Preventive maintenance for 3k mi road trip - '02S

[gschotland]

I'm planning a 3k+ mile road trip in an '02 S that I'm buying from my brother. He's the 2nd owner and was diligent about maintenance, as was the first owner. No corners were cut on repairs; if it needed to be done, it was. Current mileage is 68k (he bought it at 43k). Brake and tires are in excellent shape. He's had none of the typical cooling tank, MAF, AOS problems. As far as I know none of the O2 sensors has ever been changed. Ditto for the serpentine belt.

Given the car's mileage, is there anything I should repair or replace because it's only a matter of time before it'll have to be done? I've been thinking about investing in the Durametric software to see what codes pop up.

Thanks,

Gary

[Rob in CO]

I'm planning a 3k+ mile road trip in an '02 S that I'm buying from my brother. He's the 2nd owner and was diligent about maintenance, as was the first owner. No corners were cut on repairs; if it needed to be done, it was. Current mileage is 68k (he bought it at 43k). Brake and tires are in excellent shape. He's had none of the typical cooling tank, MAF, AOS problems. As far as I know none of the O2 sensors has ever been changed. Ditto for the serpentine belt.

Given the car's mileage, is there anything I should repair or replace because it's only a matter of time before it'll have to be done? I've been thinking about investing in the Durametric software to see what codes pop up.

Thanks,

Gary

I would take a very careful look at the coolant tank. Pull the carpets in the trunk and look for any leakage. I took a 5K+ mile trip last fall in my '01S and replaced the leaking tank right before I left. Other than that, the serp belt is really easy. If there are any doubts about its age/condition I would go ahead and change that. Check the condition of the air filter while you are at it. Enjoy the trip.

Rob

[Bill_SoCal]

I'm planning a 3k+ mile road trip in an '02 S that I'm buying from my brother. He's the 2nd owner and was diligent about maintenance, as was the first owner. No corners were cut on repairs; if it needed to be done, it was. Current mileage is 68k (he bought it at 43k). Brake and tires are in excellent shape. He's had none of the typical cooling tank, MAF, AOS problems. As far as I know none of the O2 sensors has ever been changed. Ditto for the serpentine belt.

Given the car's mileage, is there anything I should repair or replace because it's only a matter of time before it'll have to be done? I've been thinking about investing in the Durametric software to see what codes pop up.

Thanks,

Gary

I would take a very careful look at the coolant tank. Pull the carpets in the trunk and look for any leakage. I took a 5K+ mile trip last fall in my '01S and replaced the leaking tank right before I left. Other than that, the serp belt is really easy. If there are any doubts about its age/condition I would go ahead and change that. Check the condition of the air filter while you are at it. Enjoy the trip.

Rob

Agree with Rob...I have 139,000 and I've had to do none of the typical. Serp belt is very easy and due at 60K. Based on the mileage, the last oil change on the vehicle was 60K? You should be good to go. Where are you driving 3K this time of the year? That's a lot of miles up and down the west coast. :D

Enjoy your trip Gary and have safe travels.

All the best,

Bill

[gschotland]

Thanks for tips, guys.

Is it possible to see the part number on the coolant tank without removing it? The first owner may have already replaced it (fingers crossed). For an '02 what would the original part number be? And if I do need to replace it, what part number should I look to purchase (what's the latest)? Someone mentioned that there are 7 versions of the tank.

On the serpentine belt, it that something I can pick up at AutoZone or is it best to stick with Sunset or some other reputable mail order place?

I live in NJ. Being in real estate development, I've got LOTS of time on my hands these days, so I thought why not take a road trip for a few weeks. Planning in early March to go to Mississippi (definitely Natchez, not sure where else yet), maybe Memphis and possibly Austin, TX. Still doing research. Should be fun just to get the hell out of here for a while. I need a change of scenery, badly.

