speaker disappointment

[matthewjamesdunn]

Hey guys, finally changed out my door speakers yesterday. The install went fine but I'm sort of bummed out with the sound. I did the left door first and put it back together so I could compare it to the stock right side. After using the balance feature to listen to them independently I honestly could not tell the difference between the stock and the brand new Infinity Kappa 6.5" 2-way that I put in. Maybe I expected too much or maybe I just need more juice. The dash speakers (also Kappas) sound great but they still sound like they completely overpower the doors. Another thing is that the speakers came with there own independent crossover unit which I used. Probably don't need it though because the doors only get lows from the amp anyway. WOndering if any of you guys have swapped in 6.5's in the doors and if u had very noticable improvement over the stock. I'm no audiophile but I really can't tell that its any better. My only other theory is maybe that channel on the amp is either not functioning or not putting out the full 40 watts. It is a '97 and that amp is 11 years old. Is there any sort of testing device for checking the output (wattage) of an amp? Thanks in advance for any help.

Matt

[ChrisBoxster]

Just get yourself a cheap amp, and by cheap, I dont mean garbage. Find something on ebay that is quality and going for very little. Crossovers, that arent built in, might help as well. those speakers probably arent getting enough power from the stock amp. Did you have the Hi-fi system or the Bose upgrade previously?

[Chris_in_NH]

yup, buy another amp. the factory amp doesn't provide enough juice to drive those speakers.

[Cassiebox]

Hey guys, finally changed out my door speakers yesterday. The install went fine but I'm sort of bummed out with the sound. I did the left door first and put it back together so I could compare it to the stock right side. After using the balance feature to listen to them independently I honestly could not tell the difference between the stock and the brand new Infinity Kappa 6.5" 2-way that I put in. Maybe I expected too much or maybe I just need more juice. The dash speakers (also Kappas) sound great but they still sound like they completely overpower the doors. Another thing is that the speakers came with there own independent crossover unit which I used. Probably don't need it though because the doors only get lows from the amp anyway. WOndering if any of you guys have swapped in 6.5's in the doors and if u had very noticable improvement over the stock. I'm no audiophile but I really can't tell that its any better. My only other theory is maybe that channel on the amp is either not functioning or not putting out the full 40 watts. It is a '97 and that amp is 11 years old. Is there any sort of testing device for checking the output (wattage) of an amp? Thanks in advance for any help.

Matt

Couple of things....

Are you sure fader is set in the middle? Alos, I'd be more inclined to hook up the other side too before making a "call on their ability" so the system runs balance. Some OEM door speakers are 4Ohm - others 2 and the Kappa's IIRC are 2.

How did you mount them? If in the stock tuned port that might explain why b/c they aren't getting sufficient air flow. I put Kappa 6.75" (basically same as 6.5") on a wood baffle in the doors and couldn't be more pleased w/ how dramatically better the sound is. I did not use the crossover - just wired up the woofers only and all powered by a stock amp.

Edited February 24, 2008 by Cassiebox

[matthewjamesdunn]

I mounted them on a custom wood baffle so the tuned port enclosure is gone. The car had an aftermarket Eclipse head unit when I bought it, and the way its wired I can't control the fade between the doors and the dash, just the balance. Was the stock becker wired the same way (did a fader even exist?) All I know is, for how good the dash sounds, the doors are not on par. I'm gonna keep fidgeting but I have a feeling they're just not getting the juice.

Matt

[Chris_in_NH]

I mounted them on a custom wood baffle so the tuned port enclosure is gone. The car had an aftermarket Eclipse head unit when I bought it, and the way its wired I can't control the fade between the doors and the dash, just the balance. Was the stock becker wired the same way (did a fader even exist?) All I know is, for how good the dash sounds, the doors are not on par. I'm gonna keep fidgeting but I have a feeling they're just not getting the juice.

Matt

you shouldn't be able to 'fade' between the dash and the doors. think of it as 1 signal split into highs (dash) and lows (doors). the fader function would be for fading between front and rear speakers.

i still think you need more amp power to drive those speakers.

[Cassiebox]

I think your answer is in the fade.........

