Ordered Glass top from Robbins

[1schoir]

Thanks Maurice. Your experience with the top installation is very helpful to the rest of us!

Eric

Eric:

Glad to help.

When you get it done, post a couple of pics! If you have a "before" pic, that would be even better.

Regards, Maurice.

[ericinca]

Thanks Maurice. Your experience with the top installation is very helpful to the rest of us!

Eric

Eric:

Glad to help.

When you get it done, post a couple of pics! If you have a "before" pic, that would be even better.

Regards, Maurice.

Guys, I'm having a h*ll of a time removing the residual tape in slot #3 where the fat weather strip goes before putting on the new top. I've got most of the tape off, but there appears some residual that seems permanently bonded to the metal, especially at the end of the bow. Repeated application of denatured alcohol does not help. I'm thinking about using something stronger, like an adhesive remover to take off the remaining adhesive. Is this safe to use on metal?

I want to get to the exciting part of installing the new top, but am being slowed by cleaning out the old tape.

Any advice much appreciated.

Eric

[1schoir]

Guys, I'm having a h*ll of a time removing the residual tape in slot #3 where the fat weather strip goes before putting on the new top. I've got most of the tape off, but there appears some residual that seems permanently bonded to the metal, especially at the end of the bow. Repeated application of denatured alcohol does not help. I'm thinking about using something stronger, like an adhesive remover to take off the remaining adhesive. Is this safe to use on metal?

I want to get to the exciting part of installing the new top, but am being slowed by cleaning out the old tape.

Any advice much appreciated.

Eric

Eric:

Get a quart red can of 3M "General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner (3M Part Number 08984). It's available at most auto paint stores. It's safe to use on the finish of the top frame and has a little squirt tube coming out of the top which is ideal for squirting on the solvent accurately to where you want it (inside that slot #3. Just cut off a tiny bit of the squirt tube so that you end up with a tiny hole for the solvent to squirt out of. If the stuff is really stubborn, squirt it on there liberally and put a small piece of Saran wrap over it for a few minutes. It will dissolve it completely and you can remove the residue in that slot with a toothbrush. It will be completely clean and provide a good surface to which the double-sided tape will stick.

Don't get any of the adhesive remover on the car paint unnecessarily, although it is safe for fully cured paint.

The exciting part is when you have finished and you step back and admire your handiwork for the first time. You will think you just got a new Boxster. :beer:

Regards, Maurice.

Edited April 14, 2010 by 1schoir

[ericinca]

Thanks, Maurice.

It's a beautiful weekend here in CA (first in a while) and this gives me another opportunity to make more progress on the top.

I inquired about the 3M Adhesive Cleaner and learned that it's no longer sold here in CA because of new laws pertaining to air quality. The auto paint store recommended another adhesive cleaner called "SEM Solve", which can still be sold here in CA. They reported painters had good success with it. So I bought a can. It's an aerosol that you can spray onto a cloth to wipe.

It worked like magic. Still needed some elbow grease but the sticky tape residue that could not be removed with alcohol melted away immediately. That channel is so clean now it's amazing.

And I have finally crossed the important threshold between removing the top and installing the new top. Making good progress now!

Eric

[1schoir]

Eric:

Excellent! Keep up the good work, you're almost there!

As it says in the DIY, if you get the canvas in properly in the rear main bow, and around the shoulder plates over the windows, you'll end up with a perfect job.

Regards, Maurice.

[ericinca]

Thanks again, Maurice.

About those aluminum plates... they are taking quite a bit of effort to line up with the holes on the frame. At their resting state, the holes are about 2" back from where they should be relative to the holes in the top frame. I don't know if I've done something wrong with the previous steps in the installation (although appears OK), but I haven't been successful and it appears to take a LOT of strength to pull those forward to line up with the holes, even with the "awl through the screw hole" method on Mike Focke's page. So much so I'm concerned I might be damaging the motor mechanism by pulling on the canvas and plates too much. Is this normal? Should I just give it a good yank?

Is there any particular position of the top that would make it easiest to align everything?

For those who don't know, on the GAHH top, the 3 holes are already pre-drilled into the canvas, so I didn't have to re-align the holes on the canvas with the plates. My task is only to line them up with the plates and pull the plates and the canvas forward to match the holes on the frame, which is proving challenging.

Eric

[1schoir]

Thanks again, Maurice.

