01s 6 speed transmission issue

[csu15919]

ok so, my transmission is acting really weird...and it's really hard to explain...but i'll try. alright, so it seems like it's stuck in gear. naturally, i assumed a cable broke, so i took the console apart and lifted up the back end. i took the cables off the transmission and began moving them. with the cables released, the shifter moves in all directions just like it's supposed to (not sure if that's considered a definitive cable diagnostic, but it seems right). now here's the weird part...

if i push the shifter foreward (with cables attached to tranny), into the 1st or 3rd gear/gate, there's no side-side movement....which is how it's supposed to be.

if i move the shifter into neutral (with cables attached to tranny), it will only move to the right....when pulled to the left, it feels like it's jammed (pulling it into the reverse direction).

if i move the shifter down (with cables attached to tranny), into the 2nd or 4th gear/gate, the shifter will now move to the left...but not the right.

i'm really worried the problem is the tranny itself. i removed the cables from the transmission after the above "test," and i was have the same situation with the levers on the transmission (that the cables attach to). i've seen/or heard of a manual trans breaking and getting stuck in a gear. i know that generally, you'll lose either positive or negative gears. i guess i should mention that recently, i've been having a few issues with 2nd gear. i believe the synchro was going bad...it would grind SOMETIMES when i tried to put it in 2nd.

anyone have any ideas on more things to try before i go to the dealer????

[csu15919]

i just messed with it some more, and i finally got it out of gear. i had to go underneath, and pull the front-back lever (lever on the tranny that the cable attaches to), while also pulling on the side-side lever; and the tranny popped out of gear and will now go into neutral. i can now move the shifter to all gears except 5th & 6th. also, when i start the car, and put it in 1st gear it gets stuck again (atleast i know the trick to put it back in neutral). i'm still not sure if it's a cable or tranny issue though...any ideas???

[Loren]

Did you check to see if any of the rear shifter arms (on the transmission) are bent? This is the most common problem.

[csu15919]

Did you check to see if any of the rear shifter arms (on the transmission) are bent? This is the most common problem.

actually, the side-side (small arm) appears to be bent outwards a little (bent towards the passenger side wheel). i'll try prying it/pushing it back in and see what happens.

[csu15919]

alright, i pushed the small lever back even, and i'm still getting the same problem. here's a more thorough description of the problem (last 2 post were kind of scrambled):

-put shifter/tranny into reverse and it works normally

-put shifter/tranny into 1st or 2nd, the car will be in gear but stay in that gear. the shifter will not stay in the gate (moves to the right and back up to neutral). in order to get out of those gears, i have to move the shifter back down the path it came...(back into that gear, then slide to the left, then back up to neutral)

-put shifter/tranny into 3rd and 4th and it works normally

-cannot put shifter or tranny into 5th or 6th. it will slide over (once i'm in neutral), but will not go up or down into either gate.

Edited October 6, 2008 by csu15919

[Loren]

Still sounds bent.

[markdav]

Seem related to a thread I was driving.

I still have this issue. Mine is stuck 5th and may still be a bent arm.

Loren - do you have a couple of photos of the tranny at various angles to show what a straight arm looks like? Hard to tell from from the picture in the attached thread. Esp the angle of the cable holder which may too be bent.

One other thing - in the forum's experience, which arm most likely to get bent?

thanks in advance.

Mark

[Loren]

Seem related to a thread I was driving.

I still have this issue. Mine is stuck 5th and may still be a bent arm.

Loren - do you have a couple of photos of the tranny at various angles to show what a straight arm looks like? Hard to tell from from the picture in the attached thread. Esp the angle of the cable holder which may too be bent.

One other thing - in the forum's experience, which arm most likely to get bent?

thanks in advance.

Mark

Sorry, I don't have any Boxster transmission photos. Perhaps Tool Pants does...

