DE: letting the clutch out while braking w/out heel-toe

[JimEE]

This is my first summer of doing DE's with a 2000 S. I don't have toe/heel down and when I downshift while braking I just let the clutch out. Of course I feel a little bump when I do it. I know I wouldn't feel this bump if I was heel/toeing and revving the engine so my downshift was smoother, but how much damage might I be doing by doing this. I have had experienced drivers tell me "not much" and not to worry about it because synchro's are pretty well engineered.

Opinions?

Thanks, Jim

[pk2]

If you can double clutch half decently, though it may bump you a little, you’re taking a load of your syncros. Your trying to match the speed of the of the engine with that of the trans input shaft which changes with every gear change. Instead of the sychros doing it and wearing… you are. Every bit helps.

Regards, PK

P.S. If your good, you can shift without the clutch.

[Topless]

I too wrestle with good clean heel/toe downshifts. Old bad habits die hard. I agree with other experienced drivers and instructors. The problem with that "bump" when you release the clutch is not so much damage to the drive train (as long as you avoid over rev) but possible loss of traction and loss of control. That "bump" as the engine revs to match clutch speed unsettles the car a bit as you enter the corner. Release the clutch while driving in a straight line... no harm done. Release the clutch mid corner while your tires are already at their traction limits and you'll take a trip to spin city. Ask me how I know. :rolleyes:

[JimEE]

What about more significant wear on the clutch plate?

[Topless]

What about more significant wear on the clutch plate?

Depending on how aggressively you release the clutch, probably the difference between 100k miles on a clutch and 120k miles on a clutch. It will have a minor effect on wear and tear as opposed to really clean heel/toe downshifts. Most clutch wear occurs during launch from a standstill and aggressive upshifts.

[JimEE]

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

Jim

[savowood]

So many people try to get heel-and-toe down on the track. The track isn't a good place to learn it. You're already putting the car to the limits. You're already putting yourself to the limits. Don't extend both of those limits by trying something like this which will drive you and the car both over the limit.

I tell my students who want to learn, they need to do it on the drive home. I'll teach them how to do it in an unpopulated part of the paddock so they get the basics. Then, I encourage them to do it all the time, every day. At first it will suck. A lot! Then, once they start getting good at it, they're coming to the next track event and they're smoooooooooooth with it. They have a much better experience.

Getting heel-and-toe down at 20 m.p.h. and .2G on a public road is a lot easier than trying to do it at 40 m.p.h. and .9G on a race track with people breathing down your neck.

-Michael

[gandrade1]

So many people try to get heel-and-toe down on the track. The track isn't a good place to learn it. You're already putting the car to the limits. You're already putting yourself to the limits. Don't extend both of those limits by trying something like this which will drive you and the car both over the limit.

I tell my students who want to learn, they need to do it on the drive home. I'll teach them how to do it in an unpopulated part of the paddock so they get the basics. Then, I encourage them to do it all the time, every day. At first it will suck. A lot! Then, once they start getting good at it, they're coming to the next track event and they're smoooooooooooth with it. They have a much better experience.

Getting heel-and-toe down at 20 m.p.h. and .2G on a public road is a lot easier than trying to do it at 40 m.p.h. and .9G on a race track with people breathing down your neck.

-Michael

Hi Michael,

Had a great time at the track last weekend and my instructor suggested that I work on heel and toe for my next day at the track.

I drive a Boxster and I am now in a more advanced (as compared to the Green) run group and I am driving with faster cars and drivers, so I need to start using my gears more wisely.

How do you suggest I work on the technique? Are there any videos online that show how to do it? Should I look for someone in my local PCA that would be willing to show it to me?

Thanks,

Gus

Edited September 16, 2008 by gandrade1

[blue2000s]

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