value of pre-purchace inspection

[930chef]

i just bought a 2002 c4s after the 4th of july weekend subject to a pre-purchace inspection. after giving the porsche dealer $310, the service mngr said that the wipers would need changing, brake fluid needed flushing, one of the tail pipes needed tack welding to stop vibration. so i asked "no leaks? no major issues? just the front brakes in a couple thousand miles. so i make a deal buy the car and on the way to work today 7/14 , my clutch starts slipping horribly. by the time i get to work im having a helluva time getting 1st, not to mention that im uber pissed. im still waiting for the service writer to call (expecting call tues am) so my question is...are my expections too high with a ppi at a porsche dealership. by the way the only pcars ive owned that were gearboxes were 2 930s and a 911sc...a completely different feel from the 996 gbox. was i being too presumptuous that the techs would find something soo glaring. i can check the fluids for gods sake. im baffled. i believe i should have some expectationthat the car should be in decent condition. anyone with simialar experience? resolution? thanx in advance for any and all advice...kevin

[GranburyChuck]

A year ago I was looking for a 911 (my first one). I found a car in San Antonio (about 4 hours from me) and I spoke to the Porsche dealer about doing a PPI. When I spoke to them it sounded like they were just doing a visual and looking at fluids. I think they were going to run the car for codes. It sounded to me that this was pretty cursory inspection. I ended up going with an independent that did a much more thorough job including a leak down test for less money than Porsche. I spoke to several of my local Porsche dealers and they were all pretty much the same. For a few hundred bucks it was just a quick glance for them ($120/hour service rate where I live). Still I am not sure if there is an inspection cover to look at the clutch (may be I just don't know) so this may be something anyone would have missed.

[KevinMac]

One would think a valid road test, and working the clutch to try and make it slip would have been done, since we are only talking a couple of weeks. Also They should have noticed a higher than usual pedal. These things grab pretty low. Unless of course you have a RMS leak whereas oil has gotten on your clutch disk. One would think that the dealer inspection would have found an RMS seepage.

A good way to see the condition of the clutch is to get it in high gear at slow speed and see if the clutch slips or the engine lugs.

Edited July 15, 2008 by KevinMac

[JeTexas]

I didn't know Porsche offered the service when I bought my car last year, so I used these guys http://www.autoexam.com/

I think it was $120, but the guy caught a leaking motor mount, a burned-out airbag warning light, no reverse lights and a slipping clutch among many other cosmetic things that he listed off. The dealership agreed to fix everything on the list and warranted the airbag issue for a year because the bulb had burned out stemming from those seatbelt sensor issues.

Now, despite all that and even though the mechanic that did the exam gave the engine and transmission clean bills of health, I still had the CEL light come on a day after I left the lot due to the EGR valve going out.

What can you do?

[jacaba]

First of all, congratulations on purchasing a 996 C4S. Its a great car that you find to love and drive. I own one and have had no problems whatsoever with the transmission gears and other parts . . . and I did not buy it from a Porsche dealer but a import company that I trust. I did a lot of research on where to purchase my Porsche (years) and finally found the one that I wanted. Actually, I chose it over a 997 4S. Its all in the wide "hips" and rear view isn't it?

Regarding your dilemma, I would hold the mechanic/dealership accountable for misleading you. There are laws that protect consumers but without knowing the mileage, car fax and integrity of the dealer/person you purchases the car from it would be difficult to determine whether you bought "as is" or "buyer beware." A lot of Porsches are sold before the "big" 60,000 mile service because they have been abused/neglected but not all. I was lucky because I did my research and am picky when it comes to having someone work on my Porsche.

Good luck to you. You've got a beautiful Porsche . . . so go to "battle!"

