Top Issue

[cartel]

Hi all,

I have acquired a roof fault over the last four months, started if as an intermittent fault. I have a '99 2.5ltr 986. The roof is now completely stuck and will not move at all.

The handbrake dash light is working correctly as is the microswitch on the roof latch as the windows are dropping a couple of inches.

I have checked the two fuses both good

I have removed the hood control relay and whacked it a few times still nothing

I have acquired another hood relay still no good

I have removed the dashboard hood switch and tested it with a multi meter, seems o.k also.

Where do I go from here must be wiring or motor fault? How do I gain access to the motor whilst the hood is up/stuck?

cheers in advance :clapping: :clapping:

[ronbonner]

Boxster_micro_switch_troubleshooting.pdf

Cartel,

The attached troubleshooting guide should help you methodically work through the relay with your multi meter and check each microswitch in sequence. I think it's on this site somewhere as I posted it some years ago, back in the day when I had a Boxster the same as yours and suffered a similar fate.

BTW the microswitch in the latch is double acting so the windows operating is not a true indicator of its condition

RB

[cartel]

Thanks for the microswithch test sheet, I have worked through the list o.k as far as #8 where I have not got the required, 'battery voltage'. The same is true of #9 on list.

These two failed readings must point to a problem with the convertible top compartment lid microswitch.

Just need to work out how to get at it now.

There must be a way of manually opening the roof surely?

Cheers

[1schoir]

Thanks for the microswithch test sheet, I have worked through the list o.k as far as #8 where I have not got the required, 'battery voltage'. The same is true of #9 on list.

These two failed readings must point to a problem with the convertible top compartment lid microswitch.

Just need to work out how to get at it now.

There must be a way of manually opening the roof surely?

Cheers

Cartel:

To get the top to open manually, you must disconnect the white (or red if yours are original and have never been replaced) plastic cups at the base of the B-Pillar and the black hydraulic pushrods where they connect to the V-levers.

Disconnecting the white plastic cups will allow you to operate the convertible top manually.

Disconnecting the black hydraulic pushrods will allow you to operated the clamshell manually.

Here is a diagram of the mechanism, which should help you orient yourself as to what you are looking for:

The V-lever is part #6, the black hydraulic pushrod is part #12, and the white (or red) plastic cup is located on the forward end of part #3. Part #14 is the clamshell, and Part #1 is the canvas top.

To have a better chance to see the parts that must be disconnected, you will have to pull aside the (vinyl) rain curtain. That curtain is loosely held in place by yet another cable that is located at the rearmost corners of the (carpet-covered) engine compartment lid (on the car body, not on the lid). That cable is held on to a small metal ball and you must pry it apart from that metal ball.

Here is a photo of the flexible cable that leads to the metal ball (hidden under the metal cup at the bottom of the cable) at the side of the curtain:

That particular connection is easy to separate, unlike the black hydraulic pushrod.

Once you have the curtain's cable separated, you may also have to remove the black plastic cosmetic covers that are simply clipped onto the arm that supports the clamshell.

To access the white plastic cups, sit sideways in the driver's seat with the door open and your feet on the ground. Look down from above the side of the car (just behind where the rear quarter panel meets the rear of the door if the door were closed) and you should be able to see the white (or red) plastic cup. Pry that cup off by levering it outboard. You will nee a fat screwdriver or pry bar.

Then you will have to reach between the roll bar hoops, or possibly reach through them, to get at the connection of the hydraulic push rod to the V-lever. That connection is a real bear, so you will have to apply a great deal of pressure to separate it. Be careful not to hurt yourself there, but you just have to get the connection apart, again with a far screwdriver or, preferably an angled screwdriver. I have also had success using a non-automotive tool called a cat's claw, which is usually used to pull nails.

Once you have the various parts disconnected, DO NOT press the dashboard switch without CAREFULLY marking (and photographing) the position of the V-levers relative to the sides of the body that they are mounted on. Otherwise, it will be much more difficult to re-sychronize the V-levers.

