99 986 Motor Replacement

[Ronald986]

Hello All. New poster here with a big decision to make. I own a 99 boxster 5 spd with just under 90,000 miles. I bought the car used with 84K on it. The car was impeccably maintained at the dealer and had all scheduled services and then some. I live in San Jose.

I'm just getting to really enjoy the car since I've only put 6K on it or so. Last week with no warning the engine failed. Sounds like the infamous rms failure. I have the car at my mechanic now and am trying to decide what to do. A crate motor is out of the question due to age and maileage of the car and total cost of redo.

So it looks like my options are to buy a used motor and have my mechanic put it in, or sell the car to somebody else who wants to do the same. I have been looking around for motors at recycling yards and have come accross a few. I am hesitant to put in another 2.5 since I'd lose my mind if I spent all that money and had another rms failure in another year or so.

I have come accross an '05 3.2 for sale that is actually mroe reasonable than most 2.5 or 2.7's, I guess because there is not as much call for them since most people who have failed engines try to replace with what was in there in the first place and not nearly as many '05's have failed.

So my question is, can my competent porsche specializing mechanic put an 05 3.2 in my 99 without trying to reinvent the whole car? I've read a lot of the threads regarding engine replacement but haven't seen this specific thing done. I think '05 has variocam plus?

Next question is, if my mechanic is not willing to tackle this, or if the sagely advice on this forum indicates that the job would be very difficult, is there a market for a very well maintained 99 boxster with a new soft top and just completed 90,000 mile service but a blown motor out there?

Most important thing to me is that if I do have the engine reinstall done that that the car is as good (or better) than before from a reliability/drive it every day perspective. The extra displacement and HP is of course welcome, but I'm a car driver not a mechanically gifted car mechanic so if the end result is finnicky this replacement would not be ideal for me.

Thanks so much in advance for your help. This forum is fantastic.

Ron

[phillipj]

Do a search here (use the search tool at top right of page) on Boxster engine failure/replacement. You will find a plethora of options, opinions and choices. Good luck and weigh your options carefully.

I'm sorry to hear what happened but if it's any consolation it happened to my 996 too :angry:

Edited February 3, 2009 by phillipj

[txhokie4life]

Do a search here (use the search tool at top right of page) on Boxster engine failure/replacement. You will find a plethora of options, opinions and choices. Good luck and weigh your options carefully.

I'm sorry to hear what happened but if it's any consolation it happened to my 996 too :angry:

So the issues I think you will have is

1) the DME on the 2005 3.2 is different than the 2.5L --- if the motor comes with the 3.2L, then that will help, but

you still might have issues with the alarm system. If you do -- I'm not sure if you have to buy a new alarm controller,

and take it to Porsche to allow them to collaborate, or if you can get the 3.2 DME to be reporgrammed by Porsche

to talk to the existing alarm computer.

2) the '99 boxster is non-E GAS (i.e. it has a throttle cable) -- you might be able to take the top half of the

2.5L 99 and mate it with the 3.2L bottom half. But I don't know for sure.

Even the 3.2L has its failure mechnisms, including but not limited to IMS issues. From qeb research it appears it

is less likely, but still possible.

M

[Glyn]

Replace the motor with a 2.5 unless you want to spend a great deal more with all the ancillary bits to make it go - You will also have a modified car which will up the insurrance.

You will need to upgrade the brakes too.

A 2.5 will drop straight in and should be no less reliable than any other engine.

Have you had it confirmed the IMS has failed as your mail says RMS - which is only a seal therefore i think you mean IMS (intermediate shaft - which totaly fooks the engine

[jmatta]

I agree with the above...later motors take some work to be compatible; just replace with another 2.5 and you should be good to go and spend the least amount of $'s. Depending upon damage, you may want to look into a Jake Raby rebuild to 2.9 ltrs. Visit www.flat6innovations.com for details.