[demosan]

i just bought a 2002 c4s after the 4th of july weekend subject to a pre-purchace inspection. after giving the porsche dealer $310, the service mngr said that the wipers would need changing, brake fluid needed flushing, one of the tail pipes needed tack welding to stop vibration. so i asked "no leaks? no major issues? just the front brakes in a couple thousand miles. so i make a deal buy the car and on the way to work today 7/14 , my clutch starts slipping horribly. by the time i get to work im having a helluva time getting 1st, not to mention that im uber pissed. im still waiting for the service writer to call (expecting call tues am) so my question is...are my expections too high with a ppi at a porsche dealership. by the way the only pcars ive owned that were gearboxes were 2 930s and a 911sc...a completely different feel from the 996 gbox. was i being too presumptuous that the techs would find something soo glaring. i can check the fluids for gods sake. im baffled. i believe i should have some expectationthat the car should be in decent condition. anyone with simialar experience? resolution? thanx in advance for any and all advice...kevin

930,

Did you actually buy the car from the P dealership, or did they only do the $310 PPI??? In either case, there is a "peep" hole where you can look at the clutch/flywheel interface and get a reasonable view of the cluch thickness. One would have thought they would have looked at that as well as driving the car and testing the clutch for slippage as part of a $310 PPI.

I would definitely go after them and ask for an explanation as to exactly what they did check ( beyond fluid levels etc..). I also bought a 02 C4S a few years ago and had a reputable Indie do the PPI for $230 as I recall and it included a thorough drive and inspection of the drive train on a lift ( they checked to see the front differential was in top order as well as pulling plugs and doing a lead-down test ( in addition to AC and ATC functionality ) as well as fluid conditions. Sounds to me the dealer did a superficial job and I would ensure NOT to ever have any service sone there if you can avoid it. My $.02 !!

Hope you have better luck with the car than these firsweeks and I'm sure you will enjoy the C4S. It's a great car!!

Demosan :cheers:

[PMc4S]

I have a 2003 C4S and actually for these 996s, the 60K maintenance is not that big at all unless it's being performed at a dealer w/ their sky-high hourly rate. Besides various visual inpections it's pretty much an oil & filter change, new plugs, and air filter - see http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?a...=maint_us_mj_03

[flyingpenguin]

One would think a valid road test, and working the clutch to try and make it slip would have been done, since we are only talking a couple of weeks. Also They should have noticed a higher than usual pedal. These things grab pretty low. Unless of course you have a RMS leak whereas oil has gotten on your clutch disk. One would think that the dealer inspection would have found an RMS seepage.

A good way to see the condition of the clutch is to get it in high gear at slow speed and see if the clutch slips or the engine lugs.

I agree here. I recently had my clutch on a 200 996 C2 go bad on me after 60K miles, and what a difference once the new clutch and pressure plate are in.

Obviously is grips lower and the pedal feel is noticably lighter. The least thing the stealer that did the PPI should have done is mention a heavy pedal feel and high grip point. I consider this basic knowledge for anyone that regularly works on / drives these cars.

Joost

[Malakas]

My PPI was just a quick look around - very superficial. The service manager actually said, "its a look, but don't touch overview."

For my 2002 C4S, I felt a little better because the owner had all of his maintenance records, and the car was leaking no oil (the RMS and IMS seals had already been replaced). I road tested the car with the service manager, and everything seemed as it should be. I do have an extended warranty (that I will continue forever), just in case...

I certainly think that for $300 they would have noticed an almost ready-to-die clutch. They told me I had less than 50% life on the clutch (just as a CYA move). Surely they will help cover most of the repair, seeing that an impending $2000 clutch job might have kept you from purchasing the car... which possibly means they defrauded you.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Malakas

[White987S]

Lots of Porsche dealerships have actually stopped doing PPI's because customers get upset like 930chef.

I have paid for 2 PPI's this year (both with the dealership) and have passed on the cars (993TT). So, they are helpful, but not perfect.

Having to replace the clutch is not the end-of-the-World. Just get it done, and you will be very happy again with your new Porsche!