[csu15919]

Still sounds bent.

i've gone back and tried to straighten the arm more, but it still doesn't seem to be working. i also removed the cables from both transmission arms, and attempted to engage every gear (except reverse) manually. i ended up getting the same results... when i engaged 1st and 2nd gear (using the front-back arm), the side-side arm would "lock" in one direction, but still be able to move in the other. it would also stick in both of those gears...meaning when i push the front-back arm into the center (neutral), i was still only able to move the side-side arm in one direction, instead of both (basically, the same way it acted with 1st & 2nd engaged). i would have to pull the side-side arm in the direction it couldn't move, while pulling back on the front-back arm, then pushing the front-back arm back into neutral (now the side-side arm would move both ways). when i engaged 3rd and 4th, the side-side arm would "lock" in both directions (which is how it's supposed to work). i was not able to engage 5th and 6th gear AT ALL...the front-back arm would not go into either of those gears. i'm starting to think the problem is inside the transmission.

loren...i'm mechanically inclined (work on cars for year, have an A&P license, and was a diesel mechanic for 4yrs), would you suggest taking it apart, and seeing what's going on inside??? i figure i can't make it any worse than it already is. i was considering taking the rear casing off (with bell-housing still attached to the motor) just to SEE if there's anything visibly wrong. maybe snap a few pics, and a video of what the problem is...

Edited October 7, 2008 by csu15919

[csu15919]

alright, so i went ahead and removed the gearbox cover and found a few interesting issues: (pics will be included momentarily)

- the side-side shift rod is supposed to sit in a "socket" well, it was resting outside of the socket (see pic)

- when i pulled off the cover, the input shaft needle roller bearing was sitting in the bottom of the cover. the manual says that this bearing should be pressed in...so i'm assuming it worked it's way out...maybe go over-heated when i had my last motor issue. (see pic)

- this is the only part i'm not sure off...there was a roll pin sitting on the "trash magnet" in the bottom of the tranny. i'm trying to figure out what it fell out of.

i'd like to get a few suggestions on putting the cover back on (should i replace anything else...sync rings, etc.). everything else actually looks good.

[csu15919]

FINALLY FIGURED OUT WHAT HAPPENED...sorry if this is too long (will be assembling tomorrow)!

alright, so i started picking up all of the loose pieces and figured out what happend.

the roll pin i found on the "trash magnet" fell out of the 3rd/4th gear shift rod/fork (not sure why that happened...maybe excessive heat from when my old engine broke a few valves, and made my exhaust glow cherry red). this caused the shift rod/fork to spin (a little less than 45 degrees) causing the front-back/side-side shift rod to become misaligned.

the front-back/side-side shift rod sits inside of a recess (that's rotated by the side/side shift lever). when the rod became misaligned, it came out of the recess (reason why i couldn't reach 5/6th gear...didn't have proper travel). it also has four little bearings on the end that goes into the recess...2 of those also fell off and were on the side of the trash magnet).

the bearing that i found in the back of the transmission, was not the needle bearing (shop manual wasn't specific enough for the 6-speed tranny...had to use autoatlanta.com's exploded parts diagrams), it's called a cylindrical-roller bearing.

it was an absolute PAIN to get the shift rods out of the transmission (needed to remove to replace the 4 small bearings) with all of the gears attached. there's a plate that all of the shift rods "ride" on, and it's held on with 2 T40 bolts. the bottom bolt...easy...the top bolt is almost completely blocked by the 3rd/4th gear shift fork...had to use an offset screwdriver (with t40 bit in it).

basically, i'm going to replace ALL roll pins, 4 small bearings on shift rod, and have a tech at the dealer inspect the rod and make sure it's still "true."

description of pics:

1 - trash magnet with roll pin stuck to it

2 - 1 of 4 small bearings that go onto the shift rod

3 - kinda bad shot of what all rods looked like with cover removed

4 - a description using an exploded parts view of all shift rods

Edited October 8, 2008 by csu15919

[markdav]

Excellent!

Gives me confidence to have a go. How hard is it to get the cover off?