[Ronald986]

I agree with the above...later motors take some work to be compatible; just replace with another 2.5 and you should be good to go and spend the least amount of $'s. Depending upon damage, you may want to look into a Jake Raby rebuild to 2.9 ltrs. Visit www.flat6innovations.com for details.

Thanks for the responses guys. Yes I did mean the IMS, not the rear main seal. Sorry for the typo. It is my understanding that while the IMS problem wasn't solved in later years, I thought that they had done some improvements somewhere around '02. Something about beefing up the bolt that shears off the end. This is the reason I was looking at newer motors. Psychologically, I have a very hard time putting the same motor with the exact same defect in my car.

So are the newer motors, while still not perfect, better? Or I am looking at the same odds regardless of what engine I put in?

I'll check out the 2.9 rebuild as well.

Any feedback from anyone on whether there is any market for the car without a motor? At this point I'm thinking if somebody wanted to give me 4-5K for the car I'd sell it and buy a newer model. Am I dreaming here?

Thanks again, Ron

[txhokie4life]

I agree with the above...later motors take some work to be compatible; just replace with another 2.5 and you should be good to go and spend the least amount of $'s. Depending upon damage, you may want to look into a Jake Raby rebuild to 2.9 ltrs. Visit www.flat6innovations.com for details.

Thanks for the responses guys. Yes I did mean the IMS, not the rear main seal. Sorry for the typo. It is my understanding that while the IMS problem wasn't solved in later years, I thought that they had done some improvements somewhere around '02. Something about beefing up the bolt that shears off the end. This is the reason I was looking at newer motors. Psychologically, I have a very hard time putting the same motor with the exact same defect in my car.

So are the newer motors, while still not perfect, better? Or I am looking at the same odds regardless of what engine I put in?

I'll check out the 2.9 rebuild as well.

Any feedback from anyone on whether there is any market for the car without a motor? At this point I'm thinking if somebody wanted to give me 4-5K for the car I'd sell it and buy a newer model. Am I dreaming here?

Thanks again, Ron

I don't think anyone can quote you odds --- heck its supposedly low odds to happen in the first place.

When I rebuilt my 986 3.2L I snagged a completely re-engineered IMS from LnEngineering. Charles Navarro and Jake Raby collaborate on

quite a few things. Note there was nothing "wrong" with my original IMS (I bought mine with a water pump failure), but I figured better

safe than sorry.

Here is a picture of an IMS which is redesigned by LnEngineering and an OEM IMS (not sure which vintage) -- check out www.lnengineering.com

Edited February 4, 2009 by txhokie4life

[Ronald986]

I agree with the above...later motors take some work to be compatible; just replace with another 2.5 and you should be good to go and spend the least amount of $'s. Depending upon damage, you may want to look into a Jake Raby rebuild to 2.9 ltrs. Visit www.flat6innovations.com for details.

Thanks for the responses guys. Yes I did mean the IMS, not the rear main seal. Sorry for the typo. It is my understanding that while the IMS problem wasn't solved in later years, I thought that they had done some improvements somewhere around '02. Something about beefing up the bolt that shears off the end. This is the reason I was looking at newer motors. Psychologically, I have a very hard time putting the same motor with the exact same defect in my car.

So are the newer motors, while still not perfect, better? Or I am looking at the same odds regardless of what engine I put in?

I'll check out the 2.9 rebuild as well.

Any feedback from anyone on whether there is any market for the car without a motor? At this point I'm thinking if somebody wanted to give me 4-5K for the car I'd sell it and buy a newer model. Am I dreaming here?

Thanks again, Ron

I don't think anyone can quote you odds --- heck its supposedly low odds to happen in the first place.

When I rebuilt my 986 3.2L I snagged a completely re-engineered IMS from LnEngineering. Charles Navarro and Jake Raby collaborate on

quite a few things. Note there was nothing "wrong" with my original IMS (I bought mine with a water pump failure), but I figured better

safe than sorry.

