PCM Navigation Updates - Europe

[berty987]

Hi all,

I am in the process of trying to write a letter to Porsche AG and Navteq to see if any new MAP updates can be made available for the PCM2.1. Form what I have been able to find out so far, Navteq are held in an agreement by Porsche not to supply their maps directly to Porsche customers. Porsche seem reluctant to commission Navteq to produce any new map updates and so there have been no updates to the maps since 2006 (even the 2007 maps are 2006 date stamped on the software). Considering the map availability affects all porsche models (Cayenne , 997 , Boxster 987 and Cayman) fitted with the PCM 2.1 , I can only assume there is a very large customer base all wanting an update. If you own a 997, 987, or cayenne with PCM2.1 and would be interested in buying a map update please add your name to the list. Hopefully if I can get an idea of the number of people interested it may add weight to the argument.

If you feel that you would not specify the navigation or PCM option on a new Porsche as a result of the availability issues with your current system , please vote YES in the third question.

Edited January 27, 2009 by berty987

[SA321]

there also a bunch of people with PCM 2 that had to wait 5 years 2003 - 2008 for European map updates which now cost more than brand new full featured better looking navigation device. you should run a poll for them too. gotta say as good as these cars are in driving as bad they are in all stuff electronic

[jwolfe]

Hi all,

I am in the process of trying to write a letter to Porsche AG and Navteq to see if any new MAP updates can be made available for the PCM2.1. Form what I have been able to find out so far, Navteq are held in an agreement by Porsche not to supply their maps directly to Porsche customers. Porsche seem reluctant to commission Navteq to produce any new map updates and so there have been no updates to the maps since 2006 (even the 2007 maps are 2006 date stamped on the software). Considering the map availability affects all porsche models (Cayenne , 997 , Boxster 987 and Cayman) fitted with the PCM 2.1 , I can only assume there is a very large customer base all wanting an update. If you own a 997, 987, or cayenne with PCM2.1 and would be interested in buying a map update please add your name to the list. Hopefully if I can get an idea of the number of people interested it may add weight to the argument.

If you feel that you would not specify the navigation or PCM option on a new Porsche as a result of the availability issues with your current system , please vote YES in the third question.

[tomnash]

The most serious flaw in the navigation system, at least in the USA, is the inability to select the level of roads that are made invisible to avoid clutter at any given scale. In rural and remote situations (deserts, mountains, coastal California, etc.) there are many wonderful Porsche class roads that are only visible on extremely small scales so you can only see only a mile or so of them.

In these situations, there are no other (or few) roads for many miles around and there would be no clutter if these roads were possible to make visible on larger scales. It is extremely frustrating not to be able to look ahead to see where bends and possible turn-offs will be coming. The most egregious example of this is the Pacific Coastal road (rte 1) which become invisible at scales larger than 0.3 mi (if my memory is correct).

I am sure the internals of the software has a parameter that controls what level of road is visible at any scale. It would not take a huge effort to make this available for driver adjustment, either via a knob or or a menu choice.

I have brought this up with Porsche and I don't think they get it. Maybe your letter could address this issue also.

I had a few minutes playing with the nav system in the new 997-2 and I believe it is somewhat better in that some of these roads are visible at slightly larger scales, but I could find no control of the level of road made visible available to the driver.

Perhaps this problem is not so serious in Europe where small roads are in cities and villages and well defined, but here we have small roads that go on for 100s of miles.

I love my 997 C4Cab and can seriously find no other flaws in its engineering, but this issue (and the clunkiness of the whole PCM interface) is a real embarrassment for Porsche in my book.

[berty987]

I understand the frustrations with the Becker systems , these are not the premium in navigation systems one may expect in a Porsche , but in their defence , the interface with the audio , telephone and dash display does work well. As to the map detail this is determined more by the mapping company than the hardware. My plan is to try and encourage Porsche and Navteq to assist existing PCM2.1 and also PCM 2 owners by making updated maps available at least on a yearly basis. Porsche have strangled the market by specifying a nav system that will only work with their own brand mapping software , this results in a somewhat reduced market and focused purely on Porsche owners. Other car manufacturers such as VW , Renault , BMW use a common MAP DVD with other manufacturers and brands of hardware. As a result , the market for retailing map updates is bigger and more cost effective.

[percymon]

Given the deficiencies and cost of the factory system they should give the map updates for free.-The market for TomTom maps is massive in comparison, but given the volume that Navteq market across the other car users the costs charged by Porsche are silly. Whilever people keep paying it, they'll keep charging it.

Interestingly, a lot of the European used car buyers guides are now saying don't bother with PCM (whereas a year ago they were firmly saying buy with PCM) - they have finally realised its not an economic sat nav system

[DWHITE]

The main bugbear that I find is in towns/cities when recently pedestrianised areas are still shown as passable on my PCM. Just try driving through Sheffield!

I was told that annual updates would be available but the OPC was abysmal at the time!

I have to say the system although convenient and tidy (view/anti theft etc) it isn't a patch to the system on my Jag XF

[neil.c]

It's a nice in car ornament ;)

[tomnash]

As to the map detail this is determined more by the mapping company than the hardware.

No, I am afraid this is not correct. The mapping company (Navteq) provides just the map data. Control over what roads are displayed (and what options the driver has) is entirely the responsibility of the Porsche software, which is not developed my Navteq. I don't know who Porsche has contracted to develop this (lousy) software, but Navteq assured me it is not them.

[berty987]

As to the map detail this is determined more by the mapping company than the hardware.

No, I am afraid this is not correct. The mapping company (Navteq) provides just the map data. Control over what roads are displayed (and what options the driver has) is entirely the responsibility of the Porsche software, which is not developed my Navteq. I don't know who Porsche has contracted to develop this (lousy) software, but Navteq assured me it is not them.

