"Double clutching"

[zoomsan]

Hi Everyone,

Every now and then when I'm at a stop and shift from neutral to 1st gear, it's a little difficult to get it into gear. Sometimes I'm able to kinda force the stick into gear, but most of the time, I need to put the transmission back into neutral, lift my foot off the clutch, depress the clutch, and try shifting again. 8 out of 10 times I'm able to get it back into 1st gear. Is this a sign of something horrible about to happen to the transmission?

I have 48k on my 99 C2S and other than this, have no other issues with the clutch or transmission. In general, shifting to the other gears is smooth.

Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[SNaray8442]

Do you have an aftermarket shifter?

[RF5BPilot]

Approximately the same thing happens with my stock trans. It's happened on other cars as well. Since it happens rarely, I didn't figure any kind of adjustment would help. I just try to be gentle with it, put it back into neutral, then shift in again. Some of the older transmissions did much better if you shifted from neutral into 2nd, then move it into first. I haven't had that experience in the 996 -- but you could try it.

[zoomsan]

Do you have an aftermarket shifter?

I have a stock shifter. Actually thought about switching over to a new shifter, but didn't think it would help much.

[zoomsan]

Approximately the same thing happens with my stock trans. It's happened on other cars as well. Since it happens rarely, I didn't figure any kind of adjustment would help. I just try to be gentle with it, put it back into neutral, then shift in again. Some of the older transmissions did much better if you shifted from neutral into 2nd, then move it into first. I haven't had that experience in the 996 -- but you could try it.

Thanks for the advice. I've been given the same advice and will probably do it, but I'm still not satisfied that something like this shouldn't be happening IF the transmission is OK. If there is something wrong with the tranny, I'd prefer to knock it out before things get too bad.

[wwest]

Hi Everyone,

Every now and then when I'm at a stop and shift from neutral to 1st gear, it's a little difficult to get it into gear. Sometimes I'm able to kinda force the stick into gear, but most of the time, I need to put the transmission back into neutral, lift my foot off the clutch, depress the clutch, and try shifting again. 8 out of 10 times I'm able to get it back into 1st gear. Is this a sign of something horrible about to happen to the transmission?

I have 48k on my 99 C2S and other than this, have no other issues with the clutch or transmission. In general, shifting to the other gears is smooth.

Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

SOP for manual transmissions, even worse, more often, shifting into reverse when full stopped and therefore the gearbox synchronizers cannot be fully operational.

The method I use when this happens is to shift into a different, higher gear, release the clutch just lightly, enough to move the gear teeth/cogs, and then complete my shift into first or reverse. This is basically the same problem you might have shifting a true (assuming dog/spline "transfer clutch) 4X4 from 2WD into 4X4 mode while fully stopped.

Edited December 9, 2008 by wwest

[70Sixter]

Some of the older transmissions did much better if you shifted from neutral into 2nd, then move it into first.

This is true in my -6.

[lenobleb]

Hello,

Here is a real simple thing you can try.

If you are sitting at a light with the transmission in neutral and your foot off the clutch, the transmission is turning. When you step on the clutch and shift into first gear, the synchronizer has to stop the transmission.

When you step on the clutch the transmission has no input power and will eventually stop turning. Try stepping on the clutch, wait a few seconds for the shafts to stop, and THEN put select first gear. The synchro doesn't have to do anything, and it may be easier to engage the gear. You will also put less wear on the synchro that way.

Good luck,

Barry

[1999Porsche911]

Just drive like you are supposed to do and keep the car. in gear at all times. Sitting at a light in neutral is not only unsafe buy can cause problems such as the one you have as well as puts unnecessary stress on the syncos. The explaination that Barry gave is right on, so just keep it in gear. You should be able to downshift into first gear at any speed under 30 mph.

Edited December 10, 2008 by 1999Porsche911

[topmech0]

Just drive like you are supposed to do and keep the car. in gear at all times. Sitting at a light in neutral is not only unsafe buy can cause problems such as the one you have as well as puts unnecessary stress on the syncos. The explaination that Barry gave is right on, so just keep it in gear. You should be able to downshift into first gear at any speed under 30 mph.

i disagree! you should not sit with foot on clutch and in gear. that just wears out the clutch mechanisms like the pressure plate,disc and throw out bearing. i think the problem you are having is the first signs of clutch drag and hence when you remove foot from clutch and reapply then it slips in! when you release the pedal does it return fully? if not then you have air in the hydraullic system or a faulty cylinder.

[1999Porsche911]

Just drive like you are supposed to do and keep the car. in gear at all times. Sitting at a light in neutral is not only unsafe buy can cause problems such as the one you have as well as puts unnecessary stress on the syncos. The explaination that Barry gave is right on, so just keep it in gear. You should be able to downshift into first gear at any speed under 30 mph.

i disagree! you should not sit with foot on clutch and in gear. that just wears out the clutch mechanisms like the pressure plate,disc and throw out bearing. i think the problem you are having is the first signs of clutch drag and hence when you remove foot from clutch and reapply then it slips in! when you release the pedal does it return fully? if not then you have air in the hydraullic system or a faulty cylinder.

The clutch mechanism, including pressure plate and release bearing are deisigned for use and keeping the clutch disengaged at a light or stop sign will not prematurely wear them out. If you are worried about things wearing out, why would you choose to wear out the transmission rather than the inexpensive pressure plate and release bearing? Your's in another old and incorrect argument. I guess maybe we should turn the engine off at the same time to keep the injectors, fuel pump, spark plugs, serpentine belt, water pump, etc. etc. from wearing out?

[zoomsan]

Thanks a bunch, guys! All great suggestions and I will try the tests suggested. Looks like there are a couple of different schools of opinion, so I'll take the most cautious one.

At least there is some explanation and I'm not the only schmuck doing this or experiencing this.

[pjalexandre]

Yeah but my leg gets tired. :) Sorry but I and nearly everyone I know who drives a stick leaves it in neutral at a red light.

Just drive like you are supposed to do and keep the car. in gear at all times. Sitting at a light in neutral is not only unsafe buy can cause problems such as the one you have as well as puts unnecessary stress on the syncos. The explaination that Barry gave is right on, so just keep it in gear. You should be able to downshift into first gear at any speed under 30 mph.

[deanslist.us]

I have always been told that the better practice is to leave it out of gear and in neutral when waiting at a light. I assumed this was a universal practice. This is the first time somebody has told me you should leave it in gear with the clutch depressed...wouldn't this cause problems in the clutch master cylinder, if waiting at a prolonged light?

[lenobleb]

I have always been told that the better practice is to leave it out of gear and in neutral when waiting at a light. I assumed this was a universal practice. This is the first time somebody has told me you should leave it in gear with the clutch depressed...wouldn't this cause problems in the clutch master cylinder, if waiting at a prolonged light?

Hello,

There should not be any wear on the clutch MC. It's going to wear (a tiny bit) each time you press the clutch pedal. Once it's all the way down, there is no motion and no wear.

Other parts in the clutch assembly, like the pilot bearing (which gets loaded only when you press the clutch), pressure plate, etc. will wear, but again, this is minor.

Personally, I will put the car in neutral if I will be stopped for 30 around seconds or longer. Less than that and I'll just leave it in gear. IMHO, it's more personal preference than anything else.

Barry

[mcliquid]

I have seen this issue with many different vehicles including my 2000 996. I usually keep the clutch depressed and shift into third gear then back into first. A car buff a long time ago clued me into this "trick". Other PCA members talk about Porsche's transmissions are designed to down shift, so you could try at the stop light going fromm 2nd to 1st to see if this helps out.

I do not think this is a serious issue.

-Tom