Here is a picture of an IMS which is redesigned by LnEngineering and an OEM IMS (not sure which vintage) -- check out www.lnengineering.com

So if I get a used engine put into my car, how much additional work would it be to have an ln engineering new IMS put in? This would not be a diy situation, my mechanic would be doing the work.

Thanks

[Stefan]

You really have to prioritize money and reliability. The cheapest (by far) option is to replace your engine with a used 2.5L. The engine should cost you about $2k and installation $2k or slightly more. You get almost identical reliability by going to a 3.2L engine. The cost will be higher ($1k more for the engine and $1k more for installation) but you will obviously have more power.

As far as installing the 2.9L Raby engine, this is probably the most expensive option. You can replace your engine with used 2.5L engines three times before you get to the cost of installing one of his.

I replaced my 2.5L engine with a 3.4L 996 engine and am happy with it. I didn't buy any reliability either, just power. The installation was as straightforward as it gets for installing a different engine.

[phillipj]

+1 great advice :D

[txhokie4life]

I agree with the above...later motors take some work to be compatible; just replace with another 2.5 and you should be good to go and spend the least amount of $'s. Depending upon damage, you may want to look into a Jake Raby rebuild to 2.9 ltrs. Visit www.flat6innovations.com for details.

Thanks for the responses guys. Yes I did mean the IMS, not the rear main seal. Sorry for the typo. It is my understanding that while the IMS problem wasn't solved in later years, I thought that they had done some improvements somewhere around '02. Something about beefing up the bolt that shears off the end. This is the reason I was looking at newer motors. Psychologically, I have a very hard time putting the same motor with the exact same defect in my car.

So are the newer motors, while still not perfect, better? Or I am looking at the same odds regardless of what engine I put in?

I'll check out the 2.9 rebuild as well.

Any feedback from anyone on whether there is any market for the car without a motor? At this point I'm thinking if somebody wanted to give me 4-5K for the car I'd sell it and buy a newer model. Am I dreaming here?

Thanks again, Ron

I don't think anyone can quote you odds --- heck its supposedly low odds to happen in the first place.

When I rebuilt my 986 3.2L I snagged a completely re-engineered IMS from LnEngineering. Charles Navarro and Jake Raby collaborate on

quite a few things. Note there was nothing "wrong" with my original IMS (I bought mine with a water pump failure), but I figured better

safe than sorry.

Here is a picture of an IMS which is redesigned by LnEngineering and an OEM IMS (not sure which vintage) -- check out www.lnengineering.com

So if I get a used engine put into my car, how much additional work would it be to have an ln engineering new IMS put in? This would not be a diy situation, my mechanic would be doing the work.

Thanks

Note the only way to replace the IMS -- is to rebulid the engine. Or at least crack open one half of the block.

Not a DIY (for 99% of the world), and not a trivial excercise.

LnEngineering is working on a retrofit -- but I do not know where that is from a time frame wise, nor the effort involved.

mike

[Jaay]

If your interested I am replacing my motor now with a 3.4 and I have the same year as you. Here is the link.

http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19449

[Ronald986]

If your interested I am replacing my motor now with a 3.4 and I have the same year as you. Here is the link.

http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19449

Thanks. Very interesting and great photos. I'm just about to pull the trigger on an '05 3.2 for my car. Mechanic has done a number of replacements and is confident that he can make it all work like new. Has a fix for the variocam plus and the egas to wire etc. Just doing a bit more homework before I make the plunge.

[mikefocke]

Interested in the total cost quote on your 3.2 replacement of a 2.5.

I'm thinking the options are on the order of:

$4.5k-$5.5k for 2.5

$6k-$7k for 2.7 or 3.2

$7.5k-$8.5k for 3.4

$18k for 3.7 by Jake

all prices are my ballpark guess based on using used motors with an independent mechanic doing the work who had done one before. I figure at least $2k labor for a replacement motor (which I think is too low) and $3k for a no-egas to egas swap (which I also think is too low). And that doesn't count doing the clutch while you have the motor out or replacing the motor mounts and transmission mounts or anything else you want repaired/upgraded. Slippery slope.