About those aluminum plates... they are taking quite a bit of effort to line up with the holes on the frame. At their resting state, the holes are about 2" back from where they should be relative to the holes in the top frame. I don't know if I've done something wrong with the previous steps in the installation (although appears OK), but I haven't been successful and it appears to take a LOT of strength to pull those forward to line up with the holes, even with the "awl through the screw hole" method on Mike Focke's page. So much so I'm concerned I might be damaging the motor mechanism by pulling on the canvas and plates too much. Is this normal? Should I just give it a good yank?

Is there any particular position of the top that would make it easiest to align everything?

For those who don't know, on the GAHH top, the 3 holes are already pre-drilled into the canvas, so I didn't have to re-align the holes on the canvas with the plates. My task is only to line them up with the plates and pull the plates and the canvas forward to match the holes on the frame, which is proving challenging.

Eric

Eric:

You are definitely on the right track. As long as you have lined up and inserted the rear of the canvas material into the rear main bow's three channels, you have done it correctly. That awl through the hole trick works well, but sometimes you have to have a second pair of hands, because it does take some force. If you work in the sun and let the top absorb some of that California sun and heat, it should allow it to stretch a little more easily. It is completely normal for the top to be VERY tight at first, and it will soften up over a little time when it's in the closed position in the sun.

You won't run the risk of damaging the motor or mechanism. Don't be tempted to make new holes in the canvas because then you will probably end up with some wrinkles. Just apply some steady force. After you line up the first of any of the three holes with the awl, the other two will be very easy.

As to the easiest position, as long as the rear main bow is not being pulled on by the tension ropes you are good.

Keep it up, you are almost there! :jump:

Regards, Maurice.

[adonkin]

Folks,

It's so great to receive the insight of those that have gone before me. Thank you all so much for your contributions, especially Maurice and Mike Focke. :thankyou:

My new GAHH is sitting in the box and I'm about to order up those clamping rails, sliders and material to fabricate the seals as most recommend. My one question to start is: is this project feasible with the top and frame removed from the car? I'm lucky enough to have a hardtop for our New England winters and could keep on driving (i.e. getting back and forth to work) while I worked evenings in the garage on the top and frame. Mike has a DIY for removing the assembly and it has been discussed here as well. Just wondering how much added hassle it would be and if it can even be done that way.

Thanks so much,

Alan

[1schoir]

Folks,

It's so great to receive the insight of those that have gone before me. Thank you all so much for your contributions, especially Maurice and Mike Focke. :thankyou:

My new GAHH is sitting in the box and I'm about to order up those clamping rails, sliders and material to fabricate the seals as most recommend. My one question to start is: is this project feasible with the top and frame removed from the car? I'm lucky enough to have a hardtop for our New England winters and could keep on driving (i.e. getting back and forth to work) while I worked evenings in the garage on the top and frame. Mike has a DIY for removing the assembly and it has been discussed here as well. Just wondering how much added hassle it would be and if it can even be done that way.

Thanks so much,

Alan

Alan:

Thanks for the kind words.

While it is relatively very easy to remove the entire top and frame assembly from the car, you would be left with the top not being anchored to a solid base. That is needed to effectively push and pull on the canvas in the area of the rear main bow and especially when trying to stretch the canvas to line up the screw holes into the frame in the area over the windows and over the front edge of the canvas. See the recent post by Ericinca directly above.

If you can manage to anchor it properly on a bench, then you could go that route and it might be more comfortable to work that way. Otherwise, I would leave it on the car.

If you have any before pics of your car with the old top and window...we like pics!!! ;)

Regards, Maurice.

[adonkin]

Thank you again Maurice!

Your always there to help and I'm sure everyone going through the top replacement routine appreciates your thoughtful insight not to mention a bit of hand holding on what seems at first to be such an onerous project. I think that I'd rather due a clutch R&R, but here goes anyway. I will leave the assembly on the car as I do this as I don't want to build a bench and holding jig. If I don't finish it one day, I can always stow the works and get back and forth to work with the hardtop on the car. Believe it or not, the arctic silver top on the ocean blue base surprisingly doesn't look all that bad! I'll get some pics when the gloomy rain clouds go away. Right now I'm waiting for all those 986-561-xxx-xx parts to come in to do this right.

Regards,

Alan

[ericinca]

Back from the field... I've still been working on pulling the aluminum plates back onto the top frame with the GAHH top. (Progress has been slow recently.)