Doesn't "seem" like there is much to it.

Also, where do you get your parts from? I heard that nothing inside the gearbox was replacable / servicable.

Thanks for the pictures. Please post more if you have them.

[Loren]

Excellent!

Gives me confidence to have a go. How hard is it to get the cover off?

Doesn't "seem" like there is much to it.

Also, where do you get your parts from? I heard that nothing inside the gearbox was replacable / servicable.

Thanks for the pictures. Please post more if you have them.

Porsche made internal parts for the gearboxes available two or three years ago.

[csu15919]

Excellent!

Gives me confidence to have a go. How hard is it to get the cover off?

Doesn't "seem" like there is much to it.

Also, where do you get your parts from? I heard that nothing inside the gearbox was replacable / servicable.

Thanks for the pictures. Please post more if you have them.

sorry i took so long to respond...i had a busy weekend. loren is right, the dealer now carries most of the parts (i purchased 6 new "coil pins" for 33 cent a piece). hopefully, your problem is just as simple as mine, and you don't have to remove any of the gears. if you have to remove any of them, that's a different story. the gears are pressed on with some SERIOUS force. all shift forks/rods remove easy though. just knock "coil pins" out, and slide the rods out of the forks. the forks will then just drop off of the gear sets (they literally just ride on the gear sets). i'll post of some more pictures when i get back home.

the cover wasn't hard to remove...i'm having an issue putting it back on though. it's kind of difficult to keep the main shift rod still so that the case goes back on. if you have the 5-speed tranny, i think it goes on a little different (actually, looks easier per the service manual). the main shift rod in the 6-speed kind of "floats" because it doesn't bolt to a shift fork. it also has a bearing that the "front-back" shift arm is supposed to rest in, and it's almost impossible to get it in place (you can't see it). once i figure out the trick to getting it back on, i'll let you know if everything worked out.

[TypeS]

Having diagnosed more than a few tranny issues as a used car lot mechanic of several years, one concern I'd have based on your motor heat likely causing the problem originally would be a warping of the bell housing. I had a couple of instances where after extreme motor heat the bell housing caused internal transmission failures due to uneven heat stress on the bell housing casting causing the input shaft to deal with the misalignment. On a couple of occasions this lead to input shaft bearing failure which reared its ugly head by the tranny either getting stuck or popping out of gear. So I'd recommend you carefully examine the casting for any cracks or distortions and put a straight edge to the tranny side. Not having looked at the schematic but given your 2nd gear synchro issue you might want to use a reputable salvage source to replace from the motor back.

[csu15919]

Having diagnosed more than a few tranny issues as a used car lot mechanic of several years, one concern I'd have based on your motor heat likely causing the problem originally would be a warping of the bell housing. I had a couple of instances where after extreme motor heat the bell housing caused internal transmission failures due to uneven heat stress on the bell housing casting causing the input shaft to deal with the misalignment. On a couple of occasions this lead to input shaft bearing failure which reared its ugly head by the tranny either getting stuck or popping out of gear. So I'd recommend you carefully examine the casting for any cracks or distortions and put a straight edge to the tranny side. Not having looked at the schematic but given your 2nd gear synchro issue you might want to use a reputable salvage source to replace from the motor back.

i never really thought about that. i started doing a little more research on transmission roll pin failure, and it seems to be fairly common with "hard driving" (mostly on nissan, mitsubishi, and GM). most people shear them, instead of them just falling out. a lot of it comes from driving the car really hard...which is something i've been doing a lot of lately (ever since i got my new engine, and installed a few goodies). i don't think the 2nd gear synchro was going bad...it looked really good. i'm assuming it had more to do with that one shift fork/rod begining to come loose, and me not being able to properly engage 2nd gear. i'll know for sure once i get it all back together. it didn't grind while in 2nd, it would as i tried to engage 2nd. if the synchro is bad...i'll probably just ride it until it's completely dead, then go for a full rebuild. thanks a lot for the advice though!