Not buying a 996 because of engine failures, fear

[Kim]

.... as a young professional who moves every 4 months around the country and has one daily driver and only makes 105k a year I don't think I can afford this gamble now and safely put away enough money for a large house downpayment in 3-4 years as well as a substantial retirement plan.

Oh .... you have more problems than I realized. Maybe a Kia would suit better.

[Yoops Racing]

I luv my "TimeBomb". It is a 1999 C2 with 28k miles, no warranty. I have only had to change a wheelbearing, MAF, some oil, and new coolant tank. I guess I need to dump it asap cause we all know it will blow up.......geez these topics are really dumb. Every used car can be a timebomb. I will say that you can buy any highend car now cheap as the used mkt is in the toilet for sellers. Buyer's beware and maybe you autocrossers need to be running non german cars :P

[Lightfall]

The bottom line is that I love these cars too, and I can appreciate people ripping on me. I wasn't bragging about my income, it isn't anything to brag about, I mentioned it for the simple fact that being 25 I am trying to make a fundamental decision between purchasing a car that by all means I love in every way except for the IMS-stigma, the only car that would make me spend more than 20k on a vehicle, and going the safe route to save up for another nice item like a downpayment on a house.

I know this probably came off as an extremely rude remark and now I am embarrassed I assure you.

I did NOT come here to knock these cars, I came here because I love the hell out of them and was looking for answers to get me into the driver's seat.

So, given all of the research, all of the considerations, and so forth the most consistent answer seems to be that there are aftermarket warranties that will cover an engine explosion. The question is; which one of these warranties has a track record of being reputable, isn't a fly by night company with just as much probability of dissolving as the engine is exploding, and where can I sign up?

I have a 99 C2 with a beautiful set of aftermarket wheels and 33k miles fresh off of service for 30k and I am absolutely in love with it. If it won't be eligible for a porsche warranty then I need the next best thing!

//once again, my apologies for appearing less than ideal in my language, it was all for a good cause.

[Lightfall]

Also, Kim. The more that I read it the more I am annoyed by your comment. I suppose if I went from an M Coupe to lusting after a 996 that realistically a kia would be a much better option for me? The sarcasm was a well delivered effort to waste everyone's time when all I am looking for are answers to get my own set of keys to this remarkable car.

Drporsche is the one who offered the most sensible reply out of everyone. His post was simple and informational and it came down to saying that engine deaths do occur, if you want the car and you are a financially responsible individual that your most prudent approach would be to get a warranty (a proper warranty) and then enjoy the vehicle lest you want to risk ruining yourself in the case that your budget doesn't allow for liquid assets of such magnitude (especially if it is your daily driver and you require a measure of reliability or reliability with an alternative mode of transportation that will be covered by someone else such as insurance or a warranty).

[1schoir]

The bottom line is that I love these cars too, and I can appreciate people ripping on me. I wasn't bragging about my income, it isn't anything to brag about, I mentioned it for the simple fact that being 25 I am trying to make a fundamental decision between purchasing a car that by all means I love in every way except for the IMS-stigma, the only car that would make me spend more than 20k on a vehicle, and going the safe route to save up for another nice item like a downpayment on a house.

I know this probably came off as an extremely rude remark and now I am embarrassed I assure you.

I did NOT come here to knock these cars, I came here because I love the hell out of them and was looking for answers to get me into the driver's seat.

So, given all of the research, all of the considerations, and so forth the most consistent answer seems to be that there are aftermarket warranties that will cover an engine explosion. The question is; which one of these warranties has a track record of being reputable, isn't a fly by night company with just as much probability of dissolving as the engine is exploding, and where can I sign up?

I have a 99 C2 with a beautiful set of aftermarket wheels and 33k miles fresh off of service for 30k and I am absolutely in love with it. If it won't be eligible for a porsche warranty then I need the next best thing!

//once again, my apologies for appearing less than ideal in my language, it was all for a good cause.

Lightfall:

Don't be so hard on yourself.

If I can give you one bit of advice on a warranty it's the following: Be very sure that whichever warranty company you choose, that the company is backed by an insurance company. The name of the insurance company MUST be spelled out in the warranty contract. If not, you could fall victim to a too-common occurrence of the warranty company "folding" after they have collected premiums.

Also, (I guess it's two bits of advice) concentrate on getting a warranty that covers you for the one big ticket item (engine replacement) most of all, and that there is no artificial limit on the maximum amount of the overall claims or single claim that will not cover the cost of engine replacement. Conservatively speaking you should figure the cost of engine replacement (re-manufactured engine from Porsche plus labor at a dealer [which will get you an additional warranty] to run between $13K to $20K). Getting that kind of warranty will give you some peace of mind, and that will contribute greatly to your enjoyment of the car.

