Sound system upgrade

[laalves]

Right, after installing the Clarion nav/mm unit, I decided to go on to the next step, replacing everything else.

Being an hifi buff, and using room eq correction at home (using TAG McLaren AV32R DP and REW software), I had to have the same at my car.

So, after loads of research, I came up with the following BOM:

4 x Focal 13WS - 130mm subwoofers): two went to the doors to replace the 11.6 cm Bose, two to the rear bassbox to replace the same size Bose units;

4 x Focal 100KP - 100mm cm mid driver and 52mm tweeters) to replace the indash and side-rear same sized Bose;

2 x Alpine PDX4.150 amplifiers - Small size was one of the choice factors, since I didn't really want to fill up the small trunk with amps. I needed eight channels, 2 of them being bridged. Because of the Focal speakers, I considered the Focal 4.75 amps, but these were A/B amps with low efficiency and too large. Same problems with my first choice amps, McIntoshes: these A class monsters would drain my battery in a matter of minutes with the engine off, and use most of the trunk!;

1 x Alpine PXE-H650 processor - the heart of the system: crossovers, time alignment and room correction equalizer.

Lots of cables, connectors, tie wraps and other supplies.

Bottom of rear bassbox, already with Focal 13WS units installed

Zoom of the same

Interior of the bassbox

Zoom of one the Focal 13WS. These were wired in parallel, for a combined impedance of 2 ohm

Rear speakers being modified. HAd to cut a lot of plastic to make these fit. Still missing is the toilet paper (!!!) fill, combined with epoxy glue to fill the still visible gaps

General view of the system in the trunk

PXE-H650 processor, installed using the CD-changer bracket

Same thing

Same thing

Left amp, channels 3 and 4 are used for the in dash speakers, channels 1 and 2 for the door subs

Right amp, channels 3 and 4 are used for the rear speakers, channels 1 and 2 bridged for the bassbox

Only modification visible inside, the IR sensor for the PXE-H650 remote.

The single largest part of the work was rewiring the speakers: had to remove most of the trim and carpet of the interior of the car. I used leftovers from several generations of my home theater setups. For the bassbox, I used TAG McLaren F3-SPK cable, all the rest being Bandridge Flex Speaker cable, 1.5mm2 and 2.5mm2. For the rear speakers, I used 2.5mm2 due to the longer lengths required, for the in dash, 1.5mm2. To connect the crossovers to the drivers/tweeters, I used the biwire version of the Bandridge Flex 1.5mm2 cable.

Unfortunately, I was unable to rewire the door woofers, I didn't have the required supplies available required to redo the inner door insulation, if I went on with that bit. I rewired them only from the firewall onwards. This increased resistance a bit, but most likely not noticeable.

file____C__Program_20Files_...pdf

After folowing the calibration procedure using the supplied software, these are my results, using a choice of target equalisation curve

To pass cables, I used the service grommet in the left footwell (drilled holes in it and then sealed it with silicone), plus two other rubber grommets (to pass cables from the battery "wet" area to the trunk itself), which I also drilled in the available areas around the cable bundles already there.

In all, a full weekend, plus a week of evenings work, added by a bit of money, and that's the result: an extremely good sounding system, way, way better than the original stuff (never liked a single Bose system ever...).

Edited September 7, 2008 by laalves

[juniinc]

nice job!

[1schoir]

Very impressive, and VERY VERY above my head.

I'll bet it sounds truly awesome!

Thanks for sharing your work.

Regards, Maurice.

[laalves]

Well, after living with the system, I felt that my bass was not good, muddy, out of focus and not as powerful as I would like it to be.

This meant I had to modfy the my sub drivers were installed: I wanted to keep absolutely OEM look, so I didn't install the subs as Focal intended, i.e., in a sealed box. Now I had to seal the boxes.

