convertible top stuck at half way

[dezpimpdada]

02 boxster S

hi all i am having proble closing my top and need some help here. as i try to close the top today i noticed grinding/clicking noise coming from rear driver side. it was closing a bit slower than usual. as it came all the way up the grinding continues so i tried to reverse the back down to listen more( stupid me) it then moves even slower but steadily. as i attempt to bring it back up again....nothing happens. back down it moves but forward to upright position, no more motor grinding or any movement at all. so it is now stuck at half way. i found in the manual the steps to bring the top down however it doesn't show you how to bring it up manually!.........is there a way to do it?

secondly, is this something that can by DIY or i should bring it to a porsche guy? how much it is if i need to replace the top motor or transmission?

thanks all

Paul

[1schoir]

02 boxster S

hi all i am having proble closing my top and need some help here. as i try to close the top today i noticed grinding/clicking noise coming from rear driver side. it was closing a bit slower than usual. as it came all the way up the grinding continues so i tried to reverse the back down to listen more( stupid me) it then moves even slower but steadily. as i attempt to bring it back up again....nothing happens. back down it moves but forward to upright position, no more motor grinding or any movement at all. so it is now stuck at half way. i found in the manual the steps to bring the top down however it doesn't show you how to bring it up manually!.........is there a way to do it?

secondly, is this something that can by DIY or i should bring it to a porsche guy? how much it is if i need to replace the top motor or transmission?

thanks all

Paul

Paul:

If your top is open halfway, you can bring it up manually and lock it in place with the latch, but you have to disconnect the pushrods to do so.

There are four pushrods: two that operate on the convertible canvas top, and two that operate on the clamshell.

The ones that operate on the canvas top have white (red if original, old version part) plastic ball cups that are pressed onto a steel ball on one side of the V-lever.

The ones that operate on the clamshell look like a black hydraulic cylinder and they are pressed onto a steel ball on the the other side of each V-lever.

They can be easily pried off, but ONLY IF THEY ARE NOT UNDER PRESSURE. If they are under pressure, it takes a great deal of force to pry them off. There are also ways to work around getting them off if that proves too difficult.

The only drawback, is that once you have the four pushrods disconnected, there is nothing to hold the clamshell down tight. So, it might bounce up a little if you hit a bump. To avoid that, you can reconnect the two black hydraulic pushrods to the clamshell arms, but that will require you to rotate the transmissions so that the V-levers are in the correct position and then press the two pushrod caps back onto the steel balls-- very, very difficult to do.

A dealer gets anywhere from $1500 to 2500 to replace the transmissions with the newer version transmissions. They like to replace the entire system, including the cables while they are at it.

You can pick up used "B" version on eBay for around $500 a pair.

It's unlikely that your motor is bad, that is not a very common cause of failure.

Don't go replacing the transmissions (or anything else for that matter) until you diagnose the cause further.

Regards, Maurice.

[dezpimpdada]

02 boxster S

hi all i am having proble closing my top and need some help here. as i try to close the top today i noticed grinding/clicking noise coming from rear driver side. it was closing a bit slower than usual. as it came all the way up the grinding continues so i tried to reverse the back down to listen more( stupid me) it then moves even slower but steadily. as i attempt to bring it back up again....nothing happens. back down it moves but forward to upright position, no more motor grinding or any movement at all. so it is now stuck at half way. i found in the manual the steps to bring the top down however it doesn't show you how to bring it up manually!.........is there a way to do it?

secondly, is this something that can by DIY or i should bring it to a porsche guy? how much it is if i need to replace the top motor or transmission?

thanks all

Paul

Paul:

If your top is open halfway, you can bring it up manually and lock it in place with the latch, but you have to disconnect the pushrods to do so.

There are four pushrods: two that operate on the convertible canvas top, and two that operate on the clamshell.

The ones that operate on the canvas top have white (red if original, old version part) plastic ball cups that are pressed onto a steel ball on one side of the V-lever.

The ones that operate on the clamshell look like a black hydraulic cylinder and they are pressed onto a steel ball on the the other side of each V-lever.

They can be easily pried off, but ONLY IF THEY ARE NOT UNDER PRESSURE. If they are under pressure, it takes a great deal of force to pry them off. There are also ways to work around getting them off if that proves too difficult.

The only drawback, is that once you have the four pushrods disconnected, there is nothing to hold the clamshell down tight. So, it might bounce up a little if you hit a bump. To avoid that, you can reconnect the two black hydraulic pushrods to the clamshell arms, but that will require you to rotate the transmissions so that the V-levers are in the correct position and then press the two pushrod caps back onto the steel balls-- very, very difficult to do.

A dealer gets anywhere from $1500 to 2500 to replace the transmissions with the newer version transmissions. They like to replace the entire system, including the cables while they are at it.

You can pick up used "B" version on eBay for around $500 a pair.

It's unlikely that your motor is bad, that is not a very common cause of failure.

Don't go replacing the transmissions (or anything else for that matter) until you diagnose the cause further.

