Paying for Top Issues

[psuclint]

I've perused many of the discussions, and appreciate the knowledge base of how, what, and why the tops break down. I didn't notice much commentary on expenses for those without the time, patience, and/or handiness to attempt a DIY adventure. I have a 1997 Boxster with 28K, and the top broke last week when I was attempting to close it. I stopped at the first sign of trouble (it seemed strained, and then I noticed it was uneven about 1/4 of the way up). The red plastic piece on the end of the driver's side pushrod is indeed broken.

After sitting at the local dealer (where I purchased the car in 2006) for a day, I was told that the driver's side top transmission needed to be replaced, and that both sides should be replaced at the same time (transmissions, pushrods, cables, etc.). All for $2500. :eek:

I decided to contact a recommended local independent Porsche shop for an estimate. After two phone calls, an email, and 24 hours later, I still don't have a substantive response. Since I'm tooling around in the dealer's 2008 Cayenne loaner, I gave up and told them to proceed with the work. Of course, the indy shop just called and left me a vmail. Too late.

Does anyone have an idea of a fair price for these repairs?

[Tool Pants]

When I asked at my local dealer a few years ago the standard price, car unseen, was $2,000. A pair of the new style top transmissions alone was $900. I do not know what the current going rate at my local dealer is. That is when I decided to learn how to fix them.

All 1997-1999 have had or will have top problems.

[1schoir]

I've perused many of the discussions, and appreciate the knowledge base of how, what, and why the tops break down. I didn't notice much commentary on expenses for those without the time, patience, and/or handiness to attempt a DIY adventure. I have a 1997 Boxster with 28K, and the top broke last week when I was attempting to close it. I stopped at the first sign of trouble (it seemed strained, and then I noticed it was uneven about 1/4 of the way up). The red plastic piece on the end of the driver's side pushrod is indeed broken.

After sitting at the local dealer (where I purchased the car in 2006) for a day, I was told that the driver's side top transmission needed to be replaced, and that both sides should be replaced at the same time (transmissions, pushrods, cables, etc.). All for $2500. :eek:

I decided to contact a recommended local independent Porsche shop for an estimate. After two phone calls, an email, and 24 hours later, I still don't have a substantive response. Since I'm tooling around in the dealer's 2008 Cayenne loaner, I gave up and told them to proceed with the work. Of course, the indy shop just called and left me a vmail. Too late.

Does anyone have an idea of a fair price for these repairs?

psuclint:

Replacing both transmissions is the dealer's usual procedure for repairing convertible top operation problems on early Boxsters.

Replacing a transmission involves removing the 19mm bolt that holds the V-lever on the transmission and then removing three nuts that hold the transmission on the three studs that are in the inner rear quarter panel. Replacing the cables and the pushrods is a very straightforward affair.

A tech with moderate experience could probably replace all of these parts in two to three hours, and then synchronize the top and make final adjustments in less than an hour. I have no idea what the labor manual allows for in terms of hours of labor for this repair, but you can take the $2,500 that you are being charged, deduct the cost of parts and then figure out how much they are charging you per hour to determine if they are being fair.

My personal opinion is that these top repairs are a big profit center for dealers. I subscribe to Tool Pants' approach.

Regards, Maurice.

[psuclint]

A tech with moderate experience could probably replace all of these parts in two to three hours, and then synchronize the top and make final adjustments in less than an hour. I have no idea what the labor manual allows for in terms of hours of labor for this repair, but you can take the $2,500 that you are being charged, deduct the cost of parts and then figure out how much they are charging you per hour to determine if they are being fair.

My personal opinion is that these top repairs are a big profit center for dealers. I subscribe to Tool Pants' approach.

Regards, Maurice.

Thanks for the opinions. I think the labor rate is approx $115/hr. I'll post the parts/labor breakdown when I get it next wk. Ugh.

[psuclint]

1 convertible top transmission - 597.30

1 AS transmission - 597.30

6 threaded spacers - 75.36

2 AS flexible shafts - 100.58

2 push rod main bow - 177.54

1 drive arm - 66.86

1 folding top pin - 22.57

Freight charge - 175.00

Total parts = $1,812.51

4 labor hours - 474.00

Repair loose connection at top control unit - 59.25

Total parts and labor = $2,345.76

2008 Cayenne for 8 days (including gasoline) = $0.00.

Future cost of purchasing Cayenne for wife who fell in love with loaner vehicle = $50,000

Edited August 19, 2008 by psuclint

[Tool Pants]

Part prices look high, but at least it is done. I said the big item was the new style transmissions. Those 6 specers are needed when mounting the new style transmissions on a 2.5.

