Control arm noise

[Benjamin Choi]

When I maneuver at slow speeds (e.g. parking lot) and when the car has been driven around for a bit (warmed up), my car makes a creaking noise like a rubber on rubber type.

I had the shop check it out and they tell me there's just not enough room down there so my control arm is rubbing against something like a sway bar (I forget exactly what he said to me). He told me the only way to really begin to make the noise go away is to raise the car to give things more room to move below. I actually have aftermarket drop links so there's clearance there.

Any of you guys on PSS9s *lowered like mine* dealing with the same noise issue? My indy said it's OK to drive it the way it is, but next time around, consider raising the car and to start fresh, get new control arms in there.

Thanks for your time and attn.

[perryinva]

I'd it probably doesn't have anything to do with the lowering. Mine does the exact same thing and is still full stock suspension. May be control arm bushings (tho they tend to do it regardless of temperature), or the front strut bearings are worn, if installed. Many shops install the PSS9s without the stock strut bearing, and use the rubber spacer as the "bearing". That works for a while until the rubber wears. It does it more when the rubber is softer as it warms up. Didn't you read about this on any of the other boards? It's pretty common, lowered or not.

[Benjamin Choi]

I'd it probably doesn't have anything to do with the lowering. Mine does the exact same thing and is still full stock suspension. May be control arm bushings (tho they tend to do it regardless of temperature), or the front strut bearings are worn, if installed. Many shops install the PSS9s without the stock strut bearing, and use the rubber spacer as the "bearing". That works for a while until the rubber wears. It does it more when the rubber is softer as it warms up. Didn't you read about this on any of the other boards? It's pretty common, lowered or not.

interesting. i'm thinking about swapping out the c4s stock control arms as they are now with the gt3 control arms which are adjustable just to get new components in there and less so for the adjustability since i don't really need it.

no, i didn't read on the other boards. had I, then i wouldn't be posting, right? thx for your response.

p.s. do you have a part number or description for the stock strut bearing that i would want to use in case mine just uses the rubber spacer?

Edited March 18, 2009 by Benjamin Choi

[perryinva]

The bearing part number is 996 343 515 05. Sunset has them for $21.25 and Suncoast for $23.10, ea. It goes above the metal support ring that backs the rubber and below the concave washer (stop plate) under the upper strut mount. Even if you had it installed, it/they could still be bad. They get noisey pretty easily. You can verify if it's the part by removing the drivers front wheel (after it's warmed up) and have someone turn the steering wheel while you hold/feel in the wheelwell where the top of the spring meets the strut mount. You can feel the creaking vibration as the wheel is turned. I'd only asked if you'd read about it before in case you'd already determined that it wasn't the bearing or control arm bushings and were just looking for another possibility. I should have typed "Had" not "Didn't", thinking one thing, typing another. I should point out that the PSS9 instructions just show a block the says "original mount parts" above the cone washer, part number 996 343 513 00, which, according to Kieth Robertson at Bilstein in North Carolina, meant to reuse all the original mounting parts from the OE struts, which includes the bearing. To make matters more confusing, on the instructions for the PSS10s, they show the breakdown of the OE parts to reuse, "to clarify the actual parts to be reused, which appeared to be an omission in the instructions for the PSS9 kit". Well, on the rears, the diagonal spacers and bottom washer are not reused. But on the diagram for the front PSS10, that same breakdown doesn't specifically show the bearing or the rubber compensating plate, or the diagram could be construed to be the bearing, the support plate and compensating plate all rolled into one.

Edited March 18, 2009 by perryinva

[SH-GT3]

Link with others with similar noises, including Ben it looks like.

[perryinva]

Yeah, that's the post where I got most of my "pre-install" information, to gather new parts to correctly pre-assemble the PSS9's. Since I paid so little for the PSS9s, I figured I splurge and buy new parts and leave the OE struts fully assemled to reinstall if I sold the car or whatever. I thought I recalled Ben was in that post, and he already did have the bearings and rubber plates installed 2 years ago, and it did cure the noise he had at the time. I'm guessing he has a different noise now & it is probably his control arm bushings, not the struts making the creaking noise, or the mechanic is right and he has rubbing interference.