Regards, Maurice.

thanks Maurice, i will try to get that done tm morning.

by the way, if the rods are under pressure how do i get them off just in case when i need to do so.

updates on the problem. as i try to close the top i hear a single click from the driver rear, it seems like the motor is trying to engage but nothing is moving, however it still moves backward. does this seem like a transmission problem to you?

[dezpimpdada]

as i look under the tp i noticed that the RED cap type ball joint which according to my reading here is the old type, interesting enough i had the top replaced at one point under warranty however they didn't update the hardware on it. .......this was done in las vegas at the only dealership. since my car is a 02 it should have come with the updated hardware but not sure why i see the old ones, unless the dealership had used old stock to replace my top at the time.

[1schoir]

thanks Maurice, i will try to get that done tm morning.

by the way, if the rods are under pressure how do i get them off just in case when i need to do so.

updates on the problem. as i try to close the top i hear a single click from the driver rear, it seems like the motor is trying to engage but nothing is moving, however it still moves backward. does this seem like a transmission problem to you?

Paul:

The pushrods are under pressure at certain points in the travel of the top and of the clamshell. The rear ones (black hydraulic pushrods) are much more difficult, especially when the clamshell is in the full down position.

For the front pushrods (with the red cups on them), if you can't reach under there or get enough leverage to pop them off, you can unscrew the 10mm bolt (with the fat washer) that's about in the middle of the pushrod and the canvas part of your top can then move freely. MAKE SURE THAT YOU MARK the spot where the two parts of that pushrod meet so that you can duplicate the overall length of the pushrod when you have everything squared away. Once you unscrew the bolt, the pushrod will come apart in two pieces. One piece will be dangling on the V-lever. The other piece will be the red plastic cup still hanging on the steel ball. You can then pop off the red plastic cup by moving the top back and forth so that you can get the best access.

Also, be careful if you rotate the V-levers with the half pushrod now hanging on it because it's easy to gouge/rip/tear the foam drain tray liner when it's dangling.

The rear pushrods (black hydraulic) are more difficult because they are under more pressure, especially in certain positions of travel of the V-lever.

If you can't lever them off, you can try to undo the thin clip that holds one end of the pushrod onto the clamshell arm. If you can't reach that one, you can unscrew the part of the steel ball that goes through the other end of the V-lever by using a THIN 14mm open end wrench on the nut (which is on the opposite, [outboard] side of the V-lever). It's tough to reach that nut, and it's tedious because you can only get a few millimeters of rotation at a time, but it can be done.

A couple of questions:

What position is your clamshell in now?

Does the top move at all when you press the switch?

Does the clamshell move? Does the clamshell move evenly on both sides or is it lopsided?

It's too early to diagnose the transmission(s). It may just be the classic too short inner (speedometer type) cable syndrome. If the inner cable is too short, the electric motor will not be able to turn the transmission on that side. The inner cable could also be fraying or unraveling somewhere in the middle of the outer sheath. Do a search on here an you'll find plenty of explanations about the stretching of the outer sheath, which results in the "retracting" of the inner cable.

If you are mechanically inclined, it's pretty easy to repair or replace the cables or to replace the transmissions.

Regards, Maurice.

[dezpimpdada]

thanks Maurice, i will try to get that done tm morning.

by the way, if the rods are under pressure how do i get them off just in case when i need to do so.

updates on the problem. as i try to close the top i hear a single click from the driver rear, it seems like the motor is trying to engage but nothing is moving, however it still moves backward. does this seem like a transmission problem to you?

Paul:

The pushrods are under pressure at certain points in the travel of the top and of the clamshell. The rear ones (black hydraulic pushrods) are much more difficult, especially when the clamshell is in the full down position.

For the front pushrods (with the red cups on them), if you can't reach under there or get enough leverage to pop them off, you can unscrew the 10mm bolt (with the fat washer) that's about in the middle of the pushrod and the canvas part of your top can then move freely. MAKE SURE THAT YOU MARK the spot where the two parts of that pushrod meet so that you can duplicate the overall length of the pushrod when you have everything squared away. Once you unscrew the bolt, the pushrod will come apart in two pieces. One piece will be dangling on the V-lever. The other piece will be the red plastic cup still hanging on the steel ball. You can then pop off the red plastic cup by moving the top back and forth so that you can get the best access.

Also, be careful if you rotate the V-levers with the half pushrod now hanging on it because it's easy to gouge/rip/tear the foam drain tray liner when it's dangling.

The rear pushrods (black hydraulic) are more difficult because they are under more pressure, especially in certain positions of travel of the V-lever.

If you can't lever them off, you can try to undo the thin clip that holds one end of the pushrod onto the clamshell arm. If you can't reach that one, you can unscrew the part of the steel ball that goes through the other end of the V-lever by using a THIN 14mm open end wrench on the nut (which is on the opposite, [outboard] side of the V-lever). It's tough to reach that nut, and it's tedious because you can only get a few millimeters of rotation at a time, but it can be done.

A couple of questions:

What position is your clamshell in now?

Does the top move at all when you press the switch?

