Ball joint advice

[atm]

Hello

I found my plastic cap disconnected from the balljoint. I also found the metal ball part rolling around under the clamshell. I've got 2 questions if anyone can help:

1. Is there a better way to get access to the area where the ball screws into the hood than just using the service position?

2. The ball is threaded but I think there should be a nut on the back which this screws into which I dont have. Can I get one from Porsche or somewhere else?

Any help or advice much appreciated.

[1schoir]

Hello

I found my plastic cap disconnected from the balljoint. I also found the metal ball part rolling around under the clamshell. I've got 2 questions if anyone can help:

1. Is there a better way to get access to the area where the ball screws into the hood than just using the service position?

2. The ball is threaded but I think there should be a nut on the back which this screws into which I dont have. Can I get one from Porsche or somewhere else?

Any help or advice much appreciated.

I am assuming that you mean the white (or red if it's original and an early Boxster) plastic cup at the end of the push rod arm that is attached to the V-lever.

Since you have the steel ball part in your hand, there is no reason that you can't go into a hardware store that carries metric hardware and get an appropriate nut. Go to Pelicanparts.com and enter the Porsche part number is N01111811 to see if that is the part you are referring to. It lists for about $2.50.

In answer to your first question, by moving the convertible top into various positions between full up and full down, you can sometimes get better access or a better view of the area you are referring to.

Regards, Maurice.

[Tool Pants]

There is a thin nut. See if it is floating around under the top. You can also look at the other side. You might remove the plastic cover to get a better view.

You also need to see if the frame mounting lug that the ball screws into has broken off, and that is the reason the ball was rolling around.

[atm]

There is a thin nut. See if it is floating around under the top. You can also look at the other side. You might remove the plastic cover to get a better view.

You also need to see if the frame mounting lug that the ball screws into has broken off, and that is the reason the ball was rolling around.

Yes thats the one.

I removed the arm and then pushed the ball into the plastic cup. I then used the arm to locate the thread of the ball where it should fix to the hood but it just went in and out. Hence I figured out there must be a nut on the other side. I can just make out the nut on my other side which is fixed on ok and it is only this which has been operating and taking the strain of my hood going up and down.

Therefore as I can slide the thread of the ball in and out I presume the mounting lug is undamaged.

What do you mean by the plastic cover?

[1schoir]

There is a thin nut. See if it is floating around under the top. You can also look at the other side. You might remove the plastic cover to get a better view.

You also need to see if the frame mounting lug that the ball screws into has broken off, and that is the reason the ball was rolling around.

Yes thats the one.

I removed the arm and then pushed the ball into the plastic cup. I then used the arm to locate the thread of the ball where it should fix to the hood but it just went in and out. Hence I figured out there must be a nut on the other side. I can just make out the nut on my other side which is fixed on ok and it is only this which has been operating and taking the strain of my hood going up and down.

Therefore as I can slide the thread of the ball in and out I presume the mounting lug is undamaged.

What do you mean by the plastic cover?

I think Tool Pants may be referring to the black plastic cosmetic trim covers that are simply snapped onto the clamshell supporting arms. They are missing on some cars because they get in the way of seeing the "works" and they only serve a cosmetic function.

Regards, Maurice.

[atm]

There is a thin nut. See if it is floating around under the top. You can also look at the other side. You might remove the plastic cover to get a better view.

You also need to see if the frame mounting lug that the ball screws into has broken off, and that is the reason the ball was rolling around.

Yes thats the one.

I removed the arm and then pushed the ball into the plastic cup. I then used the arm to locate the thread of the ball where it should fix to the hood but it just went in and out. Hence I figured out there must be a nut on the other side. I can just make out the nut on my other side which is fixed on ok and it is only this which has been operating and taking the strain of my hood going up and down.

Therefore as I can slide the thread of the ball in and out I presume the mounting lug is undamaged.

What do you mean by the plastic cover?

I think Tool Pants may be referring to the black plastic cosmetic trim covers that are simply snapped onto the clamshell supporting arms. They are missing on some cars because they get in the way of seeing the "works" and they only serve a cosmetic function.

Regards, Maurice.

OK thanks.

I'll try pulling at anything which looks plastic.

My main problem is that I cant get my fingers into the area where the metal ball attaches to the hood.

[1schoir]

There is a thin nut. See if it is floating around under the top. You can also look at the other side. You might remove the plastic cover to get a better view.

You also need to see if the frame mounting lug that the ball screws into has broken off, and that is the reason the ball was rolling around.

Yes thats the one.