Gary

[Rob in CO]

Gary,

I don't remember the part number and I can't find the receipt right now. I was pressed for time and just bought mine at the local dealership for a premium but not that bad over the online price. I am sure you can find the number here or on one of the parts supplier sites. I also don't remember where it appeared on the unit. If there is a leak, there is almost a 100% chance that it is on the back side of the tank that curves to conform to the inner rear fender. If you remove just the couple of attachment bolts on the floor and the firewall you should be able to wiggle the tank enough to get a good look back there with a flashlight and maybe a small mirror. In my case, it was pretty obvious that there had been a leak. If you don't see any dribbles, I think you can safely button it back up and feel safe. Access to do this replacement is MISERABLE so I wouldn't bother with it if you don't have to.

I think a serp belt bought at a major parts store would be fine. I ordered mine online with some other stuff at the time but I am pretty much of the opinion that a belt is a belt. When I did the coolant tank I cut the hoses for ease of removal and replaced them with standard stuff from Checker. Others may worry about such things. I don't and have never had problems.

If it has been awhile since checking the air filter, I would do that. Mine was nowhere near scheduled replacement last time and looked absolutely awful. I was shocked and as a lifelong car guy, a little ashamed. Definitely start your trip with a clean one.

I'm a NJ native who now lives in Colorado. Things are tough all over. If you can afford to take the road trip, absolutely do it. Few things are better at clearing the head and improving outlook.

Rob

[jmatta]

Last oil change? If it were 8k miles ago, I would definitely change it...the experts recommend no more than 6 to 7k miles between changes. Mine gets done once a year, which equates to around 2500 miles.

[Bill_SoCal]

Gary,

I don't remember the part number and I can't find the receipt right now. I was pressed for time and just bought mine at the local dealership for a premium but not that bad over the online price. I am sure you can find the number here or on one of the parts supplier sites. I also don't remember where it appeared on the unit. If there is a leak, there is almost a 100% chance that it is on the back side of the tank that curves to conform to the inner rear fender. If you remove just the couple of attachment bolts on the floor and the firewall you should be able to wiggle the tank enough to get a good look back there with a flashlight and maybe a small mirror. In my case, it was pretty obvious that there had been a leak. If you don't see any dribbles, I think you can safely button it back up and feel safe. Access to do this replacement is MISERABLE so I wouldn't bother with it if you don't have to.

I think a serp belt bought at a major parts store would be fine. I ordered mine online with some other stuff at the time but I am pretty much of the opinion that a belt is a belt. When I did the coolant tank I cut the hoses for ease of removal and replaced them with standard stuff from Checker. Others may worry about such things. I don't and have never had problems.

If it has been awhile since checking the air filter, I would do that. Mine was nowhere near scheduled replacement last time and looked absolutely awful. I was shocked and as a lifelong car guy, a little ashamed. Definitely start your trip with a clean one.

I'm a NJ native who now lives in Colorado. Things are tough all over. If you can afford to take the road trip, absolutely do it. Few things are better at clearing the head and improving outlook.

Rob

You might try Autohauz or Sunset for the belt...you'll have it in a few days. The price and quality of the belt will be what you're looking for. The link below is the belt from Autohauz.

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.a...%20Drive%20Belt

Bill

[Bill_SoCal]

Last oil change? If it were 8k miles ago, I would definitely change it...the experts recommend no more than 6 to 7k miles between changes. Mine gets done once a year, which equates to around 2500 miles.

:huh: The experts? Porsche recommends 15K or one year for this model year. You meet the one year mark...not many miles at 2,500. With today's synthetic oils, it is not environmentally friendly, nor is there a benefit to change engine oil less than the manufacturers (Porsche) specifications.

Bill B)

[jmatta]

Last oil change? If it were 8k miles ago, I would definitely change it...the experts recommend no more than 6 to 7k miles between changes. Mine gets done once a year, which equates to around 2500 miles.

:huh: The experts? Porsche recommends 15K or one year for this model year. You meet the one year mark...not many miles at 2,500. With today's synthetic oils, it is not environmentally friendly, nor is there a benefit to change engine oil less than the manufacturers (Porsche) specifications.