So I simply installed styrofoam very tight plugs in the door bass reflex ports sub boxes, effectively sealing them, and had to heavily modify the rear bass box: remove the woofers from their floor firing position and install them in a "up" firing position, while sealing the bass ports.

Inside view of the modded bass box

Completed bass box, no grilles installed

Zoom of one of the drivers

Completed bass box, with grilles installed. This is how I have them in the car, it is still decently OEM looking.

Zoom of the same.

I will add a pic of the box installed in the car.

Guess what? After redoing the eq, the SQ is every bit as I wanted it to be! Some tweaking is still possible (will play a little with the head unit volume settings into the PXE-H650 and amplifier gains), but it is now very good!

Edited September 12, 2008 by laalves

[laalves]

Right, after the first measurement and EQ run were done, I got to play with the thing again after the bass drivers installation modification described previously.

The following three pdf files represent different situations:

The first:

Porsche_Audissey_1.pdf

Before bass drivers installation modification, but no amplifier gain correction (all channels at 12 o'clock).

The second:

Porsche_Audissey_2.pdf

After bass driver installation modification, but no amplifier gain correction (all channels at 12 o'clock).

The third:

Porsche_Audissey_3.pdf

With amplifier gain correction. What I did was, by ear, match speaker levels using amplifier gain settings, then run the EQ process.

The difference is dramatic in terms of SQ. This has been a learning process, and I thouroughly recommend closely following the instructions ( :P ), i.e., roughly equalise amp gain, AND using a PC, do not use the PXE-H650 standalone process, there's a handful of additional important options when using a PC.

It is visible on the first file of this post that when the drivers were installed in unsealed boxes, there was significant bass rollof in all channels. This severe rollof disappeared from the front channels and from the subwoofer in the second file. It is still present in the rear channels due to them not having subs associated, just the fronts and rear bassbox, which is alright because I crossed them over at 120Hz to the the bassbox. I did the same with the fronts at 80Hz.

Notice that trimming of all channels was large, going from +7dB in the RB speaker to -7dB in the sub, which were right at the maximum ability of the PXE-H650.

So, the following step was to match channel gain, which I did and the results are visible in the third file. Notice how much better the door subs blend with the dash speakers, in the LF and RF graphs, even before correction. Also note the much flatter sub response.

You may find strange that the high frequencies are rolled off in the "after" graphs, in all channels. That is my doing, since the place the tweeters are located makes them scream at my ears. Rolling them off like I did, makes the system sound pleasant, smooth and untiring. Also, the bass boost in all channels is also my doing, I did that to compensate for road and engine noise.

After the whole deal, I can NOW say I'm finally happy with the way the system sounds! It is VERY good for a car system. Still no match for my home system, but I fully expected that.

Edited September 16, 2008 by laalves

[Danyol]

Great Work!

Concerning the location of the amps; any issues with cooling? I'm in the process of planning installing some electronics in there?

[laalves]

Great Work!

Concerning the location of the amps; any issues with cooling? I'm in the process of planning installing some electronics in there?

Thanks!

None noted. Do bear in mind these are high efficiency digital amps thus they don't dissipate much heat. After, say, an hours drive at medium/high volume, they get a tad warm to the touch. They have never triggered their thermal protection.

[Danyol]

I'm installing a custom PC setup in the car, planning on locating the hardware there. Don't plan to be ambitious initially, I'll limit it to running GPS & OBII software. Will progress to MP3, Interface, amps later once the front end software and hardware prove reliable :-)

[sjaffer]

Very nice setup. I am very impressed with your knowledge. You are a tue audiophile. I am working on my system for by 996. I am having a shop do the work. He does good work, but does not realize I am a fantic. I have a Pioneer AVIC fbt 700, on the way are focal 3-way(165vr3 with KP tweeters) seperates, autotek, apline, and JL audio amp.

did you have a 3-way component system.

Thanks for the food info.

Well, after living with the system, I felt that my bass was not good, muddy, out of focus and not as powerful as I would like it to be.

