B&M VS 997 short shifter

[roxfatal]

Anyone know the differences between the two as far as specs? Do they have the same throw? Same install? Reliability? The 997 shifter is about twice as much money. I am just trying to justify the cost.

[Loren]

This has been posted several times before... the 997 shifter throw will not be as short as the B&M shifter.

[jpflip]

The 997 shifter assy #99742401000 is only $169.95 ($195.42 include shipping to Canada)... And the B&M shifter assy is $270.09 + shipping. Many people are replacing the B&M shifter assy to install the 997 and other prefer the B&M. I am waiting for spring to install mine....

[Brad Roberts]

I'm up to 12 (B+M) removed :lol: I highly suggest you find a friend with one installed and drive it for a day. Many of us believe the B+M is causing premature wear in the tranny :(

B

[wross996TT]

Many of us believe the B+M is causing premature wear in the tranny.

Really...who are "many of us"? The B&M is the manufacturer of the oem shifter. I understand that PNA may use the SSK as an excuse for loosing second gear (for example), but I hardly thin there are many that believe this (you are drinking too much Porsche factory juice....LOL). I for one do not an am very happy with the B&M SSK. Unless you have data to support this claim, I suggest refraining from spreading internet rumors....JMHO!

[roxfatal]

Sorry I am not trying to bring up the same old post. I am actually trying to find out about the new??? 997 short shifter not the stock 997 shifter. It is about $400 from Sunset Porsche. They claimed to have two different types for the 997 that will fit into the 996. One is about $200 the other is $400. Anyone know the difference? How does the "997 Short Shifter" compare to the B&M?

Thanks

[geoff]

See my writeup on the 997 short shifter in my '01 Boxster. You should have similar results in a 996. The 997 short shifter is not the same as the B&M, or the 996 short shifter, which was a rebranded B&M pre-mounted in a shifter housing

[Brad Roberts]

Really...who are "many of us"?

Those of us rebuilding your tranny. Right now in the USA, you have about 15 or so shops (not dealers) actually cracking into these boxes and fixing them. Maybe 15 :) and not just replacing them with an OEM replacement box.

None of this is news. Call your favorite shop. Ask them who their favorite wholesale sales person is and give them a call. Ask them who they are selling tranny parts to and get their contact info and call them. You will find the list VERY short.

My internet rumors start with real world experience (personal hands on) then before I say anything in public, I talk to other shop owners all around the USA to see what they are finding :) If more than 5 shops find EXACTLY the same things I'm seeing.... and a pattern starts to emerge... public I go.

It starts with knowing who works on what :)

Want tranny info from PRO's? I start here:

Brian Copans

Gordon Leadbetter

Bobby Hart

Gary Fairbanks

Tom Conway

B

[wross996TT]

Hey "B"....exactly how many trannies have you and the others cracked open (we are talking 996TTs)? How large is your sample size and how does it compare with the number out there with no issues? Is your data correlation or causation? I suppose I know the answer....

[roxfatal]

I am going with the 996 short shifter accessory kit from Porsche. It advertises a 37% reduction from stock in the 996. It is not cheap $400+ but neither is a new tranny. Besides I bought the Porsche because of the intense perverted German engineering....why change!

[roxfatal]

Really...who are "many of us"?

Those of us rebuilding your tranny. Right now in the USA, you have about 15 or so shops (not dealers) actually cracking into these boxes and fixing them. Maybe 15 :) and not just replacing them with an OEM replacement box.

None of this is news. Call your favorite shop. Ask them who their favorite wholesale sales person is and give them a call. Ask them who they are selling tranny parts to and get their contact info and call them. You will find the list VERY short.

My internet rumors start with real world experience (personal hands on) then before I say anything in public, I talk to other shop owners all around the USA to see what they are finding :) If more than 5 shops find EXACTLY the same things I'm seeing.... and a pattern starts to emerge... public I go.

It starts with knowing who works on what :)

Want tranny info from PRO's? I start here:

Brian Copans

Gordon Leadbetter

Bobby Hart

Gary Fairbanks

Tom Conway

B

What are the pro's putting in there car? Are they racing them or daily drivers?

