Another 986 clamshell issue

[jc143413]

I am new to this forum and a new (1yr) boxster owner, so please afford me the patience granted in times of need to those less informed.

I have diligently searched the "top" section and have found topics similar to my problem but just in case the specifics really make a difference in the anticipated resolution I will describe my self inflicted malfunction.

I am in the process of building a house and had a rather rigid plastic tube containing house plans stored on the small storage shelf behind the seats. This tube had been kept there for several weeks without problem until today. This morning I lowered the top and as the process was nearing completion there was a hesitation in the completion of the process. There was no unusual sounds, just a slightly longer opening process. Later, in anticipation of rain, I closed the top without issue except that the light indicating fully closed had not gone off. I then reopened the top slightly, about 1/4 open, and attempted to reclose, nothing happened. The clam shell was partially open, the top was still 1/4 open and nothing would move. I got out to look and noticed that the clam shell was canted slightly, lower on the left. I could hear a clicking when I depressed the switch but no movement. I was able to push the top down enough to latch and drive home.

Now, here I am. I hope that someone can lend assistance. This is the first problem that I've had with the car, I absolutely love it. I am fairly handy with tools so I am hoping that this is something that I can handle myself.

Thank you in advance.

Joe

[Tool Pants]

I have see that more than once.

The first thing to check on your year is to see of there is a broken transmission cable. This has already been covered in the top section, so start reading the older messages. You clamshell is probably tweaked but you can bent it back into shape, and this has also been covered. You got to get the top into the service position to inspect what went wrong or broke.

[jc143413]

Thanks Tool Pants, I guess that I've got alot of reading to do. I hope this doesn't turn out to be a "take it to the dealer" job.

[1schoir]

Thanks Tool Pants, I guess that I've got alot of reading to do. I hope this doesn't turn out to be a "take it to the dealer" job.

jc:

If you are handy with tools, this is definitely not a job that requires a trip to the dealer.

Get the top into the "service" position first, as Tool Pants, says, and then describe what you have found. There is a description of this procedure in the owner's manual and I believe it is also described in the Bentley manual.

I'm sure that the collective wisdom on this website will be more than sufficient to resolve your problem.

Regards, Maurice.

[pk2]

There you are Marice.

Its a pain but if you can build a house or read a blue print you can sort this out. When your done you'll marvel at how simple it really was. As tool pants said, you first need to get it in the service position and familiarize your self with the components (levers, cables, tie-rodss, etc)

Everything has probably been covered here or on one of the other Boxster forums. “Maurice” is the man you really want to talk to or do a search of my threads. I went through the gamut last year on line (here I think)

Regards, PK

[jvcuenca]

There you are Marice.

Its a pain but if you can build a house or read a blue print you can sort this out. When your done you'll marvel at how simple it really was. As tool pants said, you first need to get it in the service position and familiarize your self with the components (levers, cables, tie-rodss, etc)

Everything has probably been covered here or on one of the other Boxster forums. “Maurice” is the man you really want to talk to or do a search of my threads. I went through the gamut last year on line (here I think)

Regards, PK

yup PK is right. Maurice and TOOL PANTS are the experts!!! :thumbup:

[jc143413]

Thanks everyone, I've been reading every old post that I can find (six hrs. so far) here concerning this issue. I'm glad to see that there has been so much success in resolving it and that there is so much effort given in the assistance. I'm feeling very confident that I'll be able to handle it. If I can't, I don't hesitate to ask for advice.

Thanks again

[jc143413]

Am I correct in assuming that I need to be very selective with what I place on the shelf behind the seat? Was the tube the probable cause of my problem or was this an unfortunate coincidence?

[Edman]

The tube was definitely your problem. No convertible owner should EVER dupe themselves into believing they'll remember everything they put back there when the sun shows up. Make it a hard and fast rule to never put anything in the top stowage area.

[Tool Pants]

I reread your message and you may have closed the top while the tube was in the way. If so then the other thing to check is to see if you broke one of the plastic joints. Still need to put the top in the service position to see what is going on in there.

[jc143413]

Ok, I've removed the clamshell, I've disconnected the struts and the red tipped rods with ball joint ends. The top is stuck in the closed position and when I depress the top open switch I hear what sounds like a solenoid actuation and a black shrouded cable across the back of the clamshell opening jerks.

Nothing that I've see thusfar appears to be bent or broken. I have not seen any cables, other than the afore mentioned. I have not removed the V shaped brackets that I assume cover the transmission housing. What now? It's about 98 degrees and 75% humidity. I've taken a break to dry off a bit.