Congratulations on your new acquisition.

Regards, Maurice.

[whs]

I have held off on this thread, but figured now was a good time to jump in. Brother, I know how you feel. If it's in your blood, there is nothing like a Porsche 911! I am 41 yo and have asked for a Porsche for Christmas every year since 1982 when I first got my drivers license. I have been able to afford one of these cars for almost as many years as you have been alive. The reason I have never bought one was I could never justify it. I wouldn't have one today if my neighbor hadn't said "you can afford it, why not buy it?". I finially said it's time. That being said, last year I bought a '99 C2 Cab, but I could have easily bought an off the lot 997 Turbo. My point is, there is more in life than an awesome car. If you can't buy it and sleep at night, don't. You are a young person who apparently has good earning potential. If you can not buy this car and meet your other life goals (retirement, house....), wait until you can. I can only tell you that the satisfaction will only be that much better. Best wishes and never loose the dream!

Will

[perryinva]

Excellent reply whs. 2 things to add. Only YOU can determine your priorities. At 23 I bought a brand new 1983 944 for $21k after owning a 77 Scirroco I bought after getting my engineering degree. I was SO sure I earned it. I was making good money, (back then $37k a year was great). Stupidest move I ever made. I was SO sure that I would have that car forever, and my income would just rocket yp....at that age, you are just SO sure of yourself. That car (and 2 divorces later) honestly put my house plans & retirement savings back by 10 years. At 50, I can say that I wish I never bought that car, I'd have had my 996 years ago...but back then all I can remember is doing 120 on the UP of Michigan, with a grin I couldn't wipe off and getting laid by every nice looking girl I met, and there is no doubt the car helped a LOT. At 23 I was shallow, cocky, and full of myself but you could never have convinced me of it. I never thought to "justify" whether the car was a good move or not. The 944 was THE hot sports car to get and I wanted one. Maybe when I'm 60, I'll look back and laugh and remember it differently, but for now (since my own son will not take any hard earned advice from me) remember that cars are vastly depreciating THINGS, that only stroke your ego. They don't last and can't make you happy. Once you have your financial and real house in order, then if you are still on the great income track you appear to be on, go for it. I was almost 40 before I made that kind of money, and only WISH I had listened when others told me to save young & let time do the work, instead of busting my *** playing catch up and as fate would have it missing most of the tech boom, because I just didn't have much money to invest. At 50, the $33k I spent on this car is by far the most I ever spent, but not near as costly (relative to my income) as that 944 was. One side of you says "You're only young once, live life at the edge, tomorrow will take care of itself" but I can tell you that the other side, when your 50 and you know you'll be working and saving until your 62+, says "Man, that was SO not worth it"..

The other advice is that every state is different in how they regulate aftermarket warranties. You have to find out who is good and works inYOUR state (assuming you're in the US). Ask the Porsche mechanic you would be using or other high end service place if there is someone they REALLY know will pay. I can tell you that Continental Warranty SUCKS THE BIG ONE, and will weasel out of any expensive repair with the usual "no seals or hoses are covered, or parts that fail because of a failure of those parts or uncovered parts". The way I look at it, if a decent AMW costs $3500, then you're almost halfway to paying for the repair ANYWAY, so just put the money aside, and if you never use it (which is what the warranty company is betting on) you're WAY ahead.

[mikop1]

Lightfall,

I had my 996 03 C2" for five months now. and i could not just put it to words, but it is a pleasure owning one. I bought the car 350 miles away from home. Flew in with my buddy paid for it and drove it home. I tell you it was one of the most exciting driving experience we ever had. I usually sleep in in a six hour drive. This time I was awake and amazed how this car just handles, accelarates, and everything about it. Before I purchased the car there where other great cars on the lot and my buddy tried to talk me out of the 996 and get the 5 series or the E500 sport or the 7 series instead. I stick with what I wanted and after the drive with him. He was glad I did not listen and he himself fell in love with Porsches.

I had someone ask me recently. Is it worth paying for the car? I was actually proud to say yes it is worth every bit of it. Everyone one I took for a drive loves it, a couple will be trading their cars and the others are dreaming to get one. 6 of us owns one now and the girls whewww.........unbelievable they love it. I tell ya your image will change.

The fact is most worries never happens. If it breaks down I'm sure it will be expensive like a lot of other cars. But The trill, the pleasure the excitement, the joy that you will experince is priceless. I suggest find one get behind the wheel and see how you feel.