Bill B)

I totally disagree. If you read the information at www.flat6innovations.com and LN Engineering, one major deciding factor in M96 engine failure is fuel contamination in the oil after about 7k miles. This causes a break down and is a factor to premature failure. Porsche intially recommended 15k mile oil changes, but later retracted. It's your car, but more frequent changes, as preventitive maintenance, is cheap insurance in my book.

[mikefocke]

You have quoted Porsche correctly but what they say is misleading

The 15k service interval is recommended only for "normal driving conditions" which may be defined as moderate temperature long road trips in non-dusty conditions.

"Severe conditions" is what most of us drive in, a mix of in-town, hot and cold, stop and start driving with a few longer runs. Under those conditions, the recommendation for shorter intervals comes from Porsche (owner's manual), the "experts" and many owners.

The "experts" who recommend shorter intervals are recommending 5k or every year. The "experts" are those who tear into the internals of the engines to see why they fail, who have engineered solutions to design problems our M96 engines have and who have extensively tested our engines.

The failures in these engines suggest that Porsche and many owners are maybe not changing their oil frequently enough, not using the most effective oil filter, not using anything to trap iron particles, AND MAY NOT BE USING THE MOST EFFECTIVE OIL.

I'd prefer to invest about $60 a bit more frequently to avoid a catastrophic failure and having to spend $17K to replace the engine.

[dougfern]

I'm planning a 3k+ mile road trip in an '02 S that I'm buying from my brother. He's the 2nd owner and was diligent about maintenance, as was the first owner. No corners were cut on repairs; if it needed to be done, it was. Current mileage is 68k (he bought it at 43k). Brake and tires are in excellent shape. He's had none of the typical cooling tank, MAF, AOS problems. As far as I know none of the O2 sensors has ever been changed. Ditto for the serpentine belt.

Given the car's mileage, is there anything I should repair or replace because it's only a matter of time before it'll have to be done? I've been thinking about investing in the Durametric software to see what codes pop up.

Thanks,

Gary

Sorry, I'm brand new to this site and dont know how to post a problem so hopefully someone can help. I have an 04 cayenne S that will not drive. My psm light had been indicating failure last week, I got into my car ,put it in 4X4 and it would not move just idled at 1000 rpm's and went back down. The 4X4 would not disengage I'm certain the problem is between 4X4 and psm. I tried everything. I would like to disconnect the fuse so I can drive but I dont know what fuses nor do I have a fuse map. Does anyone have any idea what I should do?

[jmatta]

Very well stated, Mike. There are many posts regarding this topic and I highly suggest to go to the aforementioned websites and read the information and data derived from hundreds of oil analysis results reviewed by the "experts". I think it will motivate you to follow a more frequent change schedule. Here is one example of a post commented by Charles...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=397949

[jmatta]

Dougfern, you need to go to the home page and click on the Cayenne forum. Your post in the 986 Boxster area won't result in any answers.

[grover]

You have quoted Porsche correctly but what they say is misleading

The 15k service interval is recommended only for "normal driving conditions" which may be defined as moderate temperature long road trips in non-dusty conditions.

"Severe conditions" is what most of us drive in, a mix of in-town, hot and cold, stop and start driving with a few longer runs. Under those conditions, the recommendation for shorter intervals comes from Porsche (owner's manual), the "experts" and many owners.

The "experts" who recommend shorter intervals are recommending 5k or every year. The "experts" are those who tear into the internals of the engines to see why they fail, who have engineered solutions to design problems our M96 engines have and who have extensively tested our engines.

The failures in these engines suggest that Porsche and many owners are maybe not changing their oil frequently enough, not using the most effective oil filter, not using anything to trap iron particles, AND MAY NOT BE USING THE MOST EFFECTIVE OIL.

I'd prefer to invest about $60 a bit more frequently to avoid a catastrophic failure and having to spend $17K to replace the engine.

Pardon, but isn't "normal driving conditions" for a Porsche flogging it within an inch of its life every day? I don't see why Porsche would deliberately misstate fluid change intervals, as it would result in high failure rates and a direct loss of sales. In fact, they went as far as to eliminate long stated "or 1 year" interval for later model 986s because they felt it was unnecessary. After all, the Porsche factory experts (which direct access to the full factory engineering and testing resources) are the most expert of all the experts.