Does the clamshell move? Does the clamshell move evenly on both sides or is it lopsided?

It's too early to diagnose the transmission(s). It may just be the classic too short inner (speedometer type) cable syndrome. If the inner cable is too short, the electric motor will not be able to turn the transmission on that side. The inner cable could also be fraying or unraveling somewhere in the middle of the outer sheath. Do a search on here an you'll find plenty of explanations about the stretching of the outer sheath, which results in the "retracting" of the inner cable.

If you are mechanically inclined, it's pretty easy to repair or replace the cables or to replace the transmissions.

Regards, Maurice.

great info Maurice, with your suggestion and some researchs here i was able to remove both rods. i removed the clam shell ones by removing the clips which took about few secs on each side, broke the clips but oh well those were the last of my concerns. i was able to access the red rods thru the openings in the back with clam shell lifted, popping them off were pretty simple i used a y- shape nail remover which fits prefectly under the tight space and popped them off easily.

next i went to the cables by removing both clips that hold down the cables and pulled them out to inspect the length of them, left side about 3/4 to one inch long but the right side is about 50% more in length then compared to the left side. i gave both a nice tuck left side feels tight but right side immediately came loose and i was able to pull and insert it back and forth. so at this time i am sure that i have a bad cable on the passenger side. now, i haven't tested the motor to see if it will move forward or rotate with all rods removed. i will do that next

Maurice,

clamshell was in full upright position, didn't seem to be tilted.

top was stuck before i pop loose the rods, it was moving back but not forward. when i tried to bring it fw it makes a single clicking noise, seems to me the motor is trying to engage but the gears are stuck almost similar to a bad starter where it makes a click but no rotation.

i called the dealership to ask for the cable and i was told that there is only one type of cable now i have read here that since they updated the system many parts also have been updated is there a part number for me the reference to when i order the cable? also since i have the older (red) rods would it be a good idea for me to update them as well? as long as they would fit directly without any mods. i saw some listings on ebay from a european seller is this the guy to buy from??

thanks

[1schoir]

great info Maurice, with your suggestion and some researchs here i was able to remove both rods. i removed the clam shell ones by removing the clips which took about few secs on each side, broke the clips but oh well those were the last of my concerns. i was able to access the red rods thru the openings in the back with clam shell lifted, popping them off were pretty simple i used a y- shape nail remover which fits prefectly under the tight space and popped them off easily.

next i went to the cables by removing both clips that hold down the cables and pulled them out to inspect the length of them, left side about 3/4 to one inch long but the right side is about 50% more in length then compared to the left side. i gave both a nice tuck left side feels tight but right side immediately came loose and i was able to pull and insert it back and forth. so at this time i am sure that i have a bad cable on the passenger side. now, i haven't tested the motor to see if it will move forward or rotate with all rods removed. i will do that next

Maurice,

clamshell was in full upright position, didn't seem to be tilted.

top was stuck before i pop loose the rods, it was moving back but not forward. when i tried to bring it fw it makes a single clicking noise, seems to me the motor is trying to engage but the gears are stuck almost similar to a bad starter where it makes a click but no rotation.

i called the dealership to ask for the cable and i was told that there is only one type of cable now i have read here that since they updated the system many parts also have been updated is there a part number for me the reference to when i order the cable? also since i have the older (red) rods would it be a good idea for me to update them as well? as long as they would fit directly without any mods. i saw some listings on ebay from a european seller is this the guy to buy from??

thanks

Paul:

It certainly looks like you have found the root of the problem with that broken cable. That explains the loud clicking noise also.

It's been a while since I looked at the part numbers for the cables, but IIRC, at some point Porsche did switch over to only one cable type, not the two types that existed for a while. If you look for a post by Tool Pants, he explained in detail the part numbers for the cables and how to install the cable if you have to separate the end of the cable from the part that engages the worm gear in the transmission. If you can't find the post, let me know and I'll look for it.

Since you are going to replace those two little clips that hold one end of the hydraulic pushrod onto the clamshell arm, be sure to check the small tubular plastic inserts where that end of the pushrod goes through the clamshell arm. They wear away, and new ones make a world of difference in smoothing out the operation of the clamshell.

Again, now that your front pushrods are off and dangling, BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN YOU OPERATE THE V-LEVERS WITH THE SWITCH. If you tear the foam liner by accident, you will be in for a world of hurt if water gets in through the tears and eventually fries the central alarm control unit located under the driver's seat.

I would definitely recommend replacing the red plastic ball cups, which you can then keep as spares in case of an emergency.

I am sending you a PM for the best way to get replacement ball cups.

When you get everything back together, you will probably have to re-synch the top, but we can cross that bridge when you get to it.

Regards, Maurice.

[dezpimpdada]

ohh shoot i have tried to press the switch a few times to test the motor just to make sure that its still in working order, hopefully that didn't do any damage to the form. i will check immediatly tonight.

i have already ordered the clips and the cable. i guess i will go pick up the tubular inserts too as u suggeted. thanks Maurice for all the suggetions. i will update my progress once i got the parts and have put everything back together.