Rear main seal leak

[dch475]

I would be interested to get some feed back on rear main seal leakage in GT3s. I have a 2007 that has had the RMS changed twice and it is sitting at the dealership now after again noticing a daily oil drip. Service technicians are apparently awaiting communication from Porsche in Germany as to what should be done. I have gotten a preliminary message that this may be "normal." I have a lot of trouble buying this. I have had five Porsche before this including an 86 930 and a 92 968 among others, and have never had a drop of oil on my garage floor. If I am told that I have to keep cleaning oil off my floor after buying a $120,000 car there are going to be some heated discussions and legal advice. How many of you GT3 owners out there are having RMS oil seepage or leakage?

[Loren]

Check TSB 3/08 1359 Spacer Ring For Crankshaft Sealing Ring -- dated Feb 18, 2008.

Does your car have the correct spacer ring?

[dch475]

Check TSB 3/08 1359 Spacer Ring For Crankshaft Sealing Ring -- dated Feb 18, 2008.

Does your car have the correct spacer ring?

Thanks Loren, but I am aware of the spacer ring. We've been there and done that. I should get some feedback from Porsche this week. I'll post another note when I get the scoop from Porsche. I am trying to be optomistic. The dealership is on my side but we'll see what the 'head-honchos' say. Don

[lbp]

I have this RMS issue and have been told by dealer and non-dealer sources that this condition can result from the crankcase losing vacuum.

Apparently this RMS relies on crankcase vacuum to create its seal against the shaft?

Rather than tear the engine down to fix (and screw up 10 other things while the dealer experiments), I have opted to leave it alone and watch (for now).

I also now drive the car at least once during the week in an attempt to avoid vacuum dissipation.

Another condition was oil leakage along the crankcase halves. I again deferred tearing the entire thing down and opted for a treatment of sealant that was applied after cleaning with solvent (capillary action under heat to get the area cleansed and then again to get the sealant in).

The crankcase seam no longer leaks (so far) and I am happy that the engine was not torn apart for this.

You'd think after building these things for a while Porsche could get it right without hocus-pocus "consulting" back to the "factory engineers." - And I do not mean to blame the dealer here.

My engine also smokes like crazy on start up, but again, prevailing wisdom is that this is normal. At this time (6k mileage) the engine does not use any oil.

Also, the suspension/alignment settings were so bad when I picked up the car that it was dangerous to drive (no joke). - Some may argue that this is the dealer's responsibility, ...too many variables for the factory to know how we will drive these cars, shipping concerns, etc., etc. ...BS- it seems that Porsche is the only one who ***doesn't*** know how to set these cars up with a reasonable baseline alignment/bar. Oh, and the rear wing had 6 degrees of positive lift in it.

- Why can bankrupt GM build a bullet-proof Z06 at half the price, (and the very fine ZR1), while Porsche by comparison seems to survive (and profit handsomely) on folk-lore technology??

I don't buy the David & Goliath argument. - Not at the prices Porsche charges.

By the way, has anyone tried calling the customer service line at Porsche? They have a gushing 20-something girl answering the phone who is nice as pie when she wants to be, and absolutely in-effective in every way at resolving or delegating the simplest issue. Indeed, it was my experience that she enjoyed avoiding ownership for the most rudimentary.

I like the car, but Porsche as a company is full of s**t.

Edited April 13, 2009 by lbp

[lbp]

...there are literally dozens of RMS links on Google.

See one here: Rennteam

Edited April 13, 2009 by lbp

[lbp]

One "last" comment.

I am also an 03 Audi RS6 original owner.

As some may know, the RS6 RS6 Wiki has been plagued with problems associated with the DRC (Dynamic Ride Control) suspension. Without going into details, the DRC design as delivered is flawed and owners are not happy with the inevitable problems.

One RS6 owner who happens to be an attorney got politely pissed off enough (see here: Robert Iacovelli, Esq.) to develop support through audiworld.com for a potential class action suit against Audi.

This is the result: DRC Service Action

...It took Audi 5 years to respond to the issue, but only under threat of legal action.

Edited April 13, 2009 by lbp

[sws1]

I have heard that the new GT3 has a new RMS that Porsche is supposed to be offering to fix the current leak problem. Someone on Rennlist mentioned that a TSB was forthcoming from Porsche on this.