Before the 996 I purchased and owned an Audi A4. Before buying it I was comparing it to a newer lower mileage Mitsubishi Gallant(my brother wanted me to get instead) I asked everyone including my own brother before I bought it. Most of them told me to not get it, Audi had some issues before, high maintenance, it breaks down, parts are expensive etc. etc. but one person told me he would buy the Audi if it is him. Out of all the negatives I was surrounded with. I listened to the only one that likes what i like which is the Audi.

To make a long story short.

I've used that car abuse it, exploit it and put on over 160k miles and it's still going. Happy and Lucky to say no major problems with the car still has the original clutch. I've replaced one hose(radiator)m, brakes, tires but thats about it. Oh yes i upgraded the suspension and wheels. Imagine I was bored I don't have to fix anything on the car. It is a fun car!

Good Luck!

[Lightfall]

Thank you for the thoughtful replies - I really need to think about this a lot. Almost everyone has been extremely helpful in helping me make up my mind about things, and in offering useful information. It really helps to get this perspective.

[KevinMac]

So you are unhappy making 105K at 25 years of age. Boy think there is a fundamental problem here. First off if you really do make $105k per year this car is affordable. But it seems from the tone of your post you have other financial issues or you would not have posted what you did!

I just don't get it!

[stickshiftnz]

Lightfall,

I'll post a reply similar to two others I've posted elsewhere in this blog. I'm aiming to get a Boxster someday, second hand, unless I win First Division Lotto (in which case it'll be Guards Red, Cocoa Top, Beige interior; or Meteor Gray, Metropol Blue top, Blue or Beige interior). Yes, all cars have their faults, they're far more complicated these days.

But there's only a threshold of comfort you can be happy with. The periodically-repeating problem which is easy and reasonably cheap to fix, you can put up with. But the rare, and seriously (financially) debilitating problem is not something to take lightly. Some people could take a $10K engine replacement like it was a mosquito bite; to others it's far more serious. A warranty is the way to go, I'd certainly do that.

You are well within reason to expect a very expensive car to be good AND dependable. Certainly, Rolex wouldn't be where it is if they sold watches at $10K and the movement fails for no reason and you need to spend $5K on a new one, not knowing if it will happen again. The odd diamond that falls off the "12" is probably just a matter of new glue, but you can live with that once in a while, if you're really wanting a Rolex.

People are like cars. You don't want to marry someone just because she knows how to cook. You want to marry someone you really like. But if you're not James Bond or a Green Beret, if you can't tell if a girl you'll marry will try to stab you in bed one odd evening for no logical or apparent reason, because some of her relatives have done so, maybe for now stay single. Until they discover medication for it. Or take up Karate.

Good luck, and may you find the "girl" of your dreams, and a very good sansei. And live happily ever after.

[Lightfall]

No, I am very happy with my pay, elated even, new job...sigh, again, I am trying to determine if I can make a 996 fit within my budget/priorities. A 996 with a blown engine wouldn't, a 996 with a blown engine and a good warranty would; what is so unusual about that? :/ It wouldn't fit because I have to save up for a downpayment on a house, I have student loans to pay off and between those two and paying for a vehicle there isn't much room.

[stickshiftnz]

Therefore, do what is most pressing, if you can't have both. But keep a healthy interest in Porsches. Keep reading these forums and be aware of any developments. But go for your house deposit and student loan, you won't regret it. Porsche will be around. The time isn't right, but nothing stops you from standing behind a fence looking in.

[Lightfall]

Good advice, good advice. I will be lurking on these boards for the right time to strike.

[PeterC4]

So you are unhappy making 105K at 25 years of age. Boy think there is a fundamental problem here. First off if you really do make $105k per year this car is affordable. But it seems from the tone of your post you have other financial issues or you would not have posted what you did!

I just don't get it!

I get it. Spending 50K or so on a used sports car which could equate to half your annual salary and might have some repair issues is not such an easy decision and shouldn't be just viewed as affordable.

Lightfall, I think these cars are a privilege to own and provide owners with a great driving experience. I also think the repair issues and engine failure issues are exaggerated. I would look to a 2002 or later model year as the engine design was changed and reportedly has fewer issues. Also, a Porsche Certified Pre-Owned Car will come with a 2 year warranty covering most major mishaps. I have had a 2000 C4 and now own a 2004 C4S. Both cars ran great with no major issues. At this stage in my life, no doubt like many owners in this forum, a major issue for me would be annoying but not a financial back breaker so when I purchased my cars these considerations were not in my thinking at all. Whs's post is a good one and I would reiterate his comments. Good luck.

[kurtkrum]

Lightfall:

I just bought my first Porsche this past November. I had all the same feelings that you did, and was very unsure of the financial commitment I was about to make. I bought a 996 C4S with 43K miles on it. I love this car but only have one regret: I wish I would have done this sooner.