[Brad Roberts]

Hey "B"....exactly how many trannies have you and the others cracked open (we are talking 996TTs)?

100's and 100's

We have seen your TT transmission since 1987. The differences between your TT box and the first G50 in the 911 are VERY minimal. Go to PET and pull up both trannies and count up ALL the parts they currently share or that have been superceded on the G50 to 996 parts number. Take note of ALL the 950 part numbers and 928 part numbers.

If you don't recognize that list of names and what they have done tranny wise, you are not qualified to hold this argument.

Brian is the Porsche Motorsports tranny builder for the USA (all IMSA Challenge tranny's)

The others.. well.. you'll figure it out :)

B

[wross996TT]

Hey "B"....exactly how many trannies have you and the others cracked open (we are talking 996TTs)?

100's and 100's

We have seen your TT transmission since 1987. The differences between your TT box and the first G50 in the 911 are VERY minimal. Go to PET and pull up both trannies and count up ALL the parts they currently share or that have been superceded on the G50 to 996 parts number. Take note of ALL the 950 part numbers and 928 part numbers.

If you don't recognize that list of names and what they have done tranny wise, you are not qualified to hold this argument.

Brian is the Porsche Motorsports tranny builder for the USA (all IMSA Challenge tranny's)

The others.. well.. you'll figure it out :)

B

I am definately not qualified....I can't name drop near as well as you. I just think it is strange that you claim all of these tranny issues (due specifically to the B&M SSK) and I have not seen this as a widespread problem...on the "6" or on the "list". The only data I have seen is an unscientific poll on the 6 regarding second gear pop-out...where there is NO correlation with SSK installs.

There is even a thread by tool pants & Loren that clearly states the B&M is identical to the Porsche SSK except for color. Would you please enlighten all of us ignorant folk what the difference is between the Porsche 996 TT SSK and the B&M SSK...TIA.

Edited March 1, 2009 by wross996TT

[Brad Roberts]

on the "6" or on the "list"

I can add up on one hand how people on the "6" build tranny's (advertisers with shops, not users) I do not frequently visit Rennlist. I left the "list" a couple of years after it changed from the Porschefiles era 2001 or so when "Dunk" still owned it.

I just think it is strange that you claim all of these tranny issues

All these tranny issues? I'm claiming the short shift causes premature wear inside the tranny.

There is even a thread by tool pants & Loren that clearly states the B&M is identical to the Porsche SSK except for color. Would you please enlighten all of us ignorant folk what the difference is between the Porsche 996 TT SSK and the B&M SSK

With your stats in place, can you tell us when Porsche released the SSK? How many years AFTER B&M did they release it?

Please understand Porsche is in the business to make money. If you recognize (what? 6-7 years later?) that another company is making a simple part that is selling well, wouldn't you as a business want to jump in on that market and offer a "factory piece" ? A factory piece that is identical in every way? I never debated it was the same piece in different wrapping, but that does not mean it does not contribute to premature wear in the gearbox.

You accused me of drinking the "Porsche juice", do you honestly believe that "everything" they create (or duplicate in this case) is GOLD? Have you seen the M96/M97 failures?? :lol:

Name dropping occurs after building that contact list for 20+ years in the Porsche industry and knowing who kicks buttocks and who doesn't.

I will admit to not cracking into my first G96 until early 2000 when working for the Porsche Junior team that year. (Ready for another name?) I worked side by side with Bob Skeen. Bob was the tranny builder for McClaren for years and years until he moved to the states. We re-geared 2 tranny's before EVERY ALMS race (and 3 later on when we added yet another car to the team).. you quickly become intimate with the tranny's in less than a year. All this before you even saw the first 996TT on the road. In 1999 I had GT3Cup tranny's out.. same tranny as the early GT3R, and before that 993 RSR tranny's.. ALL of them the same exact tranny, but shifted with cables in your car and the later GT3R.