[jmla]

The dealer has installed two of the the "updated" 997 seals and both have leaked within 4-6 weeks of installation. I just re-opened my case today with Porsche, I have requested that they cover the labor to reinstall the original seal (996.102.264.92). I prefer the old version because although it showed signs of seepage at the seal, it never actually dripped oil on the ground. I have read that some have had success using the 996 TT seal (999.113.426 41). It appears that this issue has become commonplace with 7 GT3's, more so than with 6 GT3's. I believe this is mainly because the 6GT3 used a different seal. I understand how the seal relies on crankcase pressure or vacuum to function properly, however I don't understand how Porsche feels that it is acceptable for these vehicles to leak oil when not in use? I am concerned because I have noticed a light oil spray on the engine lid (my car is black) and I have figured out that it is the oil from underneath the car that is being circulated along with air and guess where it ends up?

[bobsprats]

The other week I was talking to a Porsche mechanic, who works for a UK Main dealer.

He said that he had seen a FEW leaky RMS on 997 GT3 / RS. He says that they either seem to leak from new, or not at all.

If its dry after a couple of thousand miles, thats the way they seem to stay.

I think many more stay dry than leak, but that never gets reported. So for the record, mine is bone dry. 2007, RS with 13k miles.

Bob.

[NoSubEDU]

Mine didn't start leaking until 12k miles.

[patrickb]

For a GT3 engine, a RMS leak is all but normal, although common.

What would it cost Porsche to admit it and re-design the seal to make lit leak-free ? Financially not much, only recalling 5000 cars, and change

seal including manpower wouldn't exceed 1000 USD per car. So 5 M$ operation is not much for the most profitable Car Company in the world, which made several B$ profit in 2008, on VW shares...!

So why ?

Likely, Porsche has built up its image and branding continuously on Performances & Solid Design & Reliability (unlike Ferrari), so admitting a design

error could have a far more disastrous effect.....pushing potential buyers to move to the less reliable Ferraris or Aston ....

How to quantity that, hard to say ? This is why, Porsche is not able to decide the best course of action between making happier the few thousands GT3 owners and keep their N.1 image on reliability. Future might tell...

Why the more powerful TT and GT2 don't have those troubles...

Patrick

[stuski65]

I would be interested to get some feed back on rear main seal leakage in GT3s. I have a 2007 that has had the RMS changed twice and it is sitting at the dealership now after again noticing a daily oil drip. Service technicians are apparently awaiting communication from Porsche in Germany as to what should be done. I have gotten a preliminary message that this may be "normal." I have a lot of trouble buying this. I have had five Porsche before this including an 86 930 and a 92 968 among others, and have never had a drop of oil on my garage floor. If I am told that I have to keep cleaning oil off my floor after buying a $120,000 car there are going to be some heated discussions and legal advice. How many of you GT3 owners out there are having RMS oil seepage or leakage?

Hello,

I have about 13,000 miles, original owner, 2007 GT3. My rear main

seal was just replaced, under warranty days before it expired before a drop of oil hit the floor. I think Porsche should

warranty this part to original owners for a decade as long as they experience

the problem.

I have taken superb care of my car, living with 911 oddities but you cannot

call seal problems of any kind normal, especially when a 911 is so supposed to be

the most refined car ever made. Refinement includes reliability.

The dealer service was excellent though.

[Dus10R]

Not endorsed by Porsche, but screw'em... Use 996TT seal... Same motor as 996TT without turbos...turbos don't have the RMS problem and most GT3 owners that switch to the 996TT seal don't either.

[BierGut]

Not endorsed by Porsche, but screw'em... Use 996TT seal... Same motor as 996TT without turbos...turbos don't have the RMS problem and most GT3 owners that switch to the 996TT seal don't either.

Any idea on why Porsche SA won't endorse the use of the 996TT RMS on our GT3s?

[harmonyjim]

Mine (an orange 2007 RS) was replaced three times under warranty, the latest one is perfect so far at 18K+ miles. As I understand it, they are designed to seal under vacuum, and "garage queens" leak due to loss of vacuum if not driven enough . I drive mine nearly every day, and it hasn't dripped one bit. I bought one of those inexpensive drip pans, and as always happens when you prepare for an eventuality - it never happens! In regards to the smoking upon start up; that is perfectly normal, mine is a regular mosquito fogger for a second or two upon starting, and then it is perfectly smoke-free. These cars are absolutely amazing, you have to expect and accept a few race-car like quirks. If you have ever seen an Indy car, or other race car up close - leaking is part of life with many of them.

[harmonyjim]

I recently had the trans out of my 2007 RS for 997.2 RS updating.  In the process, I had the RMS replaced with the turbo model RMS.  No more leaks for the first time in the 5 to 6 years I have owned the car.  Problem solved.