Just went back out and yes, it looks like the small struts are bent, according to photos posted from a previous post. If I attempt to straighten these out are they supposed to be perfectly straight or do they have any intended bend?

Edited June 11, 2008 by jc143413

[1schoir]

Ok, I've removed the clamshell, I've disconnected the struts and the red tipped rods with ball joint ends. The top is stuck in the closed position and when I depress the top open switch I hear what sounds like a solenoid actuation and a black shrouded cable across the back of the clamshell opening jerks.

Nothing that I've see thusfar appears to be bent or broken. I have not seen any cables, other than the afore mentioned. I have not removed the V shaped brackets that I assume cover the transmission housing. What now? It's about 98 degrees and 75% humidity. I've taken a break to dry off a bit.

jc:

I assume that by saying that you have removed the clamshell you are actually talking about retracting the clamshell so that it is at its rearmost position (i.e., at a 45 degree angle). If not, you can reinstall the clamshell and pull it back to that position with the black hydraulic pushrods disconnected for now.

I'm surprised that you have red plastic cups at the end of your push rods, because those were originally only found on early Boxsters. Nonetheless, if they (the plastic cups) are not cracked or haven't broken apart you can reuse them at least until you get this problem resolved.

Your profile says that your Boxster is a MY 2002, so you should have the Version B (updated, improved) transmissions.

Although the black sheath jerking probably means that the inner cable is okay, the first thing to do now is to establish whether the inner (speedometer-type) cables are intact and still capable of rotating the V-levers. Those cables are inside the two black shrouded cables that run from the back of the transmission housings to the electric motor. Pull the clip that is holding each cable housing into the sides of the electric motor upwards (thin, upside down U-shape) and pull out the cable so that you can inspect the inner cable. Once you have pulled a cable out of the side of the motor, establish that you have 3/4" sticking out as you probably read in the older posts.

If you do have 3/4 of an inch sticking out, grab the end of the inner cable with your fingers or with a pair of pliers and pull on it to see if it hasn't frayed or come apart inside the outer black sheath.

If the cable is intact, put the end in an electric drill and spin the cable first clockwise, then counterclockwise for a 5 or 10 seconds each and see if the V-lever on that side is rotating while you the electric drill spins the cable.

Do that on each side (with all of the push rods disconnected) and report back. Also, try to keep cool, although that can't be easy with the conditions you describe.

Regards, Maurice.

[Tool Pants]

Under the clamshell is a motor with 2 cables connected to it. Left cable and right cable. Disconnect the cables from the motor. First picture is from a car like yours. You will see a brass clip that holds each cable to the motor. Lift up on the clip to remove the clip and pull the cable out.

Inside the black housing of the cable is is the inner drive cable. The drive cable is spun by the motor to make the top work. The drive cable had a square end. Second picture is my 1997 and your motor will not have the lever on top.

Pull on the square end and see if the drive cable has broken inside the black housing. In the 3rd picture you can see a section of the drive cable has broken off from the rest. This also shows the square end on the left of the picture that goes into the motor.

[1schoir]

...

Just went back out and yes, it looks like the small struts are bent, according to photos posted from a previous post. If I attempt to straighten these out are they supposed to be perfectly straight or do they have any intended bend?

jc:

The pushrods that connect each V-levers to the steel ball at the base of the B-pillar are not supposed to be perfectly straight. About 3/4 of an inch forward of the point at which the smooth end of the threaded rod is welded onto the u-shaped, long metal bracket, the rod is bent and then about another 1 1/2 inches it is bent in the opposite direction, with the net effect being an overall straight alignment between the rear of the rod and the front of the rod.

Tool Pants has posted photos of the pushrods in earlier posts.

Regards, Maurice.

[jc143413]

I've now removed both transmission assemblies, attempted to drill operate each but only succeeded in shredding the end of one of them, the twisted steel wire untwisted. I have yet to open the transmission housing, waiting on feedback before I go further. I have yet to find anything wrong except a possibly slightly bent strut.

What now?

Thanks Maurice, since both struts were, for the most part, symetrically bent I am unsure if damage is present or not.

Edited June 11, 2008 by jc143413

[jc143413]

I'm sorry 1schoir and tool pants, I didn't mean to ignore your response. I'm bouncing in and out trying to stay hydrated and check for new posts and missed yours.

Yep, the red ball joint ends are there and the paperwork says 2002. Maybe it's early year and left over parts.

The transmissions are Stehle & Sohne if that gives any indication of updated or not.

I think that the shredded cable will still function, but I'm hesitant about trying the drill again. Although they are intact.