Edited February 6, 2009 by mikefocke

[Ronald986]

Interested in the total cost quote on your 3.2 replacement of a 2.5.

I'm thinking the options are on the order of:

$4.5k-$5.5k for 2.5

$6k-$7k for 2.7 or 3.2

$7.5k-$8.5k for 3.4

$18k for 3.7 by Jake

all prices are my ballpark guess based on using used motors with an independent mechanic doing the work who had done one before. I figure at least $2k labor for a replacement motor (which I think is too low) and $3k for a no-egas to egas swap (which I also think is too low). And that doesn't count doing the clutch while you have the motor out or replacing the motor mounts and transmission mounts or anything else you want repaired/upgraded. Slippery slope.

The mechanic I'm dealing with (not my regular mechanic) does a lot of performance engine work and has done several switches in past. His estimate not including clutch materials if required is about 3K for the labor all in. He just did an 02 (non variocam plus) 3.2 into a 99 boxster and it took him 32 hours labor. He's thinking he can cut about three hours off that given that he just did one and can be more efficient this time. Shop time is $99 an hour. In both cases egas to no egas.

Could get a 2.5 dropped in for 1K-1200 less likely due to simpler job. 2.5's are just as expensive to buy as 3.2's, at least that's what I'm finding when I look. People often talk about 2.5's available for 2K but the few I've come accross are more like 4K. Again, no cheaper than a 3.2.

Haven't looked too much at 3.4's, but one place told me they are usually about 6500 for the engine alone. Probably another 3500 (???) to get put in including the extra parts you might have to find or fabricate.

Best fit from Raby looks like a 2.7 rebuilt with 260HP and lots of torque. Engine alone is 12Kish but is much superior by the sounds of it. Lots of money to put into a 13K car though.

[phillipj]

You might want to take look at what used Porsches (all models) are going for now. They are very, very cheap. It may make more sense to just get another car as long as your not taking a huge hit on your existing car.

In my case I just bought my car 3 months earlier before the engine went. If were to have sold it "as is" I would have been lucky to get $8 to $10k for it (and it's a 2000 C2 cab with lots of goodies.) I would have taken a total loss so an engine replacement made more sense for me.

I saw some rediculous deals on 05 Carrera's with warranties. I would imagine all models have fallen drastically.

Look around, do some research, crunch the numbers and see what makes sense. Remember if you do an engine swap (other than OEM) you will not be able to get an extended warranty.

I will never buy another Porsche without an extended warranty again. Well worth the money.

Hope this helps and good luck...

:renntech:

[Ronald986]

You might want to take look at what used Porsches (all models) are going for now. They are very, very cheap. It may make more sense to just get another car as long as your not taking a huge hit on your existing car.

In my case I just bought my car 3 months earlier before the engine went. If were to have sold it "as is" I would have been lucky to get $8 to $10k for it (and it's a 2000 C2 cab with lots of goodies.) I would have taken a total loss so an engine replacement made more sense for me.

I saw some rediculous deals on 05 Carrera's with warranties. I would imagine all models have fallen drastically.

Look around, do some research, crunch the numbers and see what makes sense. Remember if you do an engine swap (other than OEM) you will not be able to get an extended warranty.

I will never buy another Porsche without an extended warranty again. Well worth the money.

Hope this helps and good luck...

:renntech:

Thanks for the advice. I am looking at all options. When you talk about 911 with warranties are you talking about aftermarket warranties? Or are you talking about buying from a dealer and getting a Porsche warranty? The only way I'd buy another Porsche, assuming I sell the boxster as is, is with a warranty as well.