I think whenever buying a used car (especially a Porsche) you need to have a budget set aside for a few repairs right after you take ownership, to get the car the way you really want it.

[Lee Quave]

It’s is a **** shame but, it is only a clutch. It could be worst. Asking the dealer to inspect/grade the product they are selling is like asking a high school student to grade his own test. Did you not take the car for a test drive yourself? GL

[rrspikemarty]

One would think a valid road test, and working the clutch to try and make it slip would have been done, since we are only talking a couple of weeks. Also They should have noticed a higher than usual pedal. These things grab pretty low. Unless of course you have a RMS leak whereas oil has gotten on your clutch disk. One would think that the dealer inspection would have found an RMS seepage.

A good way to see the condition of the clutch is to get it in high gear at slow speed and see if the clutch slips or the engine lugs.

I agree here. I recently had my clutch on a 200 996 C2 go bad on me after 60K miles, and what a difference once the new clutch and pressure plate are in.

Obviously is grips lower and the pedal feel is noticably lighter. The least thing the stealer that did the PPI should have done is mention a heavy pedal feel and high grip point. I consider this basic knowledge for anyone that regularly works on / drives these cars.

Joost

Very interesting. I had a thorough PPI done at the same indie as Demosan for the 2003 C4S i purchased, and I specifically asked about their opinion of the condition of the clutch. The technician said the clutch was very firm and road test indicated a good strong clutch. My clutch is very heavy, has low take-up, but feels solid as a rock. Not sure what jperquin is saying here - a heavy pedal-feeling clutch is a bad sign? I have not owned a p-car previously, so nothing to compare with, but clutch feel is far heavier than clutches in other new models i have driven.

[flyingpenguin]

Very interesting. I had a thorough PPI done at the same indie as Demosan for the 2003 C4S i purchased, and I specifically asked about their opinion of the condition of the clutch. The technician said the clutch was very firm and road test indicated a good strong clutch. My clutch is very heavy, has low take-up, but feels solid as a rock. Not sure what jperquin is saying here - a heavy pedal-feeling clutch is a bad sign? I have not owned a p-car previously, so nothing to compare with, but clutch feel is far heavier than clutches in other new models i have driven.

Hi there,

All I was saying is that with a new clutch / pressure plate, the pedal feels a lot lighter and grips much deeper. I guess it's imposible to compare between makes / models, but if for example one 2000 996 C2 has a lighter clutch feel than an otherwise identical other 2000 996 C2, chances are the first one's clutch is in better shape.

Joost

[ejdoherty911]

Of course they should have checked out the clutch. It's a pre-purchase inspection! For $300 bucks what are they doing, checking the tire pressure? The tech should be inspecting the car for a minimum of two hours straight.

[Kim]

.... I spoke to the Porsche dealer about doing a PPI. When I spoke to them it sounded like they were just doing a visual and looking at fluids. I think they were going to run the car for codes. It sounded to me that this was pretty cursory inspection. ....I spoke to several of my local Porsche dealers and they were all pretty much the same. For a few hundred bucks it was just a quick glance for them ($120/hour service rate where I live).

When I bought my car used, 4 years ago, the PPI was done by Park Place Porsche in Dallas. It cost $430, and was paid for by the seller with the report delivered to me. They used, in addition to their own checklist, the Porsche factory "Pre-Owned Inspection Checklist". It was two pages long, and very thorough .... including a road test and many mechanical checks. I just looked at the form, and it includes an item for "clutch action". The mechanic checked "yes", "no", or N/A for every single item. If any Porsche dealers are, indeed, doing "cursory" or "look but don't touch" checks and calling that PPI, then they are either not using the Porsche form .... or they are lying and cheating whomever pays for the inspection.

At least at this dealer, at that time, the PPI was a very thorough and complete inspection and gave me a great deal of confidence in my purchase. I've had no reason to doubt that in the intervening 4 years & 50,000 miles.