Rear Main Seal leaking

[ssflai]

Hello,

I have just purchased a 2002 Boxster 2 weeks ago with 44000 km on it and i am the 3rd owner of the car. Accroding to the local dealer in Toronto (Downtown Porsche), the rear main seal was replaced 14 months ago under warranty and since then, approximately 4000 km were added. Yesterday, I found some drips on the garage floor and I brought the vehicle to Downtown Porsche (same dealer who fixed the RMS 14 moths ago) and the service advisor is suspecting the same problem is returned and advised that "there is no warranty on warranty" and thus, I am on my own. The job will cost approximately $1200 CAD and he said he will try to liaise with Porsche warranty administration and see if the repair cost can be split like 50/50 or 25/75 ..... and he will get back to me in the next 2 days. I have been searching the this forum and other forums and found that Boxster RMS is notouris and seems like Porsche is not taking reaponsibility of this defect or bad design. I am very upset with the situation due to the fact that the repair was done merely 14 mths ago with only 4000 kms added since the repair and the worst part is it seems to be a recurring issue down the orad. In addition, the 48000 km major tune up is due with another $1200 cost is expected...... now, my dream car became a night mare. :(

Steven

Edited March 16, 2008 by ssflai

[Loren]

Most dealers in the US will give you 2 years on an RMS replacement.

[White987S]

Steven, sorry to hear about your frustrations. You are not alone.

Did you do a Pre Purchase Inspection (PPI)? This may have saved you from buying this car, or you could have negotiated the repair into your purchase price.

RMS is common, as you stated. The price you are being quoted is also current. I would not get your hopes up for Porsche to cover any part of your repair cost. At best, the dealership might cut you a deal since they did the first repair. Did they also sell you the car?

This may not be the last RMS repair needed, if you keep the car for a few years. You might want to budget for this in the future.

It sounds like you did some good research about the Boxster...just a little too late in your purchase process.

Don't get too down on yourself and get buyers remorse. These are fun and rewarding cars. The RMS issue is part of the cost-of-ownership.

I'd much rather have a Porsche with an RMS issue than no Porsche at all! :)

[rsfeller]

a PPI would not helped him most likely if it was not leaking then!

To bad the RMS hasn't happened to a class action lawyer, or the ball would be rolling by now for us all. Then again we all would just get a $10 check for our troubles and the lawyer would make millions, but I digress.

Although the cost is $1200 retail the fact of the matter is that it's a $20 part and only labor to win good will. The Porsche dealer would only be out a dozen hours wholesale to the cost of the employee to take care of what needs to be a "good will" fix. How can they expect you to be a returned customer with such an experience.

To a non DIY'r a leaking RMS sounds like a major problem which can lead to major destruction.

Shawn

[White987S]

a PPI would not helped him most likely if it was not leaking then!

To bad the RMS hasn't happened to a class action lawyer, or the ball would be rolling by now for us all. Then again we all would just get a $10 check for our troubles and the lawyer would make millions, but I digress.

Although the cost is $1200 retail the fact of the matter is that it's a $20 part and only labor to win good will. The Porsche dealer would only be out a dozen hours wholesale to the cost of the employee to take care of what needs to be a "good will" fix. How can they expect you to be a returned customer with such an experience.

To a non DIY'r a leaking RMS sounds like a major problem which can lead to major destruction.

Shawn

Sorry, I disagree with you Shawn. He bought the car 2 weeks ago. It was leaking then, as it is leaking now. I think a good mechanic would have found it, or know the tell-tale signs.

I think there would be a class action, if the numbers were there. Not gunna happen.

How much do you earn in 12 hours? Are you willing to work for free tomorrow? I didn't think so. Why should Porsche? Or anyone for that matter. Should they cut the guy good deal? Yes. There is an equitable solution here. Through a good negotiation, it can be reached.

I do agree with your last sentence! :)

Edited March 16, 2008 by White987S

[phillipj]

Habe to lean to the side of "Dealers S*ck" on this one. That is just wrong that you should have to pay again for an RMS that was just replaced. My mechanic would stand by his work if this was my car.

Phillipj

[White987S]

Habe to lean to the side of "Dealers S*ck" on this one. That is just wrong that you should have to pay again for an RMS that was just replaced. My mechanic would stand by his work if this was my car.

Phillipj

Phillipj, the work was completed 14 months ago. We know nothing about how the car was maintained or driven. At what point is the mechanic who did the work no longer responsible? A year? 2?? 10???

It's a car. They break. You fix them and then move on.

[blinkwatt]

As long as it doesnt leak more than a quarter size of oil a week I wouldn't worry. Just top it off until you need a new clutch,flywheel or so on. Don't take it to a stealership to get it done. Go to a P-Car indy shop,they will have experience with replacing r.m.s.,save yourself the $.

[RFM]

ssflai

Your dealer is right " there is no warranty on warranty " but this is only for the parts ( same issue within 24 months ), for the labour on the contrary he have to take contact with the Porsche importer. I'm sure that even for the part an arrangement can be discussed because the special situation ( 4.000 km. ) and a well known history of the car. The only negative point is the age of the car, anyway, the result of the operation looks badly. I don't no what the Canadian low represent, but over here is a PROFESSIONAL car seller required to give 12 months warranty on the car purchased by a NON professional. I hope for you that this indistinctness will be cleared in a short time.

