NOISE from engine, clutch, or transmission

[racerken]

I am totally bummed.

I have an 04 996 with 36k miles.

This evening while driving home the car started making clatter noises (so loud that my kids came out to check it out). The noise sounds like a piece of loud steel banging against some case (aluminum?) that corresponds with engine rpm. No smoke, oil if fine, no leaks, no correlation with clutch in/out.

Should I call to have this towed to the dealer?

Should I drive it 3 miles to the dealer?

Still under lease.

Thanks,

Ken

[Loren]

I think you should have it towed to the shop.

[racerken]

Getting towed now.

warranty expired 5 months ago.

[racerken]

The dealer thinks its the intermediate shaft and that this is a known problem. The last time they encountered this problem, Porsche paid for the parts but not the labor.

This does not sound good.

[racerken]

Fred Lavery, a dealer in Birmingham Michigan requested that I pre-approve 15 hours of labor so they can remove the transmission in an effort to troubleshoot the problem.

This equates to $ 1,950.

wife is pulling the 'i told you so...' routine.

daughter is demanding that I buy a hybrid to save the world.

son wants me to get the panamera.

Has anyone ever had success in dealing with Porsche financial to plead extra warranty time?

[RotorHead]

Fred Lavery, a dealer in Birmingham Michigan requested that I pre-approve 15 hours of labor so they can remove the transmission in an effort to troubleshoot the problem.

This equates to $ 1,950.

wife is pulling the 'i told you so...' routine.

daughter is demanding that I buy a hybrid to save the world.

son wants me to get the panamera.

Has anyone ever had success in dealing with Porsche financial to plead extra warranty time?

I'm so sick of hearing about engine problems. I think a class-action suit is in order!

Rotor

[SVTHorsnake]

I've never seen a lease outlive a warranty... is this normal or something specific to your situation?

[racerken]

I've never seen a lease outlive a warranty... is this normal or something specific to your situation?

Just so you know, I did have the Rear Main Seal replaced under warranty at about 25k miles. I am sure there is a problem with powertrain because I don't race the car, it is driven everyday at grandmother speeds because the town I live in tickets at 3+ mph over indicated.

My original lease was 48 months which expired april 2008. Instead of purchasing a new car, I thought I'd request an extension which Porsche Financial Services responded with a month-to-month lease. Silly me, I did not check to see if the warranty was also extended.

As soon as they complete the inspection or discovery exercise I'll know the total cost. I intend on writing a letter to David Pryor, VP, marketing of PCNA, since he keeps sending me letters about the Panamera and also about how they value their customers. Well, this is my second Porsche back-to-back. If they screw me, I'm out. But then again, my M5 screwed me (at 125k miles) so I went to Porsche Boxster which ran perfectly for 4 years then went to Carrera which just stung me at month 53 (at 36k miles). I might be back where I started. Wife approved the M3 today.

One thing about the M5: Electrical failure was monthly, however, powertrain was solid as a rock.

[RF5BPilot]

wife is pulling the 'i told you so...' routine.

daughter is demanding that I buy a hybrid to save the world.

son wants me to get the panamera.

Watch the Dog Whisperer. Poke them while making a "swishing" sound to stop that behavior. Then just focus on your car.

[racerken]

I'm just posting my progress (mostly lack of...):

Dealer is Fred Lavery in Birmingham, Michigan, John in Service.

Car drop-off: Friday, 9/19/08, 9am. Prognosis - Intermediate Shaft, will have to conduct discovery.

Dealer response 1: Friday, 9/19/08, 4pm. Dealer requires authorization to proceed with discovery which includes removal of engine and/or transmission at 15 hours labor which could amount to $1950. I approve since there is nothing I can do.

Dealer response 2: Friday, 9/26/08, 3pm, I actually had to call them since it was a long week. Status: engine was removed, however, no discovery conducted. Problem: the only technician that can diagnose this problem is off all week and there is no one else with such capabilities. I am placed on a waiting list to receive a loaner car.

There is room for improvement as to the minimal customer contact which if not daily at the close of business, should be at a minimum, 2 days. I might have been offered a loaner car since 1 week is a long time.

Porsche Financial Services:

The person that wrote my lease left the company and they referred me to Porsche Cars NA since PFS has nothing to do with warranty.

Porsche Cars NA:

Call: 9/26/08

On hold for 1 minute to real person (which is ultra fast). He took all details on this situation and filed a case. I informed him that I felt that the warranty should be extended since I am still under Porsche Leasing and that the car is only 4+years at 36,000 miles. I also informed him that I was a 8 year Porsche Lease customer so they should treat me right. If they are as helpful as they are polite, I am a happy driver again.

So at the end of 1 week, I am still paying for the usage fees at $ 1,079/month, still have a potential discovery liability of $ 1,950, no diagnosis on the problem, no car...

