I want a 987, but do I need one...?

[Jay H]

Greetings to all. I currently have a 2002 base Boxster and have been looking at nearly new 987 non S cars (2007 & 2008's). My '02 runs well and drives great for an aging sports car. I use it for every day commuting all year round. I enjoy the looks of the newer generation and while I have yet to drive a 987, I'm wondering about some items on the newer car and if it's worth it to upgrade.

There are very few base 987's in my area to test drive other than one or two at the dealers and I'm avoiding the trip to the dealer at this point in order not to be pestered too much by sales staff (they all know me from PCA events)... I also hate wasting a private party's time on tire kicking test drives until I have my act together and know what I'm looking for.

1. Roads in my area are horrendous. Lots of broken concrete for pavement and frost heave cracked roads are the norm. Are the 987's any more complient or sophisticated in terms of ride quality than the older 986 cars? Or, is the 987 cars set up even more stiff? It feels like my poor '02 is going to shake itself to death at times. Everything seems to be within spec on my '02 as far as the suspension goes.

2. Will PASM help in the above situation for a more compliant ride? I do enjoy driving the car hard at times, but 98% of my driving consists of daily commuting in freeway and in town driving. The PASM system seems intriguing as a system that may allow for compliant ride quality during my normal commute, but provide some additional damping when I'm driving the car hard on the back roads. Any advice/comments on PASM would be appreciated.

3. Is there much tangible difference in the greater power output of the 987's as compared to the 217 hp in my '02?

4. I enjoy audio, but switch cars too often to spend several thousand on decent aftermarket systems. Did Porsche improve the basic audio systems in the 987? I have the slightly upgraded factory sound system in my '02 with the CDR220 head unit, 4 channel power amp, 130mm door speakers and of course the dash top speakers. Do the newer systems have more fidelity than what was used in the 986's? This point is really a non issue, but I'm just curious...

Any comments and thoughts between the 986 and 987 would be appreciated. Flames, jabs and "do a search you idiot" will be welcomed too...

Thanks!

Jay

02 986

90 964

84 911

[wvicary]

It's really best to drive as many examples of the 987 as you can to get the measure of the vehicle. Opinions on the internet vary so much and what I consider a harsh/rough ride might be just right for yourself. Best of luck in your search.

[theOne]

It's really best to drive as many examples of the 987 as you can to get the measure of the vehicle. Opinions on the internet vary so much and what I consider a harsh/rough ride might be just right for yourself. Best of luck in your search.

Hi,

I did the same two years ago. The 987 is a much better car all round. If the roads are that bad stick with 17" wheels as I have because sum of the roads in Poland are crap. PASM makes a big change to how hard the ride is. There is not much difference in the power from 220 to 245 because it weighs more.

I have all the upgraded audio, but I mostly drive with it off as the sound of the 987 is so much louder and nicer than a 986.

Good luck.

[Richard Hamilton]

I've ridden in a couple of 987s and 997s recently, and was mightily impressed with the improvement in ride quality over the 986/996. A 997 C2S on 19" wheels soaked up the bumps much better than any 996 I've been in. Until you switch it to Sport - that's a different story.

[White987S]

Jay H, if I were you, I'd buy a 2006 Boxster S over an 07 or 08 base.

[Jay H]

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I appreciate the feedback.

Jay H, if I were you, I'd buy a 2006 Boxster S over an 07 or 08 base.

White, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning behind your statement.

[White987S]

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I appreciate the feedback.

Jay H, if I were you, I'd buy a 2006 Boxster S over an 07 or 08 base.

White, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning behind your statement.

Here are my thoughts:

1) Skip the 2005 MY- first year of the re-design. Just my opinion. I always wait an extra year

2) The "S" has more HP and a ton more than your current car. You will see a HUGE difference.

3) You can probably buy an 06 S for the same money (or less) over a newer base Boxster.

Great time to buy! There are a ton of cars for sale. Have cash-in-hand and you will get a great deal. Be patient.

[renzop]

I have an '08 base with PASM and 18" wheels. Everyone who rides in the car feels that the ride is impressively smooth. Were I you, I would get PASM because of your rough roads. However a base Boxster with PASM is a rare beast indeed. Even finding a used S with PASM may be difficult.

Probably an '07-08 S with PASM is more findable. The extra power and torque in the S is nice but really I find myself not using the full potential power of my base Box on the street. For street only the extra power of the S would be wasted on me. If you are a track junkie then an S may be worthwhile not only for the extra power but for the bigger brakes and closer ratios of the 6 speed in 2nd, 3rd and 4th.