[ssflai]

Thank you very much for all your suggestions and encouragements. Being a newbie, I needed it.....

Quick update, just get a call from the service advisor from Downtown Porsche, and the best he can offer is 10% discount off the whole job including the 48000 major tune up ($2500 - 10%). Loren was correct, the warranty on a repair by Downtown porsche should be 2 years but the previous RMS replacement was already been done under "good will" since the car was barely out of warranty at the time and thus, Porsche is not willing to subsidize further for the repair and nothing much they can do except the 10% goodwill discount, hence, I am on my own.

The service advisor has also suggested the leak may not be the RMS and it could be some other seals inside the transmission and to be determined when they take apart the transmission. My question is, should i replace the RMS anyway if the leak is found not caused by the RMS ? :unsure: I figured if they are honouring 2 years warranty on this repair, I might as well replace it so that i am insured for the next 2 yrs on the RMS since RMS is a recurring issue. He has also suggested to replace the Clutch as well if it is found necessary during the process to save future labor cost. To me, the clutch seems to be pretty good and the friction point is about half way. What percentage left on the clutch I should decide to replace the clutch as well ? :unsure: Thank you very much for the advise in advance.

Steven

Edited March 17, 2008 by ssflai

[White987S]

If it were my car, I would replace the RMS and clutch.

[ssflai]

If it were my car, I would replace the RMS and clutch.

My service appointment is scheduled on next Monday.

After 2 days driven on the last weekend, the car has been sitting in the garage since Sunday night and until this afternoon (Wednesday), I don't see any drip on the garage floor at all. Do you think the drips prior could be some kind of "sweat" due to the car hasn't be driven for a while (the car was sitting in the garage for 2 weeks after I brought it home till last weekend) ?

Steven

Edited March 19, 2008 by ssflai

[RFM]

RMS can stop leaking after stand still for a few days ( leak above oil level ) intermediate shaft seal leak in contrary stays leaking ( leak under oil level ) In your case, i think, that the RMS is the culprit.

[ssflai]

RMS can stop leaking after stand still for a few days ( leak above oil level ) intermediate shaft seal leak in contrary stays leaking ( leak under oil level ) In your case, i think, that the RMS is the culprit.

What is the consequence if I don't fix this problem ? it is very expensive :(

[RFM]

You can wreck the clutch, the rear and bottom of the car get full of oil and dirt and your wife get angry because of the garage floor. :o

[ssflai]

You can wreck the clutch, the rear and bottom of the car get full of oil and dirt and your wife get angry because of the garage floor. :o

The amount of the drips is very minimal at this point ? will it still enough to screw the clutch ?

[RFM]

Maybe not instantly, perchance in the nearly future.

[Mike M]

"No warranty on warranty".

OK, let me get this straight. Let's say I have a new Boxster and the crankshaft is replaced

under warranty. 2 weeks later,the same problem reoccurs and the crankshaft needs to be replaced again. Are you telling me that I am on the hook for this repair???

I don't think so! I really think a negotiated settlement should be reached here.

Just my 2 cents.

[RFM]

Engines, transmissions and other expensive parts have a different arrangement, more ordinary parts as RMS, wheel bearings, etc. are under this rule. MAF sensors are for example a classic point for discussions, which in most situations are solved.

[1schoir]

RMS can stop leaking after stand still for a few days ( leak above oil level ) intermediate shaft seal leak in contrary stays leaking ( leak under oil level ) In your case, i think, that the RMS is the culprit.

What is the consequence if I don't fix this problem ? it is very expensive :(

ssflai:

Some people have had success in minimizing, and in some cases stopping completely, a RMS leak by moving to a slightly heavier weight oil, such as Mobil 1 15w40. Depending on the temperatures where you are located, it may be a good idea to give it a try before resorting to surgery.

Regards, Maurice.

[ssflai]

RMS can stop leaking after stand still for a few days ( leak above oil level ) intermediate shaft seal leak in contrary stays leaking ( leak under oil level ) In your case, i think, that the RMS is the culprit.

What is the consequence if I don't fix this problem ? it is very expensive :(

ssflai:

Some people have had success in minimizing, and in some cases stopping completely, a RMS leak by moving to a slightly heavier weight oil, such as Mobil 1 15w40. Depending on the temperatures where you are located, it may be a good idea to give it a try before resorting to surgery.

Regards, Maurice.

Thanks for your suggestion, Maurice. I am located in Toronto and the average winter temperature is below 0C (6 months), do you think 15w40 is ok ? please advise

Steven

[White987S]

I would not use 15W40 in your cold climate.

[ssflai]

Ok Ok. With all the suggestions and advises, I have replaced the Rear Main Seal, Intermediate Shaft Seal and the Clutch as well as the 48000km major tune up. Money spent and spring is here, I will worry about the credit card bill next month. Lets have some fun for the time being .....

p.s. 0W40 Mobile One Synthetic Oil is recommended by the dealer in Toronto

Edited March 27, 2008 by ssflai

[kbrandsma]

ssflai what was the final damage$ ?

[twoburgers]

ssflai what was the final damage$ ?

My dealer quoted $1450 for the RMS alone. Note that I have a '97 tip w/ less than 2K miles. My question, I have a dealer acknowledgement from the original owner about the slow dribble from the RMS when under warranty. Will Porsche US comp the parts? Appreciate comments from anyone that has delt with the similar issue.

Thanks,

Chris