[Benjamin Choi]

Yes, that was a while ago and the noise has come back, but slightly different, but still very similar.

Perry, your efforts and knowledge are invaluable here so thx, again. Anderson, thx for the link as well.

I'm just tired of the noise and just want it silent. I'm dropping off my car at the indy for inspection early next week. I'll be sure to post what I discover and leverage the info here to ameliorate or get rid of the noise all together.

[perryinva]

Ben,

Please do keep us informed as to what is found, if it turns out that I need to watch out for something else, it'd be great to have a heads up!

[Benjamin Choi]

The bearing part number is 996 343 515 05. Sunset has them for $21.25 and Suncoast for $23.10, ea. It goes above the metal support ring that backs the rubber and below the concave washer (stop plate) under the upper strut mount. Even if you had it installed, it/they could still be bad. They get noisey pretty easily. You can verify if it's the part by removing the drivers front wheel (after it's warmed up) and have someone turn the steering wheel while you hold/feel in the wheelwell where the top of the spring meets the strut mount. You can feel the creaking vibration as the wheel is turned. I'd only asked if you'd read about it before in case you'd already determined that it wasn't the bearing or control arm bushings and were just looking for another possibility. I should have typed "Had" not "Didn't", thinking one thing, typing another. I should point out that the PSS9 instructions just show a block the says "original mount parts" above the cone washer, part number 996 343 513 00, which, according to Kieth Robertson at Bilstein in North Carolina, meant to reuse all the original mounting parts from the OE struts, which includes the bearing. To make matters more confusing, on the instructions for the PSS10s, they show the breakdown of the OE parts to reuse, "to clarify the actual parts to be reused, which appeared to be an omission in the instructions for the PSS9 kit". Well, on the rears, the diagonal spacers and bottom washer are not reused. But on the diagram for the front PSS10, that same breakdown doesn't specifically show the bearing or the rubber compensating plate, or the diagram could be construed to be the bearing, the support plate and compensating plate all rolled into one.

Perry,

not to question the wizard, but Are your part numbers correct?

https://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopca..._SUSshk_pg1.htm

996 343 515 05 doesn't look like a bearing, but a rubber mount piece.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Benjamin Choi

[perryinva]

Ben,

I'm no wizard. I get the same info that is available to everyone online! I've not yet held that part in my hand. Download the PET (Porsche Parts Catalog, in pdf format). Even tho you have a C4s, (right??) for the C2 front strut 996 343 515 05 is part #11, labeled "bearing with housing" and it supercedes 996-343-515-04, which was labeled "deep groove ball bearing with housing". Like I said, $21 from Sunset, its $36 at Pelican. If you look farther down on the same section of the Pelican page you reference, you'll see part number for your car, 996-343-501-00 labeled Shock Bearing Plate for Front Shock Absorber (Upper Plastic Ring with Ball Bearings), Carrera 4. $41.50 at Pelican. It is also #11 in the PET for the C4 front strut, in the same placement and performs the same function. It's what the suspension turns on when it rotates. Similar price, same function, but who knows what's it's made of? If you click the small pic, it blows up and it sure looks like a bearing to me, but is it metal or rubber? It certainly isn't the lower rubber bushing, that is what Porsche calls the compensating plate. Maybe the guy that wrote the description at Pelican got them mixed up. It would be easy, as they look similar.

Like I mentioned, I ordered all new rubber parts, as my used ones would be 7 years old and by now would have definietly taken a set to whatever they are up against. I ordered new bearings, as mine creak like a wooden ship, once warmed up. I had ordered new stop plates which are nothing more than concave washers, and 6 months ago were roughly a ridiculous $9 each. They've since doubled in price to $18 F & $16 R. That's $140 for 8 friggin washers. If anyone out there has any concave washers and wants to sell them for $50 the set, I'm buying!!! Why would Porsche get $21 for a bearing and $18 for a washer? Makes no sense. I'll re-use my old washers or find someone that has them cheaper.