Regarding fade and the stock system............

OEM door speakers are driven by the amp obviously, but it's by combining the front and rear channels from the h/u. In a stock system if you faded 100% to either front or rear, the doors are even more non-existent. (It's tough to tell if the stock door speakers are working even w/ everything hooked up correctly). This is the case regardless if you have rear speakers or not. If you don't have rears, maybe the previous owner decided not to hook up the rear channel from the new h/u to the amp? I'd check as it seems most likely the source of your problem.

Assuming you bought the Infinity Kappa 62.7i, the specs are.....

Sensitivity 95 dB

Frequency Response 45 - 25k Hz

RMS Power Range (Watts) 2-75

Peak Power Handling (Watts) 225

Impedance (Ohms) 2

I used Kappa 652.7i (6 3/4") which have identical specs:

Sensitivity 95 dB

Frequency Response 45 - 25k Hz

RMS Power Range (Watts) 2-75

Peak Power Handling (Watts) 225

Impedance (Ohms) 2

Mine are driven by a stock amp as well and sound supremely better than OEM. With the RMS of 2-75W, the stock amp (40W max) has enough power to drive them - obviously not to peak but enough to sound good - especially w/ the 95dB response and 2Ohm rating of these speakers.

Polarity (hooking up the + / - in reverse) could also be a minor issue as the phasing would "fighting" w/ the dash but I'm not sure that's your issue. I bet it has to do w/ no signal from the rear channel of the h/u to the amp. Pull it and take a look.

Edited February 25, 2008 by Cassiebox

[matthewjamesdunn]

I think I follow u Cassiebox. However, If the previous owner never hooked up the rear channels from the H/U to the amp, I would be getting no sound at all out of the door, right? I guess my question is, how many sets of speaker leads should be going from the H/U to the amp? I would assume 4. If there are 4 channel outputs from the amp and they are all wired to their respective speakers, how could it be possible for the doors not to get 40 watts? Nothing was done between the amp and the dash or the doors so my problem then must exist between the H/U and the amp. There are no rear speaker additions. Anyway, I'm gonna pull the H/U after work and see what I can find.

Matt

[Cassiebox]

I think I follow u Cassiebox. However, If the previous owner never hooked up the rear channels from the H/U to the amp, I would be getting no sound at all out of the door, right? I guess my question is, how many sets of speaker leads should be going from the H/U to the amp? I would assume 4. If there are 4 channel outputs from the amp and they are all wired to their respective speakers, how could it be possible for the doors not to get 40 watts? Nothing was done between the amp and the dash or the doors so my problem then must exist between the H/U and the amp. There are no rear speaker additions. Anyway, I'm gonna pull the H/U after work and see what I can find.

Matt

Definitely pull the h/u to see how many pre-amp leads go from there to the amp - it should be 4 (FL, FR, RL, RR). Might be hard to trace b/c in the OEM set up Porsche used a common ground for all 4 channels from the h/u (splits out into 4 separate - leads before the amp). None the less, it should be 4 + leads.

If the rear channel is not hooked up, you would still hear some sound. Again, the doors are driven by combining the low level leads from both front and rear channels from h/u in the amp. If only the front is hooked up, then the doors are still being fed the same power by the amp but only 1/2 the signal is sound. Simplistically, think along the lines using an iPod w/ only one earphone for 2 ears I guess.

Anyhow, here's a quick scan of the schematic from the Bentley manual on the M490 system in a '97 showing radio (top) and amp (bottom) which should help you reverse trace what's connected and what's not.

[juniinc]

As some of U already know, I'm pushing 1100 RMS WATTS in my 986.

buy a real amp, something like HIFonics? haha

Many ppl underestimate the factory door speakers. I think they sound pretty good, especially when they are in its original factory tuned enclosure - in fact when I fed true 70 RMS watts, they were one of the best mid woofers I've heard.

Sometimes going with a pair of custom door baffles can actually sounds worse than your factory set up. it is extremely hard to seal the door no matter what you do to it. Even if u do seal it U still dont want too much air movement to rattle your door,window. So we often build a custom speaker enclosure/pod.