[Jay H]

White987S, thanks for your explanation of why an "S" might be warranted.

Renzop: I also appreciate your feedback and first hand experience on PASM.

Even my relatively "weak" 217 hp '02 seems to be plenty for the street, so an "S" might not be worth the slight premium, though there doesn't seem to be huge pricing gaps between a base car and an S if you compare the same year and same mileage.

However, there sure seems to be pricing difference between the sub 10,000 mile cars and stuff with 20-25k miles on them. They tank quite a bit once they hit 20,000 miles...$5,000 or so is what I'm seeing as far as asking price differences.

Great time to buy! There are a ton of cars for sale. Have cash-in-hand and you will get a great deal. Be patient.

I agree, I'm taking my time and doing my homework!

[renzop]

Quite frankly, I would steer clear of low mileage Boxsters. I understand that unless you run the car relatively frequently some seals tend to dry up. To me, the ideal used Boxster would have between 5 and 10K miles per year every year, full maintenance records with one service per year regrdless of mileage, was garaged and had just one previous owner.

[Bob Z.]

My '08 Boxster S has 18"s and the ride is great - I've driven one with 17"s and did not notice any difference...depends on the roads I guess.

Lots of used ones on the market and a low mileage/newer one is a better buy than a new one - take my 2008 for example, which is in the classifieds here. And I just put it on Autotrader - hoping to sell soon.

[geoff]

I have an '01 base Boxster 5 speed, and have driven a few 987s with tip as dealer loaners. Better quality interior, louder exhaust noise, but not noticeably better handling (ROW M030 on mine) and the tip cancels any performance gain from the newer engine. I hadn't driven a stock 987S until yesterday

Yesterday, Porsche did the 2009 Boxster and Cayman launch event in LA by setting up an autocross layout in the parking lot at Hollywood Park. Only cars were 'S' models with new PDK transmission. No comparison between the old Tiptronic and newer PDK transmission, and if you're looking at an automatic, don't bother with an older tip model - wait until you can afford a newer PDK model. New engines with no IMS and direct injection feel like they have more power than our '05 Carrera with tip. Drivers said they got just over 30 MPG driving from Ontario to the event on the freeway. Up until yesterday, the only Boxster upgrade that was interesting to me was when I drove a friend's RUF-ized 987S with Carrera S engine. If you're considering a newer 987S, wait until you can afford a 2009 or newer S with the new engine and DFI, or you will be lusting after one in no time. The PDK definitely removes some of the driving experience, but for essentially an automatic transmission, it's a huge advance.

The newer cars are stiffer, or maybe my car is looser with age. Crappy surface in the parking lot for an autocross setup, and it wasn't clean. Ride quality wasn't noticeably better than my car (my car and yesterday's demos all have 18" wheels). No PASM, but the stability control kicked in a few times. Our '08 Cayenne S has PASM, and we can't really tell much difference driving around between normal, sport and comfort modes. We always leave it in sport mode at the lower suspension height setting. Not sure how this compares to the Boxster PASM

At the end, we got to do a ride-along with the Porsche Driving Experience guys supporting the event. One of the local PCA guys who runs the autocross events said he would have been at least 30 seconds slower around the course, and I realized I can't drive these cars anywhere near their potential. I haven't autocrossed my Boxster, but the new ones are definitely fast. There's a lot more potential to get tickets and lose your license faster with a newer 987S than a base 986.

[Jay H]

Thanks to everyone that has offered their opinion and experience. I appreciate all the input and have listened to your advice.

I looked at a 2005 "S" today with 8500 miles. 2 months of factory warranty left, needs rear tires, seems to be washed with sandpaper, some decent scratches in the driver's door, no records, but interior is like new. I do agree with renzop that it's not good to let these cars sit...and this car may be too low of mileage for it's age. Local used car dealer has this one and he's not moving much from ~$33k on the price. I'll try to drive on Friday to see what I think as compared to my '02.

There are 2008 new base Boxsters around for $39,900... Not sure my budget can stretch to $40k, but it's tempting to own a new one for $10 to $12k off sticker.

If you're considering a newer 987S, wait until you can afford a 2009 or newer S with the new engine and DFI, or you will be lusting after one in no time.

I'm hearing this advice loud and clear too...

Best to all,

Jay

Edited April 2, 2009 by Jay H

[Bob Z.]

Thanks to everyone that has offered their opinion and experience. I appreciate all the input and have listened to your advice.