I removed the arm and then pushed the ball into the plastic cup. I then used the arm to locate the thread of the ball where it should fix to the hood but it just went in and out. Hence I figured out there must be a nut on the other side. I can just make out the nut on my other side which is fixed on ok and it is only this which has been operating and taking the strain of my hood going up and down.

Therefore as I can slide the thread of the ball in and out I presume the mounting lug is undamaged.

What do you mean by the plastic cover?

I think Tool Pants may be referring to the black plastic cosmetic trim covers that are simply snapped onto the clamshell supporting arms. They are missing on some cars because they get in the way of seeing the "works" and they only serve a cosmetic function.

Regards, Maurice.

OK thanks.

I'll try pulling at anything which looks plastic.

My main problem is that I cant get my fingers into the area where the metal ball attaches to the hood.

ATM:

Here is a diagram of the convertible top mechanism parts:

The black plastic trim pieces that might be in the way are part #34. The clips that hold it on to the clamshell supporting arms are visible as small triangles to the left and right of the number "21" in the diagram. (Click on the photo to blow it up for a bigger picture).

Regards, Maurice.

[atm]

OK thanks I'll have another look and maybe take some pics.

I guess the metal ball/bracket I have loose is number 33 and the nut I need to source is number 36 on this diagram.

[Tool Pants]

The black plastic trim pieces attached to the clamshell is blocking your view.

When you remove the trim on the side that the ball came out, first thing you check is to see if the mounding lug for the ball has broken off from the top frame. If you are lucky the ball came out only because the nut unscrewed itself. If we search long enough we can usually find the nut, unless it has fallen into the drain.

[1schoir]

OK thanks I'll have another look and maybe take some pics.

I guess the metal ball/bracket I have loose is number 33 and the nut I need to source is number 36 on this diagram.

ATM:

Correct, those are the numbers in the diagram for the parts you are referring to. As I stated above, the part number for #36 is N01111811 (from the Pelicanparts.com website).

Regards, Maurice.

[atm]

So I went to the Porsche dealer todayfor a new nut. They had the nut listed with the same part number and diagram. I had to order it as they've never sold one before. Should be with them tomorrow morning so I can go and collect. Found myself staring at a white Cayman S they had in the showroom...

[1schoir]

So I went to the Porsche dealer todayfor a new nut. They had the nut listed with the same part number and diagram. I had to order it as they've never sold one before. Should be with them tomorrow morning so I can go and collect. Found myself staring at a white Cayman S they had in the showroom...

ATM:

This is what I would be thinking: Wow, this white Cayman S is nice... If I had this one, I would never have to bother with this convertible top and its parts... How much could I get for my Boxster as a trade in? Hold me back!!! LOL!

Regards, Maurice.

[atm]

OK so the new nut is on. I still found access very tricky. So much so that it was impossible for me to get the nut on by hand. I could only get 2 finger tips to the back of the nut. So in the end I had to use a telescopic magnet to position the nut then get a finger to the back of it. I thought I'd drop it and need to go and get a new one but I managed it. So its on but only really finger tight. I will keep an eye on it to check if it starts to come loose.

[Tool Pants]

You might try some loctite, or even super glue, on the threads. You do not want the ball to be loose and rock around. A mechanic told me this is a cause of a broken mounting lug. If the lug breaks off the frame you will not be happy....

[atm]

You might try some loctite, or even super glue, on the threads. You do not want the ball to be loose and rock around. A mechanic told me this is a cause of a broken mounting lug. If the lug breaks off the frame you will not be happy....

Understood.

My problem is access. I can only get a fingertip to the back of the nut. I cant get a spanner in there or a socket. I've tried stopping the top at various different positions and still no access.

[1schoir]

You might try some loctite, or even super glue, on the threads. You do not want the ball to be loose and rock around. A mechanic told me this is a cause of a broken mounting lug. If the lug breaks off the frame you will not be happy....

Understood.

My problem is access. I can only get a fingertip to the back of the nut. I cant get a spanner in there or a socket. I've tried stopping the top at various different positions and still no access.

Any possibility you can get a pair of small needlenose Vise-Grips in there to hold the nut while you turn the six-sided base of the metal ball?

Regards, Maurice.

Edited February 20, 2008 by 1schoir

[atm]

You might try some loctite, or even super glue, on the threads. You do not want the ball to be loose and rock around. A mechanic told me this is a cause of a broken mounting lug. If the lug breaks off the frame you will not be happy....

Understood.

My problem is access. I can only get a fingertip to the back of the nut. I cant get a spanner in there or a socket. I've tried stopping the top at various different positions and still no access.