Edited March 20, 2009 by perryinva

[Benjamin Choi]

Sorry to report, but no revelations here.

Just got the car back this morning. The groaning noises are gone. My indy (www.cantrellmotorsport.com) simply greased up parts here and there. He tells me everything looks healthy.

While there, I had the engine mounts replaced. The original ones were fine (i.e. no leaks), but figured I'd just do it before they pop since I have about 57K miles on my 2002 now.

This car gets better and better, though sometimes I do wish for that V8 mid-engine F-car. :)

[catmanluge]

Sorry to report, but no revelations here.

Just got the car back this morning. The groaning noises are gone. My indy (www.cantrellmotorsport.com) simply greased up parts here and there. He tells me everything looks healthy.

While there, I had the engine mounts replaced. The original ones were fine (i.e. no leaks), but figured I'd just do it before they pop since I have about 57K miles on my 2002 now.

This car gets better and better, though sometimes I do wish for that V8 mid-engine F-car. :)

I you have the suspension weighted loosen the control arm bolt then retighten. They are not susposed to be tighten wile unweighted...

[Connor]

When I maneuver at slow speeds (e.g. parking lot) and when the car has been driven around for a bit (warmed up), my car makes a creaking noise like a rubber on rubber type.

I had the shop check it out and they tell me there's just not enough room down there so my control arm is rubbing against something like a sway bar (I forget exactly what he said to me). He told me the only way to really begin to make the noise go away is to raise the car to give things more room to move below. I actually have aftermarket drop links so there's clearance there.

Any of you guys on PSS9s *lowered like mine* dealing with the same noise issue? My indy said it's OK to drive it the way it is, but next time around, consider raising the car and to start fresh, get new control arms in there.

Thanks for your time and attn.

I had that problem. Then my wheel fell off.

[996noob]

Yes, that was a while ago and the noise has come back, but slightly different, but still very similar.

Perry, your efforts and knowledge are invaluable here so thx, again. Anderson, thx for the link as well.

I'm just tired of the noise and just want it silent. I'm dropping off my car at the indy for inspection early next week. I'll be sure to post what I discover and leverage the info here to ameliorate or get rid of the noise all together.

Is it a creaking sound when there is suspension deflection at slow speeds? Well, I think it may be the rack end ball joint or the tie rod end ball joint, creaking. The grease gets dry, and even though there is no play, it creaks. I got this countless times on my BMW's and also my 996. For the tie rod end, I managed to use a screwdriver to pull the balljoint rubber boot slightly to put the straw of a can of Fluid Film in there. A quick squirt and some manipulation solved the sound. As for the rack end, you will have to turn the steering all the way to one side and then remove the rubber gaitors to get at the joint. Anyway, that's what has happened for me a couple of times. The only way to tell is to separate the ball joint of the tie rod to the hub carriers, then you will be able to tell if there is creaking when you move the joints by hand. Mine creaked and you could feel the "vibration" of the creaking. Alot of the time, this "vibration" comes through to the steering wheel when you have large, slow suspension travel. Do you get this sensation?

[996noob]

Sorry to report, but no revelations here.

Just got the car back this morning. The groaning noises are gone. My indy (www.cantrellmotorsport.com) simply greased up parts here and there. He tells me everything looks healthy.

While there, I had the engine mounts replaced. The original ones were fine (i.e. no leaks), but figured I'd just do it before they pop since I have about 57K miles on my 2002 now.

This car gets better and better, though sometimes I do wish for that V8 mid-engine F-car. :)

Hey Ben, didn't see that you solved your problem before I posted my solution. I think I was close. Haha. Anyway, I wanted to ask you what wheels you are on, and where I could something like that.

Thanks!