I looked at a 2005 "S" today with 8500 miles. 2 months of factory warranty left, needs rear tires, seems to be washed with sandpaper, some decent scratches in the driver's door, no records, but interior is like new. I do agree with renzop that it's not good to let these cars sit...and this car may be too low of mileage for it's age. Local used car dealer has this one and he's not moving much from ~$33k on the price. I'll try to drive on Friday to see what I think as compared to my '02.

There are 2008 new base Boxsters around for $39,900... Not sure my budget can stretch to $40k, but it's tempting to own a new one for $10 to $12k off sticker.

If you're considering a newer 987S, wait until you can afford a 2009 or newer S with the new engine and DFI, or you will be lusting after one in no time.

I'm hearing this advice loud and clear too...

Best to all,

Jay

That does not seem like that good of a deal compared to what I have seen. And for $33k with very little warranty and what appears to be neglect. I am selling my '08 S (see classifieds) and looked all over for pricing information - mine is priced to sell compared to what I see on the market now, which is a better deal than a new one, even more warranty than a new one.

[gandrade1]

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I appreciate the feedback.

Jay H, if I were you, I'd buy a 2006 Boxster S over an 07 or 08 base.

White, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning behind your statement.

Agreed!!!

S have better brakes, more HP, different gear ratios, etc...For me the brakes alone would justify the choice. Would stay away from MY05s just because they were the first year model.

In 07 there was a small increase in HP in both models (if I am not mistaking), but apart from that nothing really changed that would make a 07 or 08 base more attractive than a 06S..

I own a 01 986 and drove a 987 (base MY08) two weekends ago...Man :-) the 987 is a much improved car. I nearly traded my in, if only the sales man had not offered USD 10,000 for my MY01 with 47k miles!!!

Best of luck,

Gus

[Bob Z.]

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I appreciate the feedback.

Jay H, if I were you, I'd buy a 2006 Boxster S over an 07 or 08 base.

White, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning behind your statement.

Agreed!!!

S have better brakes, more HP, different gear ratios, etc...For me the brakes alone would justify the choice. Would stay away from MY05s just because they were the first year model.

In 07 there was a small increase in HP in both models (if I am not mistaking), but apart from that nothing really changed that would make a 07 or 08 base more attractive than a 06S..

I own a 01 986 and drove a 987 (base MY08) two weekends ago...Man :-) the 987 is a much improved car. I nearly traded my in, if only the sales man had not offered USD 10,000 for my MY01 with 47k miles!!!

Best of luck,

Gus

Keep in mind that the newer the car the more likely it is to have more warranty. And in 2007 they upgraded the parts associated with the IMS.

[gandrade1]

Keep in mind that the newer the car the more likely it is to have more warranty.

Point taken...Its all about how much you are willing to give up to get that one extra year of warranty. Priorities, priorities...

And in 2007 they upgraded the parts associated with the IMS.

Only worthwhile upgrade seems to be the removal of that thing!

Nothing I have read substantiates that the post 07 are any more reliable than the 06 and so forth!

[Jay H]

That does not seem like that good of a deal compared to what I have seen. And for $33k with very little warranty and what appears to be neglect. I am selling my '08 S (see classifieds) and looked all over for pricing information - mine is priced to sell compared to what I see on the market now, which is a better deal than a new one, even more warranty than a new one.

Bob, I agree that the pricing seems a tad high and at 8500 miles, I would expect this car to have a few less flaws. However, there are so few 987s around in my area that I think the lack of competition drives prices higher than what is probably the norms in CA, FL or the east coast. I'm still going to take a spin in it tomorrow. I'm in no rush, so time is on my side...

[White987S]

However, there are so few 987s around in my area that I think the lack of competition drives prices higher than what is probably the norms in CA, FL or the east coast. I'm still going to take a spin in it tomorrow. I'm in no rush, so time is on my side...

Jay, then be willing to expand the search area for your Boxster (200, 300, 500 miles away). And, during the drive home with your new baby, the two of you can bond. :)

[Bob Z.]

That does not seem like that good of a deal compared to what I have seen. And for $33k with very little warranty and what appears to be neglect. I am selling my '08 S (see classifieds) and looked all over for pricing information - mine is priced to sell compared to what I see on the market now, which is a better deal than a new one, even more warranty than a new one.

Bob, I agree that the pricing seems a tad high and at 8500 miles, I would expect this car to have a few less flaws. However, there are so few 987s around in my area that I think the lack of competition drives prices higher than what is probably the norms in CA, FL or the east coast. I'm still going to take a spin in it tomorrow. I'm in no rush, so time is on my side...