While I don't doubt that more frequent oil changes are prudent for some, doesn't that more apply to those who are actually racing their cars?

[Bill_SoCal]

Mike/jmaata,

Good points. Mike, you have outlined some excellent points. Having said that...

I believe Porsche went to a 20K interval for the Boxster starting in ’05, and to 24K for the Boxster/Cayman in ‘08…not shortened the oil change interval from 15K. I could be wrong. The subject of oil manufacturers and oil change intervals is very subjective because there are so many “experts.”

I agree that more frequent oil changes are necessary if you truly meet the severe duty; and that’s not only oil, it's the micron quality of the cartridge filter, and an air filter too. My Boxster is a daily driver and I would say it is driven harder than normal through LA traffic and over the mountain passes. I’ve never changed my oil more frequent than 15K since I drove it off the lot new. I have 139,000 miles on it and haven’t replaced one engine related component other than then maintenance items (air filter, drive belt, and plugs).

I’ve been in the oil business for over a decade. I deal with everyone from daily drivers, to all forms of racing (cars and motorcycles), heavy equipment, as well as heavy machine hydraulic operations. I would say I am well versed, but not an expert. The expert in this case in clearly the manufacturer(s): Porsche/Mobil1 as related to this subject.

For anyone that would really like to understand their oil and the way their engine is responding to an oil, I would recommend contacting an oil analysis laboratory, send in a sample, and then once the analysis is returned with recommended oil change intervals and the litany of minerals and measurements, call customer service at one of these companies, which are in fact industry experts on oil performance, and have them walk you through the mineral content, wear concerns based on mineral content, and why they recommend shortening or extending the oil change interval. I would never recommend extending beyond the Porsche recommended change intervals regardless of the data. It will cost $25 to $30 for anyone to become better educated on oil and their engine wear characteristics.

Blackstone Laboratories: www.blackstone-labs.com/

Oil Analyzers: http://www.oaitesting.com/

If you really interested in the chemistry aspects of synthetics and their superior performance, I recommend an older book, but very thorough in its documentation:

High Performance Automotive Fuels and Fluids, Jeff Hartman, 1996 ISBN 0-7603-0054-2

These are reliable expert sources. There are so many websites out there that are not based on empirical information or scientific evidence and these “experts” believe that have the panacea for every automotive enthusiast. I have met many engine builders that I did not find to have proficiency in oil. They all have an opinion though.

This is my last post on this thread. I like to keep my posts beneficial for the forum readers and all too many times I see the subject of oil become negative due to the varying opinions, level of experience, and dilution of factual/empirical information. I wanted to respond as to what resources are available for industry recognized lubrication experts.

All the best,

Bill B)

[jmatta]

Bill, I appreciate your comments. It is the information on this board, as well as others, that educate us on the details of our cars that some have to find out the hard way, unfortunately.

The M96 engines have some design flaws that have caused a percentage (low, mind you) of engines to grenade long before their useful life. Charles Navarro and Jake Raby have spent considerable time and money researching these inherit flaws to determine their cause and to find fixes that will insure longevity. I am not an engineer (poor banker, instead), but I read their write ups with great interest and will take steps so that my Box S isn't the next victim.

There are numerous debates on which oil is best/worse for our engines. Until you have a failure and teardown, you don't know the culprit behind the failure. The guys at Flat 6 have dissected many M96 engines and base their recommendations on their findings. It may be contrary to question the almighty Porsche engineers, but in this case, the bean counters won and the engineers lost.

One of the primary issues with the M96 engine, other than design weaknesses, is the way the piston rings seal against the cylinders. This allows for fuel intrusion into the motor oil which causes break downs. I don't care how good the oil is; when mixed with fuel, it won't be good for long. Anyone who has some time on their hands and would like to do some reading on the topic, refer to this link, as well as the Flat 6 and LN websites.

http://www.ppbb.com/boards/ppbbphp/showfla...part=1&vc=1