Rear Main Seal leaking

[ssflai]

ssflai what was the final damage$ ?

Two arms and one leg. 48000 kim service cost $1250, RMS $1250, Intermediate Shaft Seal $150 (labor included), Clutch $800 (labor included). total damage is $3450 - 10% discount.= -$3200 CAD before tax. Now, I have 2 years warranty from now on and I am wishing the RMS will leak right before the warranty expire. :P

Steven

Edited March 28, 2008 by ssflai

[White987S]

My dealer quoted $1450 for the RMS alone. Note that I have a '97 tip w/ less than 2K miles. My question, I have a dealer acknowledgement from the original owner about the slow dribble from the RMS when under warranty. Will Porsche US comp the parts? Appreciate comments from anyone that has delt with the similar issue.

Thanks,

Chris

Chris, your car is 11 years old. The warranty is over. Porsche ain't gonna comp any parts. Why should they? You need to drive that Garage Queen more! :) Did you say 2,000 miles on a 1997? You must have a small garage! :D

[wweirich]

If it were my car, I would replace the RMS and clutch.

That is exaclty what I did. RMS, per service bulletin, intermediate seal, and a total Clutch kit.... AND got the CV boots changed, just becuase rubber is rubber, and time (age) is the key there, not miles. '01 886, S model. The dealer that sold me the car, is sending us 500 USD to offset the RMS fix (which includes the threaded bolts SB change as well, minor parts there...). All in all, its a 2700 ticket for all of this. Cheap, compared to Aircraft repair. We're used to being rode hard, and put away wet - in the PM Department. Question for you all: What is the likelyhood of reoccurance? If this comes up again in 12,000 miles, the car is hitting the auction block.

[ssflai]

Amazing...................... after 3 days of sitting in the garage, I found drips again on my garage floor and a cloud of smoke came out when I first start the car. My credit card bill is not even here yet from the last damage. Any thoughts ? Is is the RMS, IMS or anything else this time ? The drips that i found came is located in the same area (underneath the engine).

[RFM]

Going back to the dealer is the best you can do in my opinion.

[pokey]

I have a family member who's a Porsche Service Manager and he tells me he hasnt been seeing many RMS failures these days. He speculates that the engineered part that was installed for repairs may have finally resolved it. (I think there were several iterations of engineering on the part). My car (2000S) had a few RMS repairs during the first 4 years (prior owner), but has been good for about 4 years now.

I had to replace the RMS within about 6 months of buying the car and the local dealer quoted about 12 hours labor. My relative said his best tech could do it in 4 hours or so and was stunned at the 12 hour quote. He told one of his techs and they had a hardy laugh. (You may be wondering why I didn't take the car to his shop . . . unfortunately he's half way across the country from me). In the end I got the work covered under warranty since it had been done by another dealership less than a year before, but I had to escalate the issue to the regional guy. I think the local dealer loves RMS jobs because they their effective billing rate is 2 to 3 times their $110 per hour once they inflate the labor hours. Anyway I found a local independent that works only on P cars. They don't have leather chairs, plasma TVs, and perky advisors, but they're honest and reliable.

[dwoeste]

So what is a reasonable price to replace a RMS? I just noticed some oil spots on the garage floor. Reading all the forums, I suspect it's a RMS. The spot is about the size of a quarter. The RMS was replaced in 2001 by the original owner. I'm not sure of the mileage at that point but I'm guessing <10K.

If it is the RMS, what else should be replaced while they are in there?

Could this be the result of teaching my son how to drive a stick shift and he is having the typical issues?

1999 996 Cabriolet

38K miles

[cbbepop]

I was quoted 2000 for a RMS leak by my local dealer. The broke down was 250 for cleaning and diagnostic and 14 so hours for repair at $125 per hour

...and yes my warranty was up. I took it to an independent shop who stopped the leak for $350.

This weekend I noticed a few drops on the garage floor and I started to measure the rate of the leak by putting a cardboard underneath it. Looks like a drop every day or every other day....

Tsk Tsk...may have to take it into the dealer and have them do it after all... :(

[rsfeller]

So what was the so called leak fix for $350, thicker oil?

[cbbepop]

So what was the so called leak fix for $350, thicker oil?

For me - They replaced 2 seals (name begins with an O ring)

Seemed to have stopped it for 3 months till now.

Thinking back - I think the RMS leak started for me shortly after my family member filled the car up with regular unleaded instead of 93....hmmm but I don't know for certain, could just be a coincidence seeing as how many RMS leaks there are

[pokey]

The cause of the RMS problem has been subject to some speculation, but unless we can get a Porsche engineer to crack and fess up we'll never know for sure. It is clearly the result of some poor engineering rather than anything that the owners do to their cars. Over the years Porsche has issued a few revised seals and a tool for checking shaft alignment and possibly they've solved it or reduced the frequency of occurance. There is a school of thought that the way the trans is secured in the mid-engine cars is a contributing issue. When going in to replace the RMS seal it is common to replace the intermediate shaft seal at the same time.

[ssflai]

Quick update: Just got my car back again from Downtown Porsche and the "leaked" was due to residual from the last repair and now, they've confirmed that there is no leak. Now, I am a happy camper :D

[flyingpenguin]

Hi there,

Not wanting to ruin your day here, but the remark "residual leak" is BS.