I had been dreaming about a Porsche since I was a kid in high school. I spent so much darn money on boats, motorcycles, jet skis, and other toys. I should have just done it sooner. I am 38. Dont wait that long. Do it now.

Just make sure that any car you buy comes with a full set of maintenance records that shows the vehicles history, and consider getting an indie mechanic to give it a look-see.

Everything you will ever do comes with risk. One day you will get a flat, you will have a fender-bender, you could even have a major mechanical problem. You should look at all of those potential misfortunes as an opportunity to modify your car and make it even faster and cooler. :D

I envy you, as your are young but smart enough to get into this over 10 years before I did.

Go for it dude, and dont be afraid to ask advice to the folks on this board who have LOTS of knowledge from which others can learn.

[aintpatricksday]

Here's some of the best advice I ever got - YMMV.

I always apply the 60/40 rule when deciding if I can afford something:

60% of gross income must cover all recurring monthly expenses including taxes, housing, food, car, insurance, gas, power, phone,etc etc. things you NEED to get by.

The other 40% is split into 4 categories:

10% retirement savings

10% long term savings/investment (this is where down payment for your house will come from)

10% short term savings/emergency fund/new engine for the Porsche haha

10% fun/screwing around/travelling etc.

This can be difficult when you are younger, but once you have a good emergency fund built up (6-12 mos of all the 60% stuff -not including taxes- depending on how stable you are, single vs dual income etc) you can cut this back somewhat and apply some of it to your retirement or to having more fun, or saving money for a house or a business. For me, cars and motorcycles are what I do for fun so I might cheat a little and steal some fun money for a Porsche too :) Someone here made a great point about opportunities and cash. When you are broke all the time, opportunities just pass you by. When you have some money together, they seem to appear out of the woodwork. There are a couple of times when I definitely would have been very wealthy if I hadn't been broke when an opportunity arose. There will be others. PB

[geoffbaltz]

It sounds like the time may not be right for you to take the plunge. You're young, get a plan and set some goals and eventually you'll reach success.

When I first got my 996, I hated the comments that some people would make. "You make too much money" "You charge us too much" "Must be nice" "I wish I could afford such a nice car"

People still make them. But it wasn't until my father told me something that made me not care about the comments any more: "What do they know? It's not a symbol of making too much money or being rich, it's a symbol of success and the people that understand that have respect, not envy."

So, go buy the Accord, save your money and get on the road to success.

-g

[gandrade1]

It sounds like the time may not be right for you to take the plunge. You're young, get a plan and set some goals and eventually you'll reach success.

When I first got my 996, I hated the comments that some people would make. "You make too much money" "You charge us too much" "Must be nice" "I wish I could afford such a nice car"

People still make them. But it wasn't until my father told me something that made me not care about the comments any more: "What do they know? It's not a symbol of making too much money or being rich, it's a symbol of success and the people that understand that have respect, not envy."

So, go buy the Accord, save your money and get on the road to success.

-g

Congrats on your success. I am also young and, after reading your sincere intro, I was expecting some constructive advice rather than just 'go buy the Accord'. What about a 2003/2004 Boxster - an excellent entry level Porsche with minor issues if you get those MYs. They are around 30k. You can, also, easily get a warranty!

Obviously, the topic starter (a prion BMW M owner) is looking for a sports car and not a Japanese, mid-size, sedan... While I appreciate your honesty, I find your comments a little off-topic.

All the best,

Gus

[geoffbaltz]

We are not talking about the Boxster. Yes, your comments are correct about the Boxster.

I don't believe my comments were off topic. Lightfall opened the door about buying a 911 at the current stage in his life and if it was a smart thing for him to do. It soon became more than him not being sure about the reliability of the engine in the 996.

I was just trying to give the young lad some advice. It's OK, I was young and stupid at one time in my life too! (No offense lightfall :-))

"If I knew then what I know now."............You don't get it - I wasn't telling him to buy a Japanese mid-sized sedan.

Lightfall - Go for it! Finance the used 996 over 7 years and cross your fingers that the thing doesn't have any problems and you can afford a $1200 water pump replacement, a $2500 clutch job, $1500 AC compressor, $200 oil changes, etc, etc. Isn't that what being a young American in the new millenium is all about?

Cheers.

Edited April 13, 2008 by geoffbaltz

[rrspikemarty]

<snip>... as a young professional who moves every 4 months around the country and has one daily driver and only makes 105k a year ... <snip>

hmmmm...we all should be so lucky, i think. You're a very luck young professional. i have never made anything close to 6 figures in my entire working life of over 30 years. I'm not wealthy by any stretch, but **** it, I'm going to buy a porsche here fairly soon. :D