I'm surprised at this , as the map updates from rivals such as teleatlas have michelin guides and points of interest on the disc supplied direct from them. I would have expected the map to have been written in a series of layers or overlays, I believe this is how the speed camera database and other cartographic add ins are handled. Harman Becker / Seimens are responsible for making the hardware and indeed thier name appears on the Map DVD also , but i was under the impression that Navteq actually produce the map , therefore would be responsible for how its coded , its layers of detail and so on. The bugbear seems to be that items such as minor roads are not rescaled so that they are visible on a wider scale selected by the pcm. I beleive this would require some additional smart software in the PCM to be able to dispay higher levels of map detail in less densely populated areas , ie effectively displaying two map scales at once.

Personally I find the thumbwheel control zoom function on the multi function steering wheel does a great job of allowing you to see the detail of a smaller road as you approach a junction. For those frustrated with the PCM detail levels I would suggest trying a car with this function and considering retro fitting the controls (as I did). There are other benefits to this function such as a volume mute and better control of the PCM , especially if an i pod or MP3 function is enabled.

Edited January 29, 2009 by berty987

[engnr1]

Just got a Cayman delivered in late '08. A specific problem is that the reconfigured Springfield interchange in Northern Virginia, which opened in 2007, shows up on the map with its completely different 2003 and earlier layout. You'd think they update the mapware once a year.

[AP 997S]

I suspect NAVTEQ has up-to-date maps and POIs but Porsche chooses to update their NAV DVDs on their timeline . . . . . Not NAVTEQs and certainly not according to customer needs.

NAVTEQ does mapping for lots of GPS devices (OEM & aftermarket) but Porsche has an exclusive license agreement w/ them that prohibits NAVTEQ from helping.

:angry: :censored: :angry: :censored: :angry:

[DanH]

Any news on this?

[berty987]

I plan on writing the letter to Porsche in the next week or so. Unfortunately the response to the poll has been a little slow, and though the figures do show unanimous signs of frustration with the release of updates , the weight of numbers is not significant. I will keep you all posted with progress

[Knakker]

I'm really interested in getting an update the easy way. Would love the idea that customers could download the update, burn a DVD and install the update themselves. It's 2009 nowadays ;-)

[david944s2]

I'm just looking into a map update for my MY06 (built in '05). It is the DVD system with I suspect the earliest PCM software versions- The dealers are offering full upgrades for $299 (some kind of special here in the US I guess) - My real question has to do with the user interface, not the updated data. Is there much of an improvement in the user interface or is there not much differece from 2.1abc, etc? If you can point me to a site or screen shots, that would be great!

[explorer2]

Dear members,

one of the major limit of the PCM is that it does not show speed traps, autovelox etc... is there any website that can provide this "upgrade" like it is possibleto do it for BMW navigator system?

[AIB]

Could you also include in your letter to Porsche to have them include the map of Lebanon on the Middle East NAV CD... I know it's a small country but you would be amazed the amount of Porsche's we have there!!! Beirut is a very posh city and people love to show off. However till now we don't have a map for Lebanon on the PCM even though there are a few mapping companies who have already mapped Lebanon and all Porsche has to do is buy the maps from them and integrate them into the PCM.

Thanks

[AP 997S]

Don't really want to a cynic but do you guys think Porsche really gives a s**t about their NAV system mapping? Especially in light of all the economic chaos. They had years (prior to the down turn) to get it right and chose not to. They went so far as to block NAVTEQ from supplying map updates directly (PCM 2+) to Porsche customers.

In case it's a surprise Porsche doesn't embrace user electronics (ie. NAV, audio, etc) as part of the 'driving experience' and therefore it's not on their priority list.

So get used to the out of date maps and the exorbitant fees Porsche charges for 'so called' up dates.

OK . . . I'm off the soap box . . . . . Next?

:soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:

[explorer2]

Given the slow response of Porsche, are there any other alternatives? Even looking at some p2p download?

[berty987]

There are no p2p download options. The PCM 2.1 and 2.0 use navteq map data but the DVD/ CD's are coded by Porsche. There is no point in having speed camera databases as there is no way of updating the PCM map other than a new disc. Porsche will never allow the end user to download map data updates in case of software errors / claims and the encryption would be open to attack. If you are looking for a flexible navigation system with Mp3 capability and bluetooth, better to get a pioneer or kenwood aftermarket unit. Stand alaone speed camera GPS units or detectors are likely to be cheaper than having the info on a database. Not all european countries allow speed camera detectors or warning devices, this is probably why there are few if no OEM car manufacturers that include speed camera databases on their navigation systems.

If you have a PM fitted in your car you have the option of sticking with porsche or ripping it out. There are no backdoor or alternative routes to updating the PCM mapping data.

[Filin]

I plan on writing the letter to Porsche in the next week or so... I will keep you all posted with progress

Hello Berty987

Is there any news?

Edited June 28, 2009 by Filin

[NikosF]

Did anything ever come of this?

[brendel]

I have seen an Update available on the Porsche Tequipment brochure, it is very recent, at least in Europe, it also bring a compass option for the PCM, it is available on the website, just check out Porsche.com and select Europe

[petes]

I have seen an Update available on the Porsche Tequipment brochure, it is very recent, at least in Europe, it also bring a compass option for the PCM, it is available on the website, just check out Porsche.com and select Europe

Hi Brendel

Have you got a link by any chance - tried to find it on the UK site, but can't. I doin't think the compass is new - isn't that a feature of the extended navigation module?

Thx

pete S

Edited February 16, 2012 by petes