Are 986 boxster engines prone to blowing out?

[830]

Hi guys,

i was about to pay the downs for a 01 boxster S when i stumbled upon this forum.

> http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/porsche/porsche_boxster/

it seems like a gazillion boxster owners owners has their engiens reduced to junk! not even rebuildable engines! They just seem to blow out under normal usage. even if the engine was somehow pushed before the blowout, i would not expect a blowout at those mileages. I dont believe many people would buy such a high performance car and drive below speed limits all the time.

can anyone comment on the comments in that thread?

is the boxster engine from 97-2004 flawed interms of alloy strength?

i am so lost now. please advice

[White987S]

You hear of a high occurance record on Forums like this because active Porsche enthusiests come here to talk about the good along with the bad. More often than not, it is about a problem, and that person is looking for advice & help. Even a place to vent. Many "good news" stories get missed every day. Human nature.

For every one Forum member here, there are 10's or 100's of Porsche owners who don't use these internet sites. I think Porsche claims that more than 60% of their vehicles are still on the road.

Do our cars go BANG? Sure, sometimes. Honda and Toyotas go BANG too. Keep reading. Learn. Ask qustions, and you will find a car that will be great for you. If it breaks, ya fix it.

[rsfeller]

Most people who are not techie or shade-tree mechanics that are surfing the boards looking for dependability on a given car are going to always be scared into paralysis by analysis. By definition most tech boards are ways for the general public or DIY'r mechanics to get inside information on others on how to fix common items that are ridiculously expensive at the dealer. Don't get me wrong I have been swayed from one engine to another in a given model on the used market due to dependability issues on forums but I'm also someone who has been on a forum for years getting opinions from people that I know and respect.

For those who are simply stumbling in reading for research they will seen nothing but bad things...

With that said I see those who post on the boards I frequent for Saabs, vw and Porsches of those looking to buy and being scared by all the negative things they read. People seldom post to a board because they are wanting to tell everyone how perfect their car is running.

Now add in this information to the fact many Porsche are run hard even for daily driving and there seems to be many people commenting on blown engines. I also think the type of people who buy these cars are questionable to, but that is another post.

Additionally these engines are not known for being rebuilt. Porsche has a history of replacing and most tech shops are just not into rebuilding anymore on newer Porsche engines. When these starting getting older more may comment on rebuilds but for now these are rather techie engines for shade tree mechanics from what I read.

I've been on this board for about two years after buying a 1997 with 65K miles. I've seen very few rant about severely damaged engines from daily driving compared to other boards on other models. I see the same amount of common failure items on my Porsche as other models I drive.

[phillipj]

Wow,

That is a really scary forum. I can't believe that so many Boxster motors blew up. Many with under 25k on the clock!!!!!

The days of a motor actually "blowing up" under normal usage should have been over many years ago.

If I were one of the many boxster owners I would seriously try to band together (legally) and make Porsche own up to this. They would hate the publicity. If people don't speak up nothing will be done.

Porsche's "There is no substitute" moto doesn't fly too well when your very expensive toy blows up right after you buy it. :censored:

I personally love my 996. It has been a very trouble free car for me. I would buy another one in a heartbeat.

Am I taking this Boxster thread too seriously? It just really irks me when Porsche owners think that their car failing is "okay" because it's a Porsche.

I don't think it's okay.

I have been around race cars all my life. My father was a car owner, engine builder and chief mechanic. From top Fuel drag cars to Indy cars to Can Am cars (Early days). When engines failed it was because the engines were being pushed to the limit for long periods of time and some small part failed. This was acceptable because it was racing.

I doubt that all of these Porsche failures had engines being "pushed to the limit" constantly. Driving to work?????

What do others here think about this?

:renntech:

Phillipj

Edited March 23, 2008 by phillipj

[grover]

As one of the people on that forum pointed out:

The engines are very well designed and manufactured but modern production methods mean that - in all things - cars, motorcycles (washing machines included) production prices can be lowered if we accept that say one in a thousand fail - but the other 999 are superb. This keeps prices low and profits high - but is unfortunate for the 1 in the 1000. You cannot escape from this either or the product prices itself out of the market.

Although, I must say that massively expensive repairs are my #1 concern as a new Porsche owner. Weren't the most serious engine problems that plagued 98/99 models mostly eliminated in later model years?

Edited March 24, 2008 by grover

[pk2]

...

Although, I must say that massively expensive repairs are my #1 concern as a new Porsche owner. Weren't the most serious engine problems that plagued 98/99 models mostly eliminated in later model years?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the early years, there were some issues with the porosity of the blocks and trouble with sleeves do in part to temporary design change and poor metallurgy/processes. Those often could lead to to catastrophic failures. It's long technical story but by early 99 those problems were sorted out. In short though, up and into 99, it's either blown already and been replaced or, it's not likely to (thats what I'm banking on anyway).