Ken

[DFC69]

Kern at Lavery is a very good and well respected tech, that's probably who will need to look at your car. That said, be very cautious with Fred Lavery - particularly the service manager Mark, he is a lying snake. I will never do business with Fred Lavery again based on a bad experience, that turned into multiple bad experiences involving multiple parties. I had to get PCNA involved before they would even act on my problem. Lavery sent my car out for an inexpensive, unauthorized repair that they screwed up initially - which also led to additional damage. Lavery service managers are unresponsive and dishonest, fortunately the 1 tech is good. There are several better, yet less expensive options in the area. I would sincerely advise that after this repair, you select one of the others. Good Luck.

[Benjamin Choi]

I'm just posting my progress (mostly lack of...):

Dealer is Fred Lavery in Birmingham, Michigan, John in Service.

Car drop-off: Friday, 9/19/08, 9am. Prognosis - Intermediate Shaft, will have to conduct discovery.

Dealer response 1: Friday, 9/19/08, 4pm. Dealer requires authorization to proceed with discovery which includes removal of engine and/or transmission at 15 hours labor which could amount to $1950. I approve since there is nothing I can do.

Dealer response 2: Friday, 9/26/08, 3pm, I actually had to call them since it was a long week. Status: engine was removed, however, no discovery conducted. Problem: the only technician that can diagnose this problem is off all week and there is no one else with such capabilities. I am placed on a waiting list to receive a loaner car.

There is room for improvement as to the minimal customer contact which if not daily at the close of business, should be at a minimum, 2 days. I might have been offered a loaner car since 1 week is a long time.

Porsche Financial Services:

The person that wrote my lease left the company and they referred me to Porsche Cars NA since PFS has nothing to do with warranty.

Porsche Cars NA:

Call: 9/26/08

On hold for 1 minute to real person (which is ultra fast). He took all details on this situation and filed a case. I informed him that I felt that the warranty should be extended since I am still under Porsche Leasing and that the car is only 4+years at 36,000 miles. I also informed him that I was a 8 year Porsche Lease customer so they should treat me right. If they are as helpful as they are polite, I am a happy driver again.

So at the end of 1 week, I am still paying for the usage fees at $ 1,079/month, still have a potential discovery liability of $ 1,950, no diagnosis on the problem, no car...

Ken

If they do anything to cover for you, it would be out of grace. Justice being served in this case is they perform all duties being asked for the money expended from your wallet.

Sorry to hear about this it does royally suck. Way too many Porsche engines blowing up. It's so common to hear of this it's no longer a surprise --> LAME Porsche, Lame.

[apex944]

I'm so sick of hearing about engine problems.

Well then don't read this cause I have 2 more. :(

Last week a buddy of mine put his car in gear after idling for a few minutes... immediately he heard a scraping sound... He called me over and tried to start it...I said "timing chain just broke"... we had it towed. Turned out to be the intermediate shaft.

Now here is the kicker. It is a 2005 C2S with less than 8000 miles! Meticulously cared for and serviced.

At the dealer the service manager turned the ignition and immediately said... "order a motor, this is toast" No investigation labor BS.

Motor arrives Thursday and will be in shorty thereafter. Granted this one is a warranty swap. But there were no questions asked.

While at the dealership we saw a boxster with a puddle under it. Yup, some poor lass had just popped her motor driving to work. Believe that was an Int shaft as well if I recall.

[racerken]

Here is an update:

BTW, the guy that is off this week is Kern. (referring to DFC69's post)

Mark, the Service Manager at Fred Lavery called to request maintenance history on the car since they are considering calling the engine a loss.

Here is my problem:

I did not keep my receipts from Sunset Imports, i.e., I bought the filters, changed the oil myself, dumped the receipts. I mean why should I? I thought the car was under warranty.

BTW, Jeff at Sunset Imports did manage to extract the latest oil filter purchase and faxed it over to me. (good guys!)

Guys, keep your receipts.

Oh yeah, still no loaner car.

Ken

Edited October 2, 2008 by racerken

[DFC69]

Ken, best of luck in this bad situation. I am surprised that Mark is considering the engine a total loss if Kern hasn't looked at it yet. Kern knows his stuff from what I have heard from a few trusted individuals, so he should be able to give a fair assesment.

Again, be extremely careful with Mark, I would verbally explain how the car was maintained (change own oil every x miles, etc), and resist until necessary (or a better explanation is provided on why the records are needed) before providing written records. Not everyone, particularly those that perform their own service, maintain receipts - and who is to say it can be proved or disproved. My fear would be providing the last receipt for an oil filter, then Lavery turning around and saying that you have only changed your oil once so it's your fault for not maintaining the vehicle. Sorry to be so cynical, but very bad experiences there.

Also, if they call the motor a complete loss, does this mean that you would not get a core refund?

Absolutely contact and request help from PCNA. Arm yourself with answers, and get good explanations as to options.

As for Sunset, they are my number one choice when buying parts, great guys.