Take a look at this DIY on RMS repair and judge for yourself; once the tranny is out, any decent tech should clean-up the mess left behind by leaking oil, clutch dust and other dirt.

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/996rms/rms1.php

Have they removed the tranny, clutch and flywheel and inspected the seal again, in order to be so sure it is not leaking?

Joost

[ssflai]

Hi there,

Not wanting to ruin your day here, but the remark "residual leak" is BS.

Take a look at this DIY on RMS repair and judge for yourself; once the tranny is out, any decent tech should clean-up the mess left behind by leaking oil, clutch dust and other dirt.

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/996rms/rms1.php

Have they removed the tranny, clutch and flywheel and inspected the seal again, in order to be so sure it is not leaking?

Joost

Not sure if they have disassembled the tranny to inpect the leak. However, I will continue to monitor if leaking is continuing and if so, I will haunt them again since I have 2 yrs warranty on the RMS, Clutch and IMS repair. I will provide update in the next 3 to 4 weeks to report if leak persist.

[ssflai]

Just took the car out yesterday and guess what, it is leaking again or i shall say, it never stop leaking or it was never fixed properly. I found a small pool of oil on the garage floor again. I called another Porsche dealer (not the same one who fixed my car from last year) and will drop her off sometime this week to replace my rear tires and check out this notorious problem. I hope this is all cover by the 2 years warranty. :(

[ssflai]

Confirmed by Pfaff Porsche in Toronto that the leak is casued by RMS which was fixed last year and leaked again 3 days right after being fixed by Downtown Porsche in Toronto and they've checked it again and claimed the leak was from the residual 2 months afte the fix. I think they are full of crap and thats why I didn't go back to them this time. Pfaff Porsche offers far better service compared to Downtown Porsche in terms of professionalism and competence and this repair of course is under the 2 yrs warranty. I will continue to monitor the situation and keep you all posted and hopefully, it is good news from now on.

Steven

[dtownmil]

Ok, my 2000 with a 2.7 has a small leak, presume it's the RMS. If I keep an eye on it and it doesn't get worse, is that ok? It seems to leak after I've driven it then kind of stops leaking. The spot on the ground is like quarter sized and doesn't seem to get larger over time. I have not changed my oil yet, but may consider a heavier weight when I do.

So, is a slight RMS leak ok? Thanks. ;)

2000

5 spd

58K

[RFM]

The oil leak from the RMS will destroy the clutch in time, it's your decision.

[ssflai]

Its been two weeks now. No drip so far and I hope this is the end of it. I highly suspect that Downtown Porsche in Toronto is either incapable or incompetence of not fixing the problem on purpose for that the owner will return to them in a later day by either fixing it at the owner's expense or claim it under warranty. One thing i don't quite understand is, I paid Downtown Porsche for the last repair and I got the most recent repair through Pfaff Porsche under warranty, does Pfaff Porsche claims this job to Porsche Head office directly or to Downtown Porsche. If it went straight to Porsche head office, will Porsche head office go back to Downtown Porsche and challenge them with the situation ?

[stephen wilson]

Not to be contrary, but the leak would have to be fairly bad to actually wet the clutch lining. The oil runs down the block and back-side of the flywheel, then out the bottom "drain". I just replaced a badly leaking RMS on my Formula Ford, and the clutch was still dry. Besides, unless the clutch is very new, I'd replace it while things are apart anyway. I agree though, it should be fixed if it's more than a few drips.

[ssflai]

These pics were taken before the repair

[ssflai]

These pics were taken before the repair

It is leaking again ..... after four RMS and IMS (including the original ones installed in the car when new, one replaced by the previous owner under warranty and two in the last two years under my ownership), i am going in this Friday for diagnostic for the same problem again. Frankly, i don't think it will go away, my 2 years warranty on this fix will be up soon, this problem didn't go away and I don't think it will. What if it leaks again after this up coming fix and the warranty is out ? I truly think this is a scam now.

[rsfeller]

Although I have been following this thread and no longer have a Boxster, I'll add this comment. Not sure of the true reason for the constant failure, but...

The best car I ever owned was a 1995 Saab 9000 CSE with a 2.3L 4cyl turbo. We just got rid of this car this last fall with 350,000 miles on it. Not because it every gave us issues, simply because I was sick of waiting for it to fail!

Point is that since I got it at 100K miles it always had a leak at the crank seal, we replaced it almost every time we were working in that area...my guess was at least 5-6 times! I only ever wanted it fixed due the mess it made on that side of the engine and a few leaks in my garage. My mechanic said it was simply a flaw in the crank with it having an imperfection on that end. Seems a bit odd that a flawed crank would not create more concerns...but it never did other then the leak. He argued that as the seal dryed and the crank pattern slowly wore the seal out of perfection. The leak was a function of time and seal age.

Maybe there could be a similar issue other then a bad RMS design.

[ssflai]

I don't drive this car often (weekend car) and I do store it for 3 to 4 months during iwnter time, do you think if i started the engine say once every 2 weeks will help the "dryed seal" ?

[RFM]

@ ssflai, in case of several RMS changes, use the factory instructions: 1) check with the special tool set if the crankshaft flange is placed exact in the middle of the crankcase, if not, replace the engine bloc. 2) if this is OK, place the updated seal using the special tools. Check also if the outer surfaces of the engine bloc (hole ware the seal fits) not have been damaged by removing the previous seals. Place in any case the seal without the tool, they will leak for sure after time.