Regards, Maurice.

[ronbonner]

Boxster_micro_switch_troubleshooting.pdf

Cartel,

The attached troubleshooting guide should help you methodically work through the relay with your multi meter and check each microswitch in sequence. I think it's on this site somewhere as I posted it some years ago, back in the day when I had a Boxster the same as yours and suffered a similar fate.

BTW the microswitch in the latch is double acting so the windows operating is not a true indicator of its condition

RB

[No 8 is the culprit as No 9 won't have any voltage due to 8 failing. This is a sequencial operation

RB

[cartel]

Hi again, finally had some dry weather which allowed me to continue troubleshooting, I've managed to disconnect the pushrods and get the clamshell up to take a look at the motor and sensor.

I bridged the motor connection and it ran fine. the microswitch also appears to be working correctly (tested with multimeter).

I 've came up against a brick wall again now, just wondering if i should buy a brand new relay from porsche in case the secondhand one i bought is a dud. :

Also has anyone got a wiring diagram for the roof system?

Edited January 22, 2008 by cartel

[Ricey]

Sorry to dig up old posts but I tested my car today using a multimeter and it failed on 6,7 and 8

6. Convertible top locked . Connect measuring instrument to terminal 23 and terminal 14 (cowl panel frame micro-switch). volts should read = battery voltage

7. Convertible top locked . Connect measuring instrument to terminal 23 and terminal 29 (B-pillar micro-switch). volts should read = battery voltage

8. Convertible top unlocked . Connect measuring instrument to terminal 23 and terminal 13 (micro-switch closed, convertible top compartment lid CTCL open). volts should read = battery voltage

Can somone cofirm what needs to be replaced?

[Ricey]

Replaced the Relay and Top microswitch and checked all fuses

Does anyone have any ideas?

[1schoir]

Which "Top microswitch" did you replace, and what year is your Boxster?

Could you also describe, in detail, the symptoms that your top exhibited before or during the failure, and exactly what happened?

Regards, Maurice.

[Ricey]

Which "Top microswitch" did you replace, and what year is your Boxster?

Could you also describe, in detail, the symptoms that your top exhibited before or during the failure, and exactly what happened?

Regards, Maurice.

Hi Maurice

Thank you for the reply

My 2000 2.7 Boxster was sitting idle for a few months and when I went to start it there was nothing.. I changed the battery and then it ran for a while until the fuel pump relay went

One day I removed the hard top to get to the engine, when I was finished the soft top would not go down only up (it was half way up to access the engine)

I bought a second hand roof relay from Ebay but that did not resolve the issue. I checked the following fuses but they are good (I even swapped them out)

B6 (convertible top double relay)

D6 (convertible top motor)

The hand brake light comes on and the windows drop when I open the latch, I hear a tick but nothing from the motor. The motor should work as it did go up

I tested using a multimeter and it failed on 6,7 and 8

6. Convertible top locked . Connect measuring instrument to terminal 23 and terminal 14 (cowl panel frame micro-switch). volts should read = battery voltage

7. Convertible top locked . Connect measuring instrument to terminal 23 and terminal 29 (B-pillar micro-switch). volts should read = battery voltage

8. Convertible top unlocked . Connect measuring instrument to terminal 23 and terminal 13 (micro-switch closed, convertible top compartment lid CTCL open). volts should read = battery voltage

So I replaced the latch microswitch (986-613-799-00) as there was no continuity when I tested it

But still the roof does not drop

I noticed before replacing the microswitch when I went over bumps the roof light on the dash would flash on, and also when I replaced the microswitch the spolier light came on when I opened the latch

Since replacing the microswitch I have not yet had the chance to test the relay board

Any help is much appreciated

Edited November 13, 2012 by Ricey

[1schoir]

There are two areas to eliminate in order to try to resolve the problem with your top.

Even if your top is in the completely closed (up) position, you can check out those two areas, even though you will have to contort yourself to reach back there:

First, you may have a "dead spot" on the electric motor.