[Jake Raby]

Best fit from Raby looks like a 2.7 rebuilt with 260HP and lots of torque. Engine alone is 12Kish but is much superior by the sounds of it. Lots of money to put into a 13K car though

Look for revised dyno numbers soon as well as an alteration in our pricing schedule. Recent developments and the addition of more capability here has made more power and less cost a reality.

Our 2.9 and the 2.7 are now the same cost, and both can be built from a factory 2.5

We have a new test engine in development now that can make a long stroke 89mm bored engine that will be around 3.2 liters. This installs without ANY conversion hassles at all and can be built from a 2.5 or 2.7 base engine.

Needless to say we are busy!

[norcal_tom]

I was wondering, are there any of your engines in the field, in service??? I'm curious about any real world data. Do they run warm in traffic (due to larger bore) , how do they handle being driven daily, you know, stuff like that.

[Jake Raby]

I was wondering, are there any of your engines in the field, in service???

Absolutely. The technology has been employed for the better part of 4 years now.

I'm curious about any real world data.

We are as well... Thats why I have two engine dynos, a chassis dyno and 3 different data loggers with up to 28 challens of data collection capability.

Do they run warm in traffic (due to larger bore) ,

No they don't run hotter. The bore may be larger but the cylinder material used has already proven to allow 100HP per cylinder in aircooled applications, reliably. With the watercooled engines we have yet to scratch the surface of power potential from cool running big bores using the "Nickies" technology. The cylinders are Nikisil plated, just like the 911 of yesterday so friction reduction is key to keeping cooler running temps.

To date we have not gathered any data that suggests that the engines will run any hotter than a bone stock engine. We are working to add this data to the web site in a searchable data base and thats happening this week. ALL I do here is product development and testing and we have data on every component we sell as well as a full understanding of it's function before it leaves my facility.

how do they handle being driven daily, you know, stuff like that

Thats what EVERYTHING we have done to date has been developed for- everyday, dual purpose street driving with added longevity and reliability. Since there are few competetive race classes that the M96 is applied to that can see our level of modification "legally" not much has been done to develop track only engines... We are working on this now since there is an increase in cars being converted for track only use because they are so **** cheap these days.

What we are doing is controversial and we do get our share of "doubt", thats for sure.. But its just because we chose to work with a problematic engine and then to hot rod it to a level that no one else could imagine... In my experience the doubt has been a catalyst to my development and a driving force to take our data collection to the highest level. This isn't my first Rodeo with developing problematic engines and I am used to the negative aspects of doing so.

Remember: We started out ONLY doing modifications and creating components that would enhance reliability of these engines, but it didn't take long to see that the performance could be capitalized on as well.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Jake Raby

[Fastback]

Wow man I'm sorry to hear about your engine problems. I'm kinda shocked that your engine blew with that many miles already on it. Kinda freaks me out since I'm looking at a boxster right now with about 90k miles on it. I thought it would be relatively safe from failure since most i've seen fail happen under 65k miles. Now i'm back to biting my nails in worry again.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Fastback

[norcal_tom]

What we are doing is controversial and we do get our share of "doubt", thats for sure.. But its just because we chose to work with a problematic engine and then to hot rod it to a level that no one else could imagine... In my experience the doubt has been a catalyst to my development and a driving force to take our data collection to the highest level. This isn't my first Rodeo with developing problematic engines and I am used to the negative aspects of doing so.

Remember: We started out ONLY doing modifications and creating components that would enhance reliability of these engines, but it didn't take long to see that the performance could be capitalized on as well.

Thanks Jake. I'm not doubting you, I have just never heard of a street install of any of your engines. I was curious if there are any out there w/ some miles on them (30k+) yet and how they working in comparison to the factory engines. You have a viable option should a failure happen that I would consider for my car.

[KenJ]

This isn't my first Rodeo with developing problematic engines and I am used to the negative aspects of doing so.

I started to laugh at this statement.... I know what you meant, but it doesn't quite come out that way.

kj