This meant I had to modfy the my sub drivers were installed: I wanted to keep absolutely OEM look, so I didn't install the subs as Focal intended, i.e., in a sealed box. Now I had to seal the boxes.

So I simply installed styrofoam very tight plugs in the door bass reflex ports sub boxes, effectively sealing them, and had to heavily modify the rear bass box: remove the woofers from their floor firing position and install them in a "up" firing position, while sealing the bass ports.

Inside view of the modded bass box

Completed bass box, no grilles installed

Zoom of one of the drivers

Completed bass box, with grilles installed. This is how I have them in the car, it is still decently OEM looking.

Zoom of the same.

I will add a pic of the box installed in the car.

Guess what? After redoing the eq, the SQ is every bit as I wanted it to be! Some tweaking is still possible (will play a little with the head unit volume settings into the PXE-H650 and amplifier gains), but it is now very good!

[laalves]

Hi,

Thanks for your kind words. Regarding 2-way vs 3-way speakers, I used Focals 2 way because I wanted to keep the original look of the car. I would have been happier with the sound of 16 inch 3-way speakers, but I decided to compromise with looks.

[laalves]

I now decided to go full iPod, dropping CD/DVD support in my car but maintaining high quality sound, thus getting a new headunit, with 24bit DAC, full digital path from the iPod: enters the Alpine iXA-W407BT!

To that purpose, I have ordered: Alpine iXA-W407BT, NVE-M300P, PXA-H100, KTX-H100 and KTX-550iD (iPod drawer). This last item arrived first. I tested it in place of the 4-CD dash box(which was already in place of the original navigation drive) and hated the looks, so I decided to modify it a bit.

Here's the photos:

Looking like an innocent 4-CD dash box

But then the rear end looks odd.... Is it a 1-DIN headunit?

Ahhhh! It's a 160Gb iPod Classic drawer! Complete with 500 ripped CDs plus about 50 downloaded albums of varying quality, all in Apple Lossless:

When I get the rest of the stuff, I'll install it and post photos.

Soon, my beloved MAX983HD will be up for sale at ebay...

[Gary H]

Awesome set up. I'm about to upgrade too - although can't quite stretch to that Focal range. Will be looking lower down the range, along with DLS too - but for me a silk, rather than metal tweeter is vital!

Thanks for sharing

[xpllaketapps]

Impressive. thanks for the post, I needed to know what speakers to go to when I smoke the Bose.

I have an 04 turb cab, so the subwoofer leads to a problem. I started with an AVIC X920-bt for the head unit and PPI PCX 5800 old school amp. Its a "cheater" amp from the day. Its rated at 100 watts per channel X 4 and 400 X 1 for the sub @ 2ohm - Half that @ 4ohm like the Bose speakers.

I hooked up the door speakers and dash 2ways for channel 1 and 2, the back 2ways channel 3 and 4 and the sub channel 5. All stock speakers. I thought it sounded pretty good. I could get a little thump out of the sub and 2 ways were crystal clear. I can even hear the artist finger slides on the guitar songs.

The sub only lasted two days and it got smoked, smelled like tranny fluid burrned with a torch. I put an 8inch kennwood POS in the subwoofer enclosure (removing the port and sealing up the original speaker hole). The subwoofer enclosure is 7 litres (I filled it with water to get an accurate measurement). The sub I used likes 20+ litres sealed.

I think it sounds good and the sub pounds now, that being said I like rock and hip hop so maybe other music wouldn't sound very good.

[laalves]

Right, a few months ago I finished the new version. I replaced the Clarion MAX983HD and Alpine PXE-H650 with an Alpine iXA-W407, PXA-H100 and NVE-M300P

General view of the Alpine iXA-W407 disguised into a fabricated trim piece. I made it using plastic, leather and a Porsche Design keyfob for the letters. The iPhone support/charger is made from the original Nokia headset trim support part and a DLO charger, all covered in leather.

A closer view of the screen.