I agree, German engineering dose seem like a farce at times with massive blunders. Ive experienced them in Mercedes, BMW's VW, etc, i mean endemic catastrophic stuff that should never see the light of day. Were you looking at an early Boxster I'd just throw the potential of a new motor into the equation.

With that said though, of the 30 odd cars I've owned, this is my absolute fave.

Regards, PK

[rsfeller]

PK, I though the issues you mention were ONLY with late year 98, so as you stated resolved by 99 but does exempt 97 from everything I have researched.

Shawn

[grover]

Granted, I didn't real all the posts in that forum, but the majority seems to be 98 models with low miles. So, the lesson seems to be... avoid 98 models with low miles! And early 99s. And as a general rule of thumb, the first model year of any car.

So... 2008 987 anyone? :D

Edited March 24, 2008 by grover

[830]

I guess we can generalize that the later models (post 99) ones should have been spick and span. The scary thing is if anyone of you read the later posts ... cars up til 04 blew! contacted a specialist here and he said in Malaysia where i come from, he has only done one 996 which had leaky block. otherwise all the boxsters and 996s were alrite.

He attributes it the fact that cars here are generally not modded to the brim and not trashed to the edge. cars here are expensive so we take care of them even on track days. (i'm speaking for myself and others who make a comfortable living and not the absurdly rich ones, hehehe)

what say u guys?

[stickshiftnz]

I've been reading through these Porsche forums for just under a year now, as I was hoping to eventually buy a second-hand Boxster. Being a car freak and owning 5 used Audis in the past, I am well aware that all cars will have their faults or common problems. More often than not, after a few years, a model's common problems become apparent, and normally the cause for it is diagnosed, be it a faulty batch of parts, a shorter life span for a part than expected, or a repair/maintenance procedure which is not carried out properly.

I'm aware that a few years after some car makers fitted 120K km cambelts, many of them fail prematurely and you simply need to change it every 60K km (expensive, but cheaper than an engine). Some cars that have water pumps with plastic impellers will need them changed as a precaution at 100K km/5 years or something. Most common problems found can be circumvented by either precaution (albeit at a cost of newer parts installed sooner than initially expected) or fitting the redesigned part at the next opportunity.

The Boxster, on the other hand, from my non-expert observation, appears to NOT have the common problems that lesser cars have, despite having the same parts suppliers -- no batches of faulty coils/fuel pumps/ABS units, no water pump or thermostat design problems, no ECU's that seem to burn out prematurely for no apparent reason. No automatic gearbox design problems either. The common parts are not as expensive as one imagines either, and for most repairs, access to the part is usually the cause of an expensive labour bill.

The most common nuisance is perhaps the Rear Main Seal, which though expensive to put right, is not a matter of life or death. The one single problem that can happen for which no cause could be pinpointed accurately, is the intermediate shaft failure (or is it the bearing of the shaft?) From what it appears, it is not an inevitability in owning a Boxster, and it is not as common even as an RMS leak. But because its failure has no warning and no precaution can be taken, plus the only solution is an eye-gougingly expensive engine replacement, I would feel better if I could improve my chances of avoiding it, by observing, reading, researching, and keeping tabs of the matter. Had this been a normal car (even an Audi) where a snapped cambelt could cost NZ$5K in repairs, at least it's contained at that. I've once mentioned that this intermediate shaft problem is one I liken to cot death (sudden infant death syndrome).

I'm not giving up on a Boxster someday just because of this.

[mikefocke]

You have a good understanding of the issues

And the price of the engine replacement and Porsche's not fixed even in the 987 attitude is infuriating to those who experience the few IMS failures.

There is a company that claims to have a fix that can be installed at some cost to prevent the problem. IIRC, it involves some modifications to the parts at the end of the shaft. http://www.autofarm.co.uk/engines/water_cooled/shaft_tech

Edited March 25, 2008 by mikefocke

[830]

thanks guys,

just so you guys know, i have decided to take a chance at owning a boxster and paid the deposit. fingers crossed .. hopefully not the intermediate shaft. wish me luck. will keep you guys updated on my experiences .. i survive it. hehe

take care and thanks again

[rsfeller]

Gang,

This discussion has had me thinking...

Has this site or any others done poll questions to try to get some history on common issues?

I have been seriously thinking about updating my old automotive tech websites to a newer web product (joomla based) to post all my documents and opinions. One of the features that I would think would be great is the poll question functionality. I'm not considering giving Loren a run for his money with forums or such but between my Vw, Saab and now Porsche projects I would love to know questions such as:

Q: Have you experienced RMS leaks?

