My EVO handles better than my 996

[ivanuf]

I just purchased a used 1999 996 Carrera C2 Triptonic with 69,000 miles on the clock. Six months ago I also purchased a 2003 Lancer EVO VIII. I think something is wrong with the suspension of the 996 and since this is my first Porsche I need some help with the 996 suspension. The roads around here are rough and uneven to say the least and I am used to sport cars with firm ride. The EVO has a much stiffer ride than the 996, the problem with the suspension of the 996 is that it feels loose and the steering feels too vague for my taste. Around town and at highway speeds up to 80 mph the car is perfect. At high speeds the 996 feels like a jet ski "floaty" with a steering feel too soft and not as precise as the EVO's go-car steering response. In straight line the handling is ok but when you approach a bumpy highway turn at 100+ it gets really scarry and not in control. So far I have done the following trying to get a more solid ride. I have new tires and checked the wheels to be straight. I replaced the front shocks top mounts, bearings and tie rod ends. When installing these parts I performed an inspections of the lower and upper arm bushings and shocks and I see no sign of damage bushings or leaks from the strunts and everything looks fine. I had the car aligned as per Porsche specs but with a little more camber. The car has improved but the EVO feels more planted at high speeds. Is this the way a Porsche handles because of the rear engine or is there something I need to fix. I am new with rear-engine car and any help will be appreciated.

Edited July 12, 2004 by ivanuf

[Costa]

I have new tires and checked the wheels to be straight. I replaced the front shocks top mounts, bearings and tie rod ends. When installing these parts I performed an inspections of the lower and upper arm bushings and shocks and I see no sign of damage bushings or leaks from the strunts and everything looks fine. I had the car aligned as per Porsche specs but with a little more camber.

At 69,000 Miles you may also want to check the condition of the dampers - they could be on their way out??

Don't confuse a stiff ride with good suspension...You will find in general that many Japanese cars cars tend to be set up with hard suspension settings which tend to produce a harsh ride especially on bumpy roads, where you tend to get less traction due to bouncing over irregularities in the road surface.

What type of suspension is on the C2 - standard, 030/ROW 030 etc etc?

[Keyvan]

You need to get ROW030.

[ivanuf]

The car has the standard suspension, but still I find hard to belive that you will need to upgrade the stock Porsche suspension to get a level of performance that is standard on an EVO for much less money. I think Porsche is the benchmark not the other way around.

Edited July 11, 2004 by ivanuf

[LVDell]

Problem may be if you have the US spec version of the 996 which IS NOT the true settings that the car has rolled off the assembly line in Germany for the Germans, etc.

So....first question to ask is if your car is US spec ride height.

[ivanuf]

The car has US standard suspension. Puerto Rico is regulated by US Federal laws and requirements.

[LVDell]

There's your answer :)

[ivanuf]

So this "floaty" feeling is normal on a 996 and to improve the handeling I will need to purchase ROW 030 and align the vehicle as per Specs for that setup? The Evo does not compare with a Porsche on prestige but if you see one in your tail let me assure you he can keep up with you and with a few mods will pass you by with a car that cost 1/4 of the Porsche price.

Edited July 12, 2004 by ivanuf

[LVDell]

No....this is abnormal. Normal would be RoW suspension or even better would be the X74 or PSS9 set-up. And as for an evo keeping up, that is all perception and just not true (it's Pcar equivalent is the 986). Not gonna happen though.

Remember, the 996 is not in its "modded" state when you purchase it, the evo is. If that would be the case then you would see the evo taking the 996 to school on track events, etc. That you will not see either. Also, you can't compare cost to equate with performance numbers (that is not a valid argument). This topic has been beat to death over on rennlist and there are some pretty good postings regarding the "ricer" car vs. a Pcar (far to many people come in with the argument you just made and then learn some valuable info as to why what they think is totally off base). You should check them out (if interested).

As well, some great threads on the different suspension choices. By the way, one of the first things people do to the 996 (if the want to track it, etc.) is suspension upgrades.

And most importantly, just about anybody can get into an evo, sti, etc., but it takes much more to belong to the Pcar community and then you really see where the passion lies.

[LVDell]

ps. I am not referring to the evo VIII as a ricer car (just so you know and don't getting miffed at me). However, even though the evo is a "classily" done modded car with impressive numbers it is one you can buy off a showroom that has has another similar to it (for example, the base model lancer ES for $13K vs. $29K for the EVO). That is not something you will see in a Pcar dealer.

[ivanuf]

I do not want to get to far off the original question about the steering feel of a stock 996. I just need some reassurance that the steering feel I am experiencing "floaty" is the way the car typically handles with stock suspension and that I just need to get used to it. I do not plan to track the 996 that is what the EVO is for I just want feedback from other owners from their 996 driving experience at speeds above 100 mph and if what I am experiencing is normal I will like to know how to improve the steering response and suspension for those few times I decide to floor it down the highway. I do not really mean to make an argument about witch is better, I have both and know that a Porsche is on a class of it's own I just expected the car to feel rock solid and precise at high speeds and right now it is not.

Edited July 12, 2004 by ivanuf

[LVDell]

If you want to "feel" what you are after and have the suspension that was made then I suggest the RoW setup (it is stock). For the more aggressive suspension (adjustable and great for track) then the Pss9 set-up. Either way, you can't go wrong. The US spec suspension is junk though which is what you feel (very "floaty").

Happy Motoring! :cheers:

[MikeA]

I too have experienced the "floaty" feel on my 2004 C2 Cab. Quite frankly my Boxster S felt more planted on high speed curves than my 996 with standard US suspension. My question to you all is what exactly is replaced when you purchase the ROW 030 set up. I know it consists of springs and shocks but what else? What can one expect to pay for the upgrade in parts and installation? I've had my 996 now for nearly three months and am ready to get serious about suspension upgrade.