The Porsche Design letters. The whitish stuff around the letters is just reflections from the flash.

The door woofers were covered in leather by Techart (part of an extensive "leathering" program I did, part Techart, part DIY, still undergoing) and I glued the Focal logo. Just visible is the Focal 13WS sub, one of 4 in the car.

Original Porsche leather dash speaker grills in which I reinstalled the Focal 100KP, one of 4 in the car.

Alpine KTX-i500D drawer disguised with a fake front made from the standard CD drawers.

I'm very happy with the sound quality upgrade, when compared to the Clarion. This was the point of the change. I also gained a much more flexible nav system, very frequently and cheaply updated from alpine.naviextras.com, when compared to the Clarion (very closed system, maps were never updated during my 2 year ownership).

I lost a much superior iPod control GUI: to find an artist/album/whatever starting with the letter Z, I now need to tap the screen almost 30 times. With the Clarion I could do that with about... 3 taps! The nav system was also faster and more flexible in planning itineraries with multiple waypoints.

All in all, it was very worth it (the install is visually also much better, IMHO) just because of the sound alone. The PXA-H100 is excellent and as bonus to its magic, it also has 4V outputs which allow me to run the two PDX4.150 amps at the minimum gain level, resulting in no audible distortion at all! That was not at all the case with the previous install with 2V preouts from the PXE-H650 into the amps, as I raised volume, source/amps distortion came in very audibly before the speakers own came. Now I have no distortion at all when raising volume untill the moment one of the tiny 100KP starts to do strange noises, signalling time to reduce volume, which by then is higher than comfortable already.

Edited September 4, 2010 by laalves

[OU Targa]

Came across this thread (old so you may not even respond). I installed the IXA-W407 as well and although I like it overall, the main reason I got it other than ipod was iPhone bluetooth use. Do you have echo problems (whenever I use the BT the person on the other end of the phone hears an echo of themself). Any bluetooth echo problems for you?

Right, a few months ago I finished the new version. I replaced the Clarion MAX983HD and Alpine PXE-H650 with an Alpine iXA-W407, PXA-H100 and NVE-M300P

General view of the Alpine iXA-W407 disguised into a fabricated trim piece. I made it using plastic, leather and a Porsche Design keyfob for the letters. The iPhone support/charger is made from the original Nokia headset trim support part and a DLO charger, all covered in leather.

A closer view of the screen.

The Porsche Design letters. The whitish stuff around the letters is just reflections from the flash.

The door woofers were covered in leather by Techart (part of an extensive "leathering" program I did, part Techart, part DIY, still undergoing) and I glued the Focal logo. Just visible is the Focal 13WS sub, one of 4 in the car.

Original Porsche leather dash speaker grills in which I reinstalled the Focal 100KP, one of 4 in the car.

Alpine KTX-i500D drawer disguised with a fake front made from the standard CD drawers.

I'm very happy with the sound quality upgrade, when compared to the Clarion. This was the point of the change. I also gained a much more flexible nav system, very frequently and cheaply updated from alpine.naviextras.com, when compared to the Clarion (very closed system, maps were never updated during my 2 year ownership).

I lost a much superior iPod control GUI: to find an artist/album/whatever starting with the letter Z, I now need to tap the screen almost 30 times. With the Clarion I could do that with about... 3 taps! The nav system was also faster and more flexible in planning itineraries with multiple waypoints.

All in all, it was very worth it (the install is visually also much better, IMHO) just because of the sound alone. The PXA-H100 is excellent and as bonus to its magic, it also has 4V outputs which allow me to run the two PDX4.150 amps at the minimum gain level, resulting in no audible distortion at all! That was not at all the case with the previous install with 2V preouts from the PXE-H650 into the amps, as I raised volume, source/amps distortion came in very audibly before the speakers own came. Now I have no distortion at all when raising volume untill the moment one of the tiny 100KP starts to do strange noises, signalling time to reduce volume, which by then is higher than comfortable already.