Edited June 11, 2008 by jc143413

[1schoir]

I'm sorry 1schoir and tool pants, I didn't mean to ignore your response. I'm bouncing in and out trying to stay hydrated and check for new posts and missed yours.

Yep, the red ball joint ends are there and the paperwork says 2002. Maybe it's early year and left over parts.

The transmissions are Stehle & Sohne if that gives any indication of updated or not.

I think that the shredded cable will still function, but I'm hesitant about trying the drill again. Although they are intact.

jc:

In all likelihood your inner steel cable probably shredded when the electric motor tried to force the closing of the clamshell when the tube interfered with its operation. You will have to get a replacement cable and install it on that side before you can go any further.

Regards, Maurice.

[jc143413]

It was intact when I removed the end from the motor. Then I had the pleasure of watching as the thin metal wire began unraveling as I hit the drill. Variable speed DeWalt cordless. Very low speed, I just couldnt stop quick enough.

[1schoir]

It was intact when I removed the end from the motor. Then I had the pleasure of watching as the thin metal wire began unraveling as I hit the drill. Variable speed DeWalt cordless. Very low speed, I just couldnt stop quick enough.

jc:

I still think that it was probably damaged when the electric motor's torque tried to close the clamshell and/or the rear main bow against the obstruction.

The inner cable could have been winding itself up and then unwinding itself inside the black cable housing as the motor operated in either direction. That little electric motor produces a lot of torque and spins at a fairly high RPM rate when you push the button.

Regardless, I don't think it would be a good idea to try to operate the top with a marginal inner cable because you run the risk of tweaking or bending the clamshell if one side malfunctions.

Regards, Maurice.

[jc143413]

Had not considered that Maurice. That certainly is a possibility that I had not considered. Which would explain why the cable unraveled so quickly when I applied the drill. Thanks for your persistance Maurice. Can I purchase just the inner cable or must I buy the cable housing as well?

[1schoir]

Had not considered that Maurice. That certainly is a possibility that I had not considered. Which would explain why the cable unraveled so quickly when I applied the drill. Thanks for your persistance Maurice. Can I purchase just the inner cable or must I buy the cable housing as well?

jc:

The cable comes as one complete unit, which includes the inner and outer cables.

The part number is 986-561-717-03-M100 and it lists for about $37.00. If you don't want to go to the dealer, you can get it cheaper by calling one of the board sponsors, Sunset Imports.

Ask for Jeff, he knows his parts and is very helpful.

Since you have the transmissions out, it will be fairly easy to replace the cable. There is a post in the archives that deals with replacing the cable if you run into any roadblocks.

Regards, Maurice.

[jc143413]

Thanks Maurice, I've already ordered the cables, Jeff wasn't in today, and they should be here by Tuesday. I'm thinking seriously about ordering the shop manuals for the Boxster, do you know if there still a discount given for Renntech members?

[1schoir]

Thanks Maurice, I've already ordered the cables, Jeff wasn't in today, and they should be here by Tuesday. I'm thinking seriously about ordering the shop manuals for the Boxster, do you know if there still a discount given for Renntech members?

jc:

Good going.

The Boxster Manuals are a little cryptic, but definitely a good investment, especially at the fire sale price. The discount is still available to RennTech members, now down to $200.00!!!

Here is the link: http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?a...amp;code=sunset

Regards, Maurice.

[jc143413]

What now? I've replaced the broken cables and reassembled almost everything and during the initial "make sure everything works" test I got nothing. Had to go buy a new electrical meter, previous was stolen in a break-in in Jan., tested the motor, it's fine. checked the voltage to the motor, nothing. I've checked the fuses indicated as pertinant and they look fine. I'd check the switch next but it looks like a pain to get to. What now?

[1schoir]

What now? I've replaced the broken cables and reassembled almost everything and during the initial "make sure everything works" test I got nothing. Had to go buy a new electrical meter, previous was stolen in a break-in in Jan., tested the motor, it's fine. checked the voltage to the motor, nothing. I've checked the fuses indicated as pertinant and they look fine. I'd check the switch next but it looks like a pain to get to. What now?

jc:

A few questions:

1. What position is your top in now?

2. Is the parking brake pulled up and the parking brake warning light on in the dashboard?

3. Is the "convertible top up" warning light on?

4. When you press the switch, do you hear a solenoid clicking or is there absolutely nothing?

5. Regardless of the position of the top, do you get nothing when you press the switch in EITHER direction?

6. If your top is completely closed, do both windows drop about 4 inches when you unhook the latch at the top center of the windshield frame?

Regards, Maurice.

Edited June 24, 2008 by 1schoir