Best of luck and take your time looking around. Also remember that shipping costs are way down since fuel costs are low (relatively speaking) so you could buy one out of state and have it shipped to you. Take a look at Autotrader to get an idea of what people are asking - I priced mine lower than most and it appears to be the best deal out there.

[Jay H]

Jay, then be willing to expand the search area for your Boxster (200, 300, 500 miles away). And, during the drive home with your new baby, the two of you can bond. :)

Agreed. I bought a 1984 Carrera 3 years ago sight unseen from the Philly area (800 miles away) and had it shipped home. My 964 comes from North Carolina.

My only issue is that I wish to trade the '02 Boxster, so private party sales are a bit more difficult unless I want to finance the new car until the old car is sold. Then there is the time it takes to sell a car privately (which I don't really wish to deal with), sales tax implications, etc.

And in 2007 they upgraded the parts associated with the IMS.

It was my understanding that Porsche did another upgrade in 2006 to the IMS...?

[Jay H]

A quick update...

I drove the 2005 S on Friday. It was a cold day, about 38 degrees F, so I didn't want to push too hard in the corners with the summer only tires on this car. Other than the cosmetic issues and the rear tire wear that I noted in previous posts, this car seemed to be in pretty good working order.

As all of you have said, the increase in the audible portion of the engine is fantastic. Of course the S is faster than my aging '02, but for everyday driving as a commuter car, it probably wouldn't do much to improve my drive. With the 18's, the car road very similar to my car with 17" tires, though I can easily tell what a 8500 mile suspension feels like verses a 37,000 mile suspension on my car. Stuff wears out/wears in and the '05 I drove was just slightly tighter in it's feel. Ride quality was virtually the same as my car. Rattles were the same as my car. The wider tires seems to wander just a bit more than mine does. In typical Porsche fashion, the improvements are slight and not massive. For me and how I use a Boxster, it's not a huge change from what I already have.

All in all, I don't think it would be worth it for me to move up to an S if the pricing is significantly more than a comparable base car. It'll be interesting to find a base car with 17" tires to see how that setup handles and rides.

Again, I appreciate everyone's time that was taken to clue me in on the 987s.

Edited April 5, 2009 by Jay H

[White987S]

Jay H, just one other thing to consider. Do you have young/small children? The reason I ask is because the 2005 987 did NOT have smart air bags. The 2006 and newer does.

So, with my young children, I safely used a booster seat and the current seat belts in my 2006 S. The airbag automatically turns off, based on the weight of the occupant (about 90-100 pounds is the cut-off). This is also in accordance to my State laws.

Just a thought.

[Jay H]

Do you have young/small children? The reason I ask is because the 2005 987 did NOT have smart air bags. The 2006 and newer does.

So, with my young children, I safely used a booster seat and the current seat belts in my 2006 S. The airbag automatically turns off, based on the weight of the occupant (about 90-100 pounds is the cut-off). This is also in accordance to my State laws.

Just a thought.

Very good point. I do have small kids yet, so I agree that the 2006 or newer is pretty much mandatory for me. I test drove the 2005 S I mentioned above just because it was 5 miles from my house and at a used car lot.

[BoxstaNZ]

Do you have young/small children? The reason I ask is because the 2005 987 did NOT have smart air bags. The 2006 and newer does.

So, with my young children, I safely used a booster seat and the current seat belts in my 2006 S. The airbag automatically turns off, based on the weight of the occupant (about 90-100 pounds is the cut-off). This is also in accordance to my State laws.

Just a thought.

Very good point. I do have small kids yet, so I agree that the 2006 or newer is pretty much mandatory for me. I test drove the 2005 S I mentioned above just because it was 5 miles from my house and at a used car lot.

Hi Jay

I live in NZ and i had an 03 2.7 986 which i loved which was on 17 s and a tiptronic, sadly it was written off in an accident.

I have replaced it wit an 07 987 2.7 tip done only 6000 miles

In Arctic Siver with Black full leather, 18" Cayman S wheels

I have found it is a better car all round being bigger in the cabin having a far better interior, the tip was upgraded too and with the sport button has become quite a nice and responsive gearbox, it has a more involving exhaust note that is deeper but not droning, i have the sports chrono option which when you select sport mode it sharpens the throttle response as well as the tips programming is more aggressive holding gears longer and changin down more responsively.

The ride on the 18" Cayman S wheels is just as smooth as the old car, the steering is seems better too.

Good luck with your search

Cheers Nev