Thanks all

Mike

[Hroussard]

I have a 1999 C2 which has the 030 option ( different suspension - close to the European / ROW I believe) and, coming from a Nissan 300 ZX TT with switchable shock settings ( touring / sport) I also found and still find, that the steering of my C2 is loose, too light and floaty. I am trying to live with it ( at least for the time being) because I do not want to upset or get rid of a handling that has been designed based on a variety of conditions by folks that, I hope, have a much better idea on what the car should feel and behave as I have. Having said that, I am eagerly reading about the folks on this and other sites and their experiences. In the end I may upgrade to some springs that lower the front a bit more than the back, to give a more "hunkered-down" feeling with some better control on the rebound and with some adjustable shocks so I can get it calibrated or changed on the car rather than having to take these things off again and again. My concern with shorter springs and stiffer chocks is the fact that it may handle too stifly and become uncomfortable or somewhat marginal in handling . In the end I want to have a car that I like to drive all through the week on all kinds of roads.

Now just to make matters worse, yesterday I had the opportunity to drive a Ferrari 355 Spider ( 1999) with 8k miles on the clock. The is the last year 355 Spider ( was replace by the 360 one year later I believe). I drove this yellow convertible from San Mateo(Ca) on the Skyline road to Saratoga, about 40 miles of sheer rush. Folks that know this road will tell you its a road which separates the boys from the men, lots and short sweeping bends with little or no view or visibility in front of you good for speeds up to about 120 miles, generally in 2-3-4 gear up to 8,200 revs ( yes 8200 revs!! ), a screaming 8 cylinder Ferrari 5 valve engine, superb gearing and massive brakes and , this model being the last year , it is part of the limited edition run of 100 units , they all have a a quick steering upgrade and NO body roll whatsoever. I must say that the handling of this Spider convertible is about 2 generations better than the Porsche, the brakes are one generation better than the Porsche. Now if I could get my Porsche to handle like THAT, I would have it done tomorrow morning.

HarryR 1999 C2

[LVDell]

The answer appears to be the adjustable PSS9 set up with f/r sways and a brake upgrade and quite sure at that point you will feel that handling similar to the 355. About 40mm lower in front and 30mm lower in rear.

[Costa]

PSS9 or even X74 is the go.

The US specified suspension is fitted to the US cars to pass ride height regulations and not entirely for performance as you may have noticed.

I have the X74 suspension fitted to my C2 and my it makes the car totally different to stock. No floatiness etc hey even my Grandma could drive the car at 250+Km/h :D

[ivanuf]

What are the recomended alingment specs for a PSS9? I did a search and I can only find the ROW 030 alignment.

[CoreyNJ]

To get back on topic.

The 99' 996 models were known for the "floaty" front-end with the standard US suspension. This was corrected in the US models to some extent in 2002 and newer models.

Porsche marketing spec'd the US standard suspension to be lighter and higher than the "ROW" or european suspension due to percieved typical US buyer preferences for a 70k+ sports car.

This is why Porsche offers 2 additional suspension options in the US, the 030(sport suspension,at a very small cost when ordered with the car and at the same height as the standard suspension) and the x74(GT-3 suspension for track use, though some use it on the street).

As to why your EVO actually handles better, I would actually doubt it, even the stock 996 suspension can out corner most sports sedans, though it may not feel the way you expect a sports car to feel. My old boxster(almost no body roll) seemed to handle better than my Carrera, but I can take turns at a much higher speed in my Carrera even though it appears to have more roll.

On the track however, the stiffer suspension(i.e. 030 or X74) provides more predictability and in the case of the ROW 030 and the X74, increased downforce by changing the cars height and angle dynamics.

I would have a porsche dealer or someone familiar with the year of your car drive it to determine if you have excessive floating or is it the norm for that year. If you wish to completly remove the "float" and would like a more sporty suspension, then I would recommend the 030, in european height(ROW) if clearance is not an issue(US buyers apparently do not want to scrape their cars).

If you plan on tracking the car, you should get the x74 suspension installed or the aftermarket PSS9(height and rate adjustable suspension) or anyone with a "sporty" 996 will wipe the floor with you.

Another way of looking at it, is from the 997 perspective...

The 997 is no sloucher 0-60 in less than 5 sec, top speed around 180, but it does not have the sport suspension std, it's setup for cruzin....

The 997S is only 3mph faster on the top and .2-.3 sec faster 0-60, but can run the "ring" in much faster times because it offers either an active "sport" suspension or a no-cost track sport suspension.

Same car, different trim level and made for a different audience.

[ivanuf]

Thanks a lot guys I feel I have answers to my concerns and that I can plan for future upgrades with the help of your knowledge and experience. Is good to know that there a place where other enthusiasts and details freaks can talk and release our mental Porsche obsession.

[Hroussard]

My 1999 C2 has the 030 suspension and that's the one I think is still light, floaty and does not track well. I suspect it's close to the ROW 030 suspension. I am riding on the 18 inch Porsche 10 spoke Sport rims ( very nice thank you) with Conti's. I believe they are BBS OEM's but I am not sure.

I have a question around the rims. I have some curb rash on the rear rims. What is the best process. As the rim consist of 2 parts would it be cheaper, easier, better to buy the part that has the rash ( the actual rim that holds the tire) new ,and keep the inner part of the wheel (the part that is the spokes and the holes etc to attach to the car) or forget about that option? Any idea where one can buy those separately and what they would cost? I have 8 1/2 in the front and 10 inch in the back.

HarryR