no suspension or steering issues - everything seems normal. The noise is related to up/down travel on the front end only (not related to steering, cornering or anything else). It can be felt in the steering wheel and feels exactly like some suspension part is loose.

I had the condition for several years on my 1999 996 c2 with only ~30K miles. It ruined the entire driving experience so I could not ignore it any longer. Brought it to the dealer who checked it out thoroughly, couldn't find anything wrong and suggested replacing the struts (cost = $1400+). Then took it to two Indy's, who also could not find anything wrong and wanted to replace struts also. So I did extensive research and concluded it was the Driver's Side Inner Tie Rod. So eventually I took it to an Indy and asked him to replace the Inner Tie Rod and boot. He did the job and said I was nuts because the the tie rod that came out looked fine. But this did solve the problem. I strongly suspect that the passenger side will fail also.

The key issue here is that mechanics cannot properly diagnose this problem because it is so unique to this car. The entire front end of water cooled Porsche's get very hot Certainly other things can fail in the front end and make noises but the telltale for this problem is that it only happens when the car is driven for a while and gets hot. The Inner tie rod part costs about $50 bucks and it's easy to replace (but you have to do an alignment).

I hope this helps and saves a lot of grief.

[perryinva]

I see it's been almost a year since this topic has been visited, and also saw I never followed up. Identical issue as described above with my '02 C2 with 47k miles on it, and has had the problem since I bought it 4 years ago with 30k miles, plus also had very loud and annoying "creaking wooden ship" syndrome, whenever the steering wheel, with any bump at all, was turned after the car warmed up. I replaced the struts with PSS9s, and ARBs with M030 ones, and the bushings were lubed with Krytox. All new rubber mounts and bearings on the upper strut mounts (used X74 for front), with Bilstein slip sheets at the spring perches. That eliminated all the groaning and creaking, but not what sounded like some kind of loose suspension part whenever the car was warmed up, including driving on the interstate for just 10 miles, and pulling into any parking lot, where the smallest bumps made what sounded like small deep rattle, barely felt in the steering wheel. Careful listening, and I could interpret the sound as a binding noise from something that "popped" in to position in small increments. I finally went and bought the Gudcraft Inner Tie Rod tool kit, $55 shipped from Amazon, that includes the 1 1/4" crow foot (equal to the required 32mm), and the $15 outer ball joint tool from Napa. TRW Inner and Outer tie rods were available, shipped, on line for ~$200 for the set of 4. They are a perfect match, hopefully improved some, over the Porsche ones, slightly beefier. With those tools, I was able to replace all 4 rod ends in about 90mins, the hardest part being removing the crimped SS band on the accordian boot, without damaging the boot. A #36 hose clamp replaces them perfectly. I counted the threads showing on each side and installed the new inners with red Loctite and the same number of threads showing, & the difference was easily felt just manually moving the parts around. Since I had recently lowered the suspension, & settled it in with the old tires and then installed new PS2s, I was going to get it aligned anyway, so I knew I had to replace the tie rods before that. When I took the car for a drive, the difference in the steering feel was palpable, and very much lighter/smoother, and after 30 minutes of driving where I was positive it would have made that same annoying sound, I am happy to report it is gone, gone, gone! The tie rods I removed, both inner and outer on both sides look perfect, boots are in excellent shape, & have they have zero play, but they just bind once warmed up. I figure I saved at least $1200 in labor costs doing the struts, ARBs, and tie rods myself, so I didn't feel as bad shelling out $1400 for the N3 PS2s (225/40 & 285/30-18s). Add me to the list of "Replace tie rod ends" to kill suspension noise.

Edited August 3, 2012 by perryinva

[OscarTango]

Same here... knocking sound/feel in the steering wheel, even on smooth surfaces... Mechanic alreayd hinted at the tie rods, so when the car's in  for the other stuff ( radiators, cvt-joint ) he'll have a look at it and replace if necessary. This is on a 2002 996 4s Coupe with 80000 miles on her.

[Hilux2400]

This is a very interesting thread. 

 

I have a 996 2003 C2 55k miles and also have a similar rattle.  On a number of occasions I thought I had cured it and certainly some of the work that I have done has reduced suspension rattles and creaks from other areas. I have done front and rear droplinks, checked the upper strut bearings and sprayed the metalelastic suspension bushes with silicon lubricant.  Definitely this has helped, but the slight persistent rattle is always there when the car is warm.  I always notice it when coming home and going slowly on the gravelled driveway.  What has foxed me is that there is nothing loose and the car always passes the annual test (MOT in UK). 

 

This is something to think about.  I don't really mind the rattle, as long as I know what is causing it.  I might be tempted to dig in and have a look. 

[Emonce]

I spent lots of money on the same issue. Two different German car specialty shops were unable to solve the problem even though they thought the parts they replaced would take care of the issue. The third shop, a small alignment shop with a conscientious owner, found worn lower control arms and control arm links. He let me purchase the parts on the internet and he replaced them at a very reasonable charge for his labor - problem solved.

[lphrg10]

Same, or similar, issue here. I have replaced all control arms (cup style with eccentric center bushing), and just installed M030 kit with new strut mounts and bearings. Also new swaybar droplinks. And still the car sounds like a wooden ship when going over small bumps at low speeds or cornering fast while inner wheel has suspension travel. I replaced inner and outer tie rods (TRW) about 5k miles / a year ago, but i guess they could be bad already. I don't remember this sound during winter time, so maybe it has something to do with the temperature indeed.

 

I'll report back if i find something.

[lphrg10]

I think i managed to get rid of the sound now, at least i haven't heard it since latest fixes. This is what I did:

Sprayed inner tie rod balls with silicon grease and then applied a PTFE based grease (Super Lube).

Applied copper paste on coffin arm contact surface to frame, and re-torqued.

Re-torqued subframe bolts to chassis.

Weather has changed to colder.

[ziiz996]

TO all those folks who experienced clunking problems AFTER upgrade/replacement of control arms of any sort.   99% most likely the install was not done properly.  There are Coffin Control Arms, Fork Control Arms and Drop Links.   They must be installed/ AND TORQUED  properly or you will hear the Clunks.