DE Wear & Tear Problems

[eqs]

The dealer I bought from has various DE events and the question I have is that with new 19" tires and pushing the car to the limit, is this a bad and expensive idea. I've heard of some problems with major tire and brake wear and in some cases engine overheating. I don't want to abuse my car because I'm driving it close to its limits. The DME readouts currently reflect no stage 5/6 overrevs and only one stage 3 and 4 overrev which the dealer says is basically no overrevs as stage 1/2 overrevs are really not much of a concern if I understood the dealer correctly.

Are there others who have pushed their cars and have regretted it?

Edited May 17, 2008 by eqs

[jderianSF]

I can't address the over-rev issues you are worried about. But I also plan on d/e's and auto-x's, with stock 19"s.

What I did was to find someone who is selling a set of 17" rims with (or if you'd like to pick out your track tires -- without tires). I found some rims with very good Michelin street tires to use. So far with one auto-x, its been fine.

This saves the wear and tear on the 19s, and in the long run, real track tires are much cheaper in 17" sizes than 19".

[renzop]

When it comes to motorsports, tires are a consumable. Expect to wear out tires quickly if you autox or DE. I also recommend that you get another set of wheels and tires. 17" or 18" are better and cheaper. Keep the expensive 19" for the street. Expect to go through one or more sets of tires per season. Figure it into your racing budget.

Also for DEs brake pads and rotors are wear items. Expect to go through one set per year. I would buy a second set of pads and take them to the track.I would not worry about the abuse the car is going to take. After all Porsche promotes motorsports events. If you drive within your limits you should not be abusing the car.

You should, however, recognize that DEs and to a lesser extent autox are a risk to your car and your life. If you are not willing to accept the risks you probably should not do it. If you plan to do DEs you should be asking yourself if you could write off the car if its totalled. There is a decent chance that accidents on track will not be covered by your insurance and you might bear the burden of the expense yourself.

All that said, it is very unlikely that you should run into problems at an autox and not too likely that you will have problems at a DE. But all you have to do is search youtube for "HPDE accident" to see examples. Here's one that's a good lesson:

I am not trying to scare you away but I believe that conciously understanding the risks and accepting them is important before you start.

Regards,

Alan

[eqs]

Thank you very much for your excellent replies, your comments make perfect sense. The video shows how quickly things can go wrong and cars being pushed on a track (or on the road) allow only so much latitude to effect corrections (PSM can only do so much). The video actually told me how much respect you have to have when pushing your car and always be careful. Driving carefully was a common phrase from dealers and experts and now I can see why.

Your comments did not scare me away, but they did wake me up to the reality that you really do have to be careful at all times as these machines do have a fair amount of power and can get you moving at a good clip before you know it.

Drive careful, yes this is good advice - we're all lucky to be driving such enjoyable cars.

Anyways, thanks. :)

Edited May 17, 2008 by eqs

[eqs]

After reading Renzop's excellent comments, I contacted my car insurer and they informed me that DE events are not covered under my policy. Is there any type of car insurance available when you go to a closed track event for advanced driver training? It appears that there may be a potentially large personal liability claim/issue if something happened to another party and no one was covered - this aside from damage costs to yourself or your vehicle. Any comments?

[djantlive]

you can forget about insurance at track. almost no one has it.

[gandrade1]

When it comes to motorsports, tires are a consumable. Expect to wear out tires quickly if you autox or DE. I also recommend that you get another set of But all you have to do is search youtube for "HPDE accident" to see examples. Here's one that's a good lesson:

I am not trying to scare you away but I believe that conciously understanding the risks and accepting them is important before you start.

Hi Alan,

So what is the lesson here - what went wrong?

What are the chances that an instructor will suggest we take a turn as quickly as the guy in the film did, if our line is not consistent?

I did get a little scared...And this driver seems to have flipped over very easily!

Best,

Gus

Edited April 24, 2008 by gandrade1

[eqs]

It appears that the driver had oversteer and skidding problems near the apex and he tried to countersteer to correct. His line was too fast and straight. The right front wheel then went over the corner hump and unweighted that side of the car which lead to the driver's side catching causing the flip. I would have hoped for a spin instead, but I guess the speed and the unweighting were too much and the track/asphalt too grabby.

Can some other experienced guys chime in on this topic. What are your takes? Maybe we can get some comments from driving instructors or racecar drivers?

Cheers :)

Edited May 17, 2008 by eqs

[Topless]

When it comes to motorsports, tires are a consumable. Expect to wear out tires quickly if you autox or DE. I also recommend that you get another set of But all you have to do is search youtube for "HPDE accident" to see examples. Here's one that's a good lesson:

I am not trying to scare you away but I believe that conciously understanding the risks and accepting them is important before you start.

Hi Alan,

So what is the lesson here - what went wrong?

What are the chances that an instructor will suggest we take a turn as quickly as the guy in the film did, if our line is not consistent?

I did get a little scared...And this driver seems to have flipped over very easily!

Best,

Gus

Looks like a classic mistake in a 911. He turned in too early, too hot, ran out of room and lifted off the throttle mid turn. A sure spin. Once he was going backwards out in the weeds the car tripped and rolled. Limerock is a demanding course with very little runoff room. Maybe these lessons are better learned on a wet skidpad or a large parking lot with only orange cones as obstacles. Running our cars on a track is big fun. You just always gotta remember... STUFF HAPPENS. Never never lift in mid turn.