Someone above asked "what do the pro's use"? None of the pro's before the Sequential box (which is nothing more than your G96 box with a Hollinger straight cut gear conversion) use a short shifter. The tranny will not last 24hrs with a short shifter in place with pro drivers (based on my experience)

B

Edited March 1, 2009 by Brad Roberts

[Brad Roberts]

More names.. :lol: (sorry cant help myself)

Hung out BS'ing with Roger Graco yesterday over coffee for several hours :)

Roger is a parts manager for Porsche Motorsports North America and has been for years.

Who did you have coffee with yesterday morning?

I eat/sleep/breathe this stuff 24/7 365. This is what I do for a living, and it is what all my friends do for a living.

I'm more than certain you are a professional at your job (you wouldn't own a TT if you were not) Understand there are other professionals out there and we do communicate (without web forums)

B

[wross996TT]

More names.. :lol: (sorry cant help myself)

Hung out BS'ing with Roger Graco yesterday over coffee for several hours :)

Roger is a parts manager for Porsche Motorsports North America and has been for years.

Who did you have coffee with yesterday morning?

I eat/sleep/breathe this stuff 24/7 365. This is what I do for a living, and it is what all my friends do for a living.

I'm more than certain you are a professional at your job (you wouldn't own a TT if you were not) Understand there are other professionals out there and we do communicate (without web forums)

B

Your attitude is so very cordial...NOT. It is pleasant for you to come on here as apparently you are a gift from heaven. I have tried to helpful to others without denigrating them. It certainly sounds as though you have a good deal of experience and could be quite helpful on the site. I thank you for putting in my place. What does it matter whom I had breakfast with? You seriously should consider your attitude, I personally would not seek you for the service of my car regardless of your knowledge.

Good day.

[Brad Roberts]

I personally would not seek you for the service of my car regardless of your knowledge.

No loss :)

My point with breakfast: You cant learn everything from forums. You have to "touch" things to gain knowledge, not just read about it. Unfortunately not all shop guy's/owners can type and most of them do not have time to visit the forums and I have yet to meet or speak with ANY Porsche owner who has cracked into his G96 box at home. It won't happen. Large presses and large long gear pullers are needed, so the trickle down information from the pro's will be slow.

Relax. I'm sure you have a GREAT shop owner who takes care of your car. Ask him if has has rebuilt a G96.

B

[jpflip]

I don't like to see an argument of this kind between two persons that I can learn from... As a new Porsche 996TT owner (almost one year now) I am starving of information about how to keep my car in good shape. How to keep the maintenance cost as low as possible and also I love to discuss about Porsche and research on the net about all the possibilities I got to improve performance or get the maximum from this beautiful piece of technology... Also like you, I am trying to help as much as possible anybody who needs info. Sometimes I can be wrong and I am sorry about that but I am trying the best I can to be helpful. Please, I hope it is not because both of you don't agree on a subject that you will stay away from these sites. We need all kind of input from experience people like you because this site is all about informing and helping each other, isn't it ??? And there is not too many Porsche turbo owners that are too familiar with what's under the hood....Breakfast tomorrow morning downtown Montreal I'll pick you up at the airport... :rolleyes:

[clifforza]

Back to the topic at hand...

Brad, is there any kind of consensus as to what it is exactly about the installation of a SSK that causes premature wear? Improper adjustment after install, basic design flaw, "ham handed" users, etc.

[Danyol]

I've had both a standard 996 & TT with standard shifters. I upgraded to the B&M on the 996 and the 997 standard shifter in the the TT.

My experience driving each of the cars suggests it is easier to "beat" the syncro in the SSK. IMO it is also easier to NOT fully engage a gear with small physical movements giving rise to bigger mistakes. In a TT, not fully engaging a gear with the massive torque is likely to chew it up. My experience in rebuilding boxes NIL, experience with mechanical systems >25 years.

I'd venture to suggest a sensitive, precise (I'm guessing you wross), unrushed driver is likely to "feel" a gear in; someone aiming to beat the other guys to the next turn is more likely to be rough with the box.

Brad, what is the most common failure on the 2nd gear, is it the end of the teeth being chewed off?

Edited March 13, 2009 by Danyol