Any possibility you can get a pair of small needlenose Vise-Grips in there to hold the nut while you turn the six-sided base of the metal ball?

Regards, Maurice.

My ball is basically round but with 2 indents which can take an 11 mm spanner. The thing is I used the arm to position the ball so it was already engaged in the red plastic end piece. So I would have to break the ball out of the joint now to get my spanner on there as there isn't enough room with it in the red joint. Then there is no guarantee I can get a spanner to it. Even if I do like I say it only has 2 edges so I can only hold the ball and then I need to turn the nut. If I could get a device to grip the nut I doubt I would have the room to rotate it. I'm stumped!

[1schoir]

You might try some loctite, or even super glue, on the threads. You do not want the ball to be loose and rock around. A mechanic told me this is a cause of a broken mounting lug. If the lug breaks off the frame you will not be happy....

Understood.

My problem is access. I can only get a fingertip to the back of the nut. I cant get a spanner in there or a socket. I've tried stopping the top at various different positions and still no access.

Any possibility you can get a pair of small needlenose Vise-Grips in there to hold the nut while you turn the six-sided base of the metal ball?

Regards, Maurice.

My ball is basically round but with 2 indents which can take an 11 mm spanner. The thing is I used the arm to position the ball so it was already engaged in the red plastic end piece. So I would have to break the ball out of the joint now to get my spanner on there as there isn't enough room with it in the red joint. Then there is no guarantee I can get a spanner to it. Even if I do like I say it only has 2 edges so I can only hold the ball and then I need to turn the nut. If I could get a device to grip the nut I doubt I would have the room to rotate it. I'm stumped!

atm:

The red plastic end piece can easily be pried off the metal ball and pressed back on later. Actually, I am surprised that you still have the original red plastic ball cup, as those have broken off on most cars because they get brittle with age. Porsche replaced those plastic ball cups with white ones, which seem to be more flexible and more durable.

Now that you have gotten the metal ball threaded onto the thin nut, pry off the red plastic ball cup. Here is Tool Pants' photo from Post #3 on this thread, to which I have added some arrows to point to specific places:

After you have pried off the red plastic ball cup, rotate the thin nut so that it has one of its six flat sides at the red arrow. You are trying to get the biggest space between one of the facets of the nut and the housing (to the right of that facet) on which it is mounted. Then, wedge a thin metal flat bladed screwdriver into the space between the facet of the nut and the housing. The corner of the nut (where two facets meet) extends further out towards the housing, so it will be prevented from rotating by the wedged-in screwdriver blade.

Then, using an 11mm open-end wrench (spanner) turn the two sides of the base of the metal ball where indicated by the blue arrows until it is reasonably tight. BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO EXERT TOO MUCH PRESSURE ON THE HOUSING THAT THE LUG IS A PART OF. If that lug breaks off, the replacement part is in excess of $2,000!

The safest approach is the one suggested by Tool Pants, i.e., use some Loctite on the threads so that you don't have to make it that tight, yet you will still have a firm bond that will prevent the nut from vibrating loose.

As the photograph shows, with the convertible top completely down, that area looks accessible enough to accomplish this task.

If you really cannot do it this way, you can try an unconventional approach, which would involve removal of the entire convertible top with the frame mechanism. That procedure is much easier than it sounds, and takes less than 1 hour to remove and reinstall. If you want to try that approach, let me know and I will dig up a procedure that I wrote up for removal of the entire top.

Finally, disregard the yellow arrow unless your top has come undone in a similar manner. It's fairly common for the small leather (or fibreboard) strip to come out from under the plastic clamping rail that is fastened under that hex screw and another screw on the opposite side.

Regards, Maurice.

[mikes_box]

I'd like to chime in on this one because this happened to me last year. I ended up buying a larger nut from osh and mark from sunnyvale helped me put it back in and that in itself was a pain in the ***. Don't know if we tightened it too tight but in a few months the lug portion of it broke off. Found out you needed to pretty much get a new frame and that cost $$$$. I lucked out and was able to get a replacement frame with a clear plastic window for a very good deal. Just finished the repair since it had been raining for the winter and i had a hardtop protecting the car. My suggestion to you is to just take of the whole top and you'll have all the access in the world to put that darn nut with loctite on without any problem. Its really easy to remove and install the frame back on the car. 3 bolts on each side and on my particular case two phillips screws on the sides.. The frame will just lift out and the access is incredible. Don't over tighten just put some of the loctite in and hand tighten let it set for a day and reattach the red balls.. Hope this helps from someone who learned the hard way.. mike