[1schoir]

1 convertible top transmission - 597.30

1 AS transmission - 597.30

6 threaded spacers - 75.36

2 AS flexible shafts - 100.58

2 push rod main bow - 177.54

1 drive arm - 66.86

1 folding top pin - 22.57

Freight charge - 175.00

Total parts = $1,812.51

4 labor hours - 474.00

Repair loose connection at top control unit - 59.25

Total parts and labor = $2,345.76

2008 Cayenne for 8 days (including gasoline) = $0.00.

Future cost of purchasing Cayenne for wife who fell in love with loaner vehicle = $50,000

psuclint:

Like Tool Pants said, at least it's done. As for the wife, just remind her that if you buy one, the gasoline won't be free :P

For future reference, if you have the parts numbers handy on your invoice, it might be helpful to future posters who go this route to post those part numbers in this thread so that it's all in one place.

Enjoy your newly functioning top!

Regards, Maurice.

[Beelzy]

Yes!

Parts numbers would be MOST appreciated for us Shade Tree mecahnics. :thankyou:

[psuclint]

I don't have the invoice handy, but I'll edit original post with part #s in a day or two.

After having the car back for 24 hrs, now my airbag light is on again. This will be 3rd visit for this issue, possibly control unit (or something like that).. :cursing: Time to start searching "airbag" in the forums...

The service mgr said they will start using Caymans, in addition to Cayennes, as loaner cars. I guess that's the upside.

[CA_Boxster]

I don't have the invoice handy, but I'll edit original post with part #s in a day or two.

After having the car back for 24 hrs, now my airbag light is on again. This will be 3rd visit for this issue, possibly control unit (or something like that).. :cursing: Time to start searching "airbag" in the forums...

The service mgr said they will start using Caymans, in addition to Cayennes, as loaner cars. I guess that's the upside.

They probably flipped the airbag light on when you didn't take the bait on the Cayenne. The Cayman with get you when they quote a new control processor :)

You probably expected to get bit by dealer pricing on the top repair but it doesn't look like they got you too bad. Take a hundred bucks off the labor and about 15-20% off the parts and that's probably the cheapest an indy would be able to go. Those are going to be parts that probably don't have a lot of alternative sources.

[SteveNacc]

When I asked at my local dealer a few years ago the standard price, car unseen, was $2,000. A pair of the new style top transmissions alone was $900. I do not know what the current going rate at my local dealer is. That is when I decided to learn how to fix them.

All 1997-1999 have had or will have top problems.

Are the 2000-2003 tops having these same issues? Seems like Porsche should have been able to get a handle on this.

The automatic top is cool, but maybe more practical to go old school and have us manually tuck it in when a little wind in the hair is called for.

[Nurvus]

Here are a couple solutions for those who have mechanical problems with the top, and/or cracks in the rear plastic window AND have little or no money for repairs/replacement.

Issue 1. My 1998 986 had nearly all of the top mechanisms removed when I bought it. The transmissions, pushrods and cables were gone. Iinitially, I bought replacements of all these on ebay, intending to re-install. But I have since found that it is almost as easy to operate the top manually, and I have done so for almost a year. Moreover, it is safer in that there's no mechanism to fail and cause a warped clamshell, an occasional occurrence.

I just grip the very back of the clamshell, right above the brake light, and pull it up and back. With the rails for it greased, it moves very smoothly. Then release the center catch and pull the top back, doing the Boxster chop; it folds nicely. Then the clamshell drops back into place easily. Since we have to get up to do the chop anyway, it's not much more trouble this way, it's just less cool looking. To put the top back up, reverse the process, except you must make sure the windows are down or doors open when closing the catch.

Issue 2. My rear plastic window also has cracks on the side, as is nearly inevitable after many harsh winters. I intend to get it replaced this winter, but until then, I have glued in patches of black nylon material [cut from an unused overnight bag I found in my closet]. I glued patches on using 3M windshield cement, the very sticky gooey black stuff used to glue windows into cars; applied using a caulking gun. See photos. It's not perfect, but it looks better than electrical tape, and postpones repair at very little cost.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Nurvus

[1schoir]

When I asked at my local dealer a few years ago the standard price, car unseen, was $2,000. A pair of the new style top transmissions alone was $900. I do not know what the current going rate at my local dealer is. That is when I decided to learn how to fix them.

All 1997-1999 have had or will have top problems.

Are the 2000-2003 tops having these same issues? Seems like Porsche should have been able to get a handle on this.

The automatic top is cool, but maybe more practical to go old school and have us manually tuck it in when a little wind in the hair is called for.

The 2000 to 2004 top mechanisms are more reliable and trouble free than the 1997-1999 versions and the system (transmissions, cables, double relay) can be retrofitted for less than $400 by buying used parts and doing some rewiring.

If you also retrofit a 2003 or 2004 OEM top and frame assembly onto your earlier Boxster you no longer have to do the "chop" or worry about plastic cracking at temperatures that may be too low for the plastic window but still enjoyable for top-down driving, especially with heat on and/or heated seats.

The top can work very well manually even though it's obviously not as convenient. The only caution is to make sure that you have devised some way of fastening the clamshell down securely on top of the retracted top so that it doesn't "catch wind" at speed. That would be a disaster you don't need.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited October 2, 2009 by 1schoir