I managed to pull the plates to align with the screw holes and even fastened the plates with the screws. Unfortunately, pulling the combination of the cloth and the aluminum has still proved to be impossible. The suggested 06384 3M automotive tape hasn't been strong enough to hold the cloth to the plates. So I'm considering using glue as mentioned by one of Mike Focke's articles on installing the Robbins top. I'd like to glue the canvas onto the plates and let it dry using clamps.

However, the article did not mention the what type of glue would have the right strength to bond canvas and metal. Any recommendations there? I have some epoxy lying around and wonder if that would be suitable. There are only a million different kinds of glue out there! (OK, I exaggerate.)

Eric

[1schoir]

Back from the field... I've still been working on pulling the aluminum plates back onto the top frame with the GAHH top. (Progress has been slow recently.)

I managed to pull the plates to align with the screw holes and even fastened the plates with the screws. Unfortunately, pulling the combination of the cloth and the aluminum has still proved to be impossible. The suggested 06384 3M automotive tape hasn't been strong enough to hold the cloth to the plates. So I'm considering using glue as mentioned by one of Mike Focke's articles on installing the Robbins top. I'd like to glue the canvas onto the plates and let it dry using clamps.

However, the article did not mention the what type of glue would have the right strength to bond canvas and metal. Any recommendations there? I have some epoxy lying around and wonder if that would be suitable. There are only a million different kinds of glue out there! (OK, I exaggerate.)

Eric

Eric:

When I had to re-glue the rear of the canvas onto the rear main bow of the OEM '04 glass-windowed top that I recently put on my Boxster, I had a conversation with one of the experts at 3M.

For gluing canvas onto metal (steel, aluminum, magnesium, etc.) he recommended 3M Scoth-Weld Neoprene High Performance Rubber and Gasket adhesive 1300 (3M part number 62-1300-2631-3). It has made a bond stronger than what the factory had on there and will not come apart.

Here is a photo of the glue:

You may be able to find it at an auto paint store. Otherwise, you can order it direct from 3M online or by phone.

One word of caution. I used it in a part that is hidden when the installation is complete. I am not sure what effect it would have just under an exposed part of the canvas, so make sure you only glue the flap with the holes in it, and not the face of the shoulder plate itself.

Don't get discouraged, you are almost there! :beer:

Regards, Maurice.

[ericinca]

Maurice,

Thank you again for your enlightening advice.

I got a tube of the 3M 1300 adhesive and it worked wonders. With the rated 150lbs per square inch of shear strength coming from the adhesive, getting the plates and cloth to align to the holes in the frame was a breeze. And I'm happy to report that it can safely be used on the opposite sides of the visible areas of the canvas with no fear of leakage to the other side. This was handy for neatly creasing the canvas around the bend of the aluminum plates.

As you can see from the attached screenshots (left and right sides), there are now no wrinkles on the left and right sides over the plate. A little bit of the 3M adhesive helped greatly here too. I have now only to attach the front of the canvas to the frame.

The problem I'm seeing is how to get out those wrinkles in the canvas beyond the plates in the middle area of the top. You can see them in the photos as rippled color variations on the canvas. The wrinkles are caused by the looseness of the cloth in those areas.

I've tried pulling the canvas tight but that minimizes but does not entirely eliminate those wrinkles. Will these wrinkles come out if I leave the top in the sunlight for a couple days, or must I do my best to exert force and pull the canvas forward as much as I can to eliminate the wrinkles before attaching the front of the canvas?

Also, the attachment of the GAHH top to the front has been unclear also. The top came with a cardboard strip that was unattached to the canvas, and I'm unsure which bonding method should be used to attach the strip to the canvas. I first discovered that the strip was actually 1/8" to 1/4" too short so that the screw cutouts did not align with the screw locations on the frame. I had to cut the strip into two halves to attach it to the frame. After solving this problem, I then realized that because of the strip's material, neither the double-sided auto tape or the 3M material would be strong enough to bond the canvas to the strip. The only solution I can see at this point to attach the canvas in the front is to actually use the 3M adhesive to attach the canvas directly to the metal part of the frame. This is OK, but the OEM top IMHO had a much better attachment method with a leather strip sewn directly to the canvas. I feel like I'm missing something obvious here that I should be doing.

Eric

Edited May 12, 2010 by ericinca

[elsenorfon]

This thread has been incredibly informative, a big thank you for everyone involved.

Cheers