[racerken]

Hi DFC69,

Here is my Thursday report:

Faxed in my maintenance history and Mark called me within minutes to inform me that he would pursue Porsche to cover the engine replacement and that he had a car for me. I'm there in two hours. Face-to-face he informs me that Porsche agreed to replace the motor, however, I would have to pay for the labor which could be as high as $ 2,500 but that was a high number (to be conservative). I did quickly glance at the paperwork which does state that a technician (not sure if it was Kern) did mention that there were many parts floating around in the engine... As for the engine, it comes with a 2 year warranty.

The engine was ordered and it is scheduled to arrive on Tuesday.

I did drive away with a Cayenne and a promise.

My impression of the dealership is good, better than expected. Let's see what happens next week.

Thanks,

Ken

fingers are crossed.

[CMiYC]

I did not keep my receipts from Sunset Imports, i.e., I bought the filters, changed the oil myself, dumped the receipts. I mean why should I? I thought the car was under warranty.

Sorry to hear about your trouble.

But your comment here kind of puzzled me. If you don't keep your receipts, then how would you prove that you have done the required maintenance (while in the warranty period)?

[racerken]

Hi CMiYC,

Yes, I was testing your reading and comprehension skills.

I have about 2 dealer invoices for oil changes.

I have one invoice from sunset porsche (proves I bought multiple oil filters, o-rings, washers)

I have multiple credit card statements with sunset porsche listed.

I have mulitple credit card statements with Murray's (like Grand Auto in CA) for 9 or 10 quarts of Mobil 1 0-40W.

I have 1 Murrays receipt showing line items for Mobil 1 0-40W

(my comment on not having receipts meant that I did not have the Sunset Porsche receipts ( 6 oil filters)).

I also produced a spreadsheet proving that the oil was changes once every 6 months (except for 06 when I went 10 months), air was once a year.

All this was compiled today and sent to the dealer with a cover letter explaining that I do have a very strong mechanical engineering background with powertrain and I do know how to change oil.

Anyway, the dealer accepted this level of diligence.

Thanks,

Ken

Edited October 3, 2008 by racerken

[DFC69]

Ken, that's great news on the motor, it could have been much worse. Also glad that things worked out at the dealer, personally, I will never go back...

Did Mark mention how/why they were able to get the motor covered at n/c?

[racerken]

Hi DFC69,

Mark mentioned the following:

1. repeat customer

2. low miles

3. recent warranty expiration

4. properly maintained

Fingers are still crossed.

He also mentioned that the 09's stick to the road like glue.

Thanks for the support.

ken

[DFC69]

Ken - sounds good so far, give us an update when you get the car back. Already thinking about an '09, uh oh... :D

[racerken]

Hey DFC69,

Well, today someone from PCNA called to inform me that it is official in that PCNA will cover the motor, the installation and will provide 2 years warranty. My responsibility is the disassembly + fluids which is entirely up to the dealer.

Cayenne feedback(my loaner car): I have a 09 Cayenne V6. It likes gas as I'm calculating 12 - 15 mpg. The handling is spectacular and so is the 'sport mode' which might explain the low mpg's. I keep banging my head as I enter the cockpit. I have no idea how someone 6' 5" would ever bend their neck enough to enter w/o banging the head.

I'll keep you posted on the repair.

WRT to the future... Well it's either I keep the 04 996 with new motor or get an 09. Does anyone know if the IMS problem was fixed? Or, what can you do to prevent this? Change the IMS bearing every 4 years? I've read the thread on IMS which lists a number of drivers running into this problem but none discuss the prevention.(or I missed it)

How serious are you on the 09's?

If I get one, it will be the last sports car for me.

Ken

[DFC69]

Ken, thats great to get the official word from PCNA, hope the rest of the process goes smoothly. Let us know how it all works out.

As far as the '09, I am not to that point in my life yet (3 y/o daughter, trying to move my career along, ...), but if I ever sell my 996, it will be for another 911.

-Don

[cyclocross]

...

WRT to the future... Well it's either I keep the 04 996 with new motor or get an 09. Does anyone know if the IMS problem was fixed? Or, what can you do to prevent this? Change the IMS bearing every 4 years? I've read the thread on IMS which lists a number of drivers running into this problem but none discuss the prevention.(or I missed it)

...

racerken, congratulations on your new motor.

I believe the '09s have the new motor design which eliminates the IMS.

[yasuro]

...

WRT to the future... Well it's either I keep the 04 996 with new motor or get an 09. Does anyone know if the IMS problem was fixed? Or, what can you do to prevent this? Change the IMS bearing every 4 years? I've read the thread on IMS which lists a number of drivers running into this problem but none discuss the prevention.(or I missed it)

...

racerken, congratulations on your new motor.

I believe the '09s have the new motor design which eliminates the IMS.

the '09 is a completely new engine with no IMS as such. it was described in either panorama or excellence magazine a few issues ago. the new car seems to work out all the problems in the 997/996 and hopefully will mean a new direction for porsche.

ken, did you get your car back? i was at fred lavery yesterday to pickup a tail light bulb. i saw a boxster and a black 996 turbo in the service area.

however, i did notice the big price drops on 08 997s and even on cayman S. 10k off of dealer list.