A. Yes, on my 2.5L

B. No, on my 2.5L

C. Yes, on my 2.7L

D. No, on my 2.7L

I know it's not a perfect sample but it would be interesting to post questions from time to time.

There are alteast a dozen common issues I would love to know how frequent they are amount posters to this site.

Thoughts? Been there done that on another site? Useless data?

I've set up and example here, ignore all the test text: http://carboncow.net/www2

[Loren]

Gang,

This discussion has had me thinking...

Has this site or any others done poll questions to try to get some history on common issues?

I have been seriously thinking about updating my old automotive tech websites to a newer web product (joomla based) to post all my documents and opinions. One of the features that I would think would be great is the poll question functionality. I'm not considering giving Loren a run for his money with forums or such but between my Vw, Saab and now Porsche projects I would love to know questions such as:

Q: Have you experienced RMS leaks?

A. Yes, on my 2.5L

B. No, on my 2.5L

C. Yes, on my 2.7L

D. No, on my 2.7L

I know it's not a perfect sample but it would be interesting to post questions from time to time.

There are alteast a dozen common issues I would love to know how frequent they are amount posters to this site.

Thoughts? Been there done that on another site? Useless data?

I've set up and example here, ignore all the test text: http://carboncow.net/www2

Anyone can start a Poll here.

If you want the Poll to be on the front page of the site you need to ask me to do that - but any topic can have a poll.

[stickshiftnz]

If you decided on creating a poll, there is one advantage for Porsche/s vs. other cars: limited variety of mechanical variants will give a more realistic statistical sampling.

A B5 Audi A4, for instance, has something like 10 petrol/gasoline engine variants plus X number of manual and automatic gearboxes around the world. A 986 Boxster, however, has practically two engines (S and non-S), and two gearboxes (manual + automatic). So any problems logged that includes details as vehicle year, mileage when it happened (first/subsequently) can be easily compared. We just might learn something from it.

BTW, just re: Mike Focke's post, I've read that sometime ago, that solution for the Intermediate Shaft problem. Without double-checking, I think that's one solution which is still under observation (waiting to see from experience, that is, if it will hold for good). Elsewhere, I have read of another observational fix where a metal plate has been placed somewhere in the engine hear where the seal/bearing is, where it is assumed oil is being thrown at it at very high pressure from the chain (or something), possibly causing a premature wear. Can't remember where I read it though.

Given that Porsche keeps upgrading parts including several renditions of the coolant tank and fits them ASAP instead of waiting for facelift opportunities, I reckon that with respect to the intermediate shaft/bearing problem, even they don't really know what is causing it. That, or the only fix would be a total engine redesign, which they can't afford to just do. And then again, their next step is a direct-injection engine, presumably to meet environmental regulations, so perhaps they might add some new-found IMS or RMS fix.

[smiledrs]

Mine went out in Aug 2007. Had 22,100 miles and was a 1998. Needless to say, PNA denied their was a problem and refused to help out with any type of financial support. The Nov 2007 issue of Road and Track I think, talks about the Boxster and it's known engine problems. They even said tha the "CEL" check engine light actually means "Change Engine Light" because so many engine failures were seen in the early models. I went ahead and wound up putting a 3.4 996 engine in there and had it for 2 months and it's running fine with the 1/3 gain in HP. If ever someone was able to get a lawsuit going, count me in. It's ridiculous that the engine can't even make it to it's 1st scheduled maintanence of 30k miles.

Edited April 1, 2008 by smiledrs

[seafeye]

Mine went out in Aug 2007. Had 22,100 miles and was a 1998. Needless to say, PNA denied their was a problem and refused to help out with any type of financial support. The Nov 2007 issue of Road and Track I think, talks about the Boxster and it's known engine problems. They even said tha the "CEL" check engine light actually means "Change Engine Light" because so many engine failures were seen in the early models. I went ahead and wound up putting a 3.4 996 engine in there and had it for 2 months and it's running fine with the 1/3 gain in HP. If ever someone was able to get a lawsuit going, count me in. It's ridiculous that the engine can't even make it to it's 1st scheduled maintanence of 30k miles.

Mine got replaced at 30k. The porsche dealership in Charlotte did the replacement. This was done while the previous owner had the car. The dealership told me that the previous owner had driven the car while it was overheating. After some back and forth the dealership put a remanufactured motor in. I have no idea if Porsche split the bill. I feel safe with the reman. I think that the people in the US know how to put them back together better than the factory.

Edited April 2, 2008 by seafeye