[laalves]

Hi, just noticed your post. No, I have no problems with Bluetooth in this setup. I have used iPhone 3G and iPhone 4S phones.

Your echo may be due to the phone model you are using, the Bluetooth software version (newer version may not be the best for your particular phone model), or mic location. Regarding this later issue, I have reused the Porsche original mic but had to adjust its gain to suit the Clarion and later, the Alpine.

[Tothpl]

i love that stealth ipod drawer! nicely done.

[laalves]

And again another version. This time a Zenec 2041D. I was looking for an OEM-retro look, with knob/button ergonomics and found this unit.

I removed all the Alpine modules (nav, audio processor and processor/nav interface) from the boot and installed a JBL MS-8 feeding the Alpine amps.

I'm very happy with the looks, ergonomics is superb when compared with touchscreen only radios (I now found out that I hate them) and sound is actually very good, even comparing it with the previous Alpine radio.

The left knob is volume, press quick for mute and press long for turn off/on. Right side knob is scroll and press for select.

The UI is not as cheesy as everything else I've seen (Kenwood is horrendous) and used and it has even a discrete OEM look, with some orange over grey, ala PCM1.

Nav is iGo 8.5.11 which is also a considerable step up from my previous Alpine iGo 8.3.

[phillipj]

Looks awesome.. Nice job

[987_RDC]

Thanks for the post and pics. I used it as the inspiration to put the Focal 13WS in the doors of my 996TT.

 

I was able to mark w a paint pen the areas to cut away (aimed screw terminals down) from the stock BOSE box and then drill 1/8" pilot holes for #8 sheet metal screws. Prior to mounting I used some epoxy and foam to build up the edges of the stock box, stuff the port and then added poly fill. A strip of adhesive foam went around the mounting circle to seal the 5" driver to the BOSE boxes.

 

They do not have as much bass as 165V30 Focal speakers in another car but probably the best that can be done with stock boxes in the 996.
 

 

[987_RDC]

At the moment I have diamond component 4" + tweeters in the front, stock 4ohm BOSE (combo) rears, 13WS in the doors on sub channel (wired in parallel @ 2ohm) Amp is Kicker 46CXA6605

 

At the moment I have the 1 ohm BOSE cabriolet subwoofer box disconnected. Not sure how to do anything with that as it is a strange impedance and size (~4"x6")

 

Also found on another post that the BOSE door boxes are .14 cf (in case someone wondering) Ideally the 13WS wants like 3 cf or so.

Edited April 28 by 987_RDC

[laalves]

On 4/28/2024 at 6:21 PM, 987_RDC said:

Also found on another post that the BOSE door boxes are .14 cf (in case someone wondering) Ideally the 13WS wants like 3 cf or so.

 

As I'm used to metric, I converted the values above. So for the doors, 0.14 cf is about 4 liters. Feels about right, however when you mention 3 cf for the 13WS, that's almost a 60 liter box! That would be a monster sub box to have in a car and for a 13in driver. Went back to my archives and the recommendation is actually 3 to 7 liters, which means that the Bose original box is not bad.

 

 

13WS datasheet.pdf 13WS product sheet.pdf

[987_RDC]

Thanks for the heads up! Maybe they meant litres.

 

I fixed my lack of bass with gutting the stock cabriolet subwoofer enclosure and sealing it for a proper 8" DVC subwoofer install.

Super happy that I did and only cost me my rear speakers since running 5 channel amp. Cut a hole in the box and flipped it over and cut to epoxy the old speaker hole closed. Added more foam to the "bass tube" after trimming to seal the whole enclosure.

 

 

 

Edited June 6 by 987_RDC

[987_RDC]

Adjusted up the gain on the subwoofer channel and it really sounds great. I set the AMP1 to the 4"+tweeters and AMP2 to the Focal utopias and of course SUB to the 8".

 

Now to swap in the PCCM+