Second, one or both of your drive cables may be frayed or broken inside their respective vinyls sheaths, or the cables may not be engaging the gear on the transmission end of the cables.

To check out whether the motor is spinning when you press the top button, disconnect the drive cables from both sides of the electric motor. If your top is up, reach back and unclip the black bar that is at the end of the black vinyl apron from the clips that are on the rear firewall (left and right). Then, at the electric motor, where the drive cables enter it on each side, pull up on the upside down U-clip and pull each drive cable outboard and leave them disconnected. Use a light and a mirror to look into either side of the electric motor. You will see a small square female flange. That flange should turn at a high rate of speed when you press the button. If it doesn't turn, either the motor is defective (or has a dead spot) or the switch or wiring is at fault (since you have already replaced the fuses).

If the electric motor spins, then check the drive cables for operation. Insert the end of each inner (speedometer-type) metal cable into a cordless drill set on the LOWEST torque setting. Then, after you have released the latch, spin the cable with the drill and observe the V-lever on that side for rotation. If the V-lever is turning but the roof on that side is not opening, reverse the direction of the drill. Repeat on the other side. That will tell you if your drive cables are intact and whether they are engaging the worm gear inside the transmission on that side.

Before you spin the drive cables with the drill, take careful measurements and note the position of the V-levers. Take a few photographs as well so that you will know the starting position.

Report back with any results.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited November 15, 2012 by 1schoir

[Ricey]

Thanks for the great detail Maurice, much appreciated

Will check this over the weekend

One thing is the soft top did go up when I removed the hard top to access the engine, the top just didnt want to go back down after I was finished with the engine... so the top was half up and I could only put it up and not down, if it was the cables or the motor that was broken do you know if they would still work in one direction?

[1schoir]

The top not going back down and only going up could still indicate a dead spot on the electric motor if the top is now permanently in the fully closed position and will not budge. Again, there could also be a problem with the dashboard switch itself, possibly being intermittent.

Since yours is a 2000 Boxster, you probably have the "B Version" transmissions and set up, so the only other possible cause for the behavior you describe above would be a faulty double relay. You can only easily check that with a double relay that is known to be good (the one from eBay may or may not be).

I'm assuming your 2000 Boxster is not one of the "transition" Boxsters from the A Version to the B Version top mechanism and that you don't have either the B-pillar microswitch or the black lever microswitch on top of the electric motor housing. Take a look at the symbol on the visible top surface of the double relay in the relay tray. If there is a solid black square, you have the B Version (with no external microswitches). If the double relay has a solid black triangle, you have the A Version.

BTW, I'm assuming that the double relay that you got from eBay is the correct, identical version to the one that was originally on your Boxster. You might want to double check that they both have the same symbol (i.e., black square or black triangle).

Regards, Maurice.

[Ricey]

Hi Maurice

I checked the roof relay they both have a black square

The roof light microswitch was replaced and now I only get 2 failures on the voltmeter test

6. Convertible top locked . Connect measuring instrument to terminal 23 and terminal 14 (cowl panel frame micro-switch). volts should read = battery voltage

7. Convertible top locked . Connect measuring instrument to terminal 23 and terminal 29 (B-pillar micro-switch). volts should read = battery voltage

Maybe all 3 microswitches did go, but seems strange that this would happen

For the B-Pillar micro switch is that on the left side or right side of the car? I have been trying to access it with no luck, on the left side I have the heating socket for the hard top so not sure if it should be under that?

I pulled out the 2 cables from the motor but the internal cable came out of one, I could not see the motor moving when I pressed the switch

Anyway the thing is now I would like to take down the softtop to put on the hard top, can you advise if it it possible to manually drop the softtop?

Thanks, John

Edited November 17, 2012 by Ricey

[whall]

John,

Check out the following link:

http://www.renntech.org/forums/files/download/602-my03-boxster-986-owners-manual/

in particular, pages 149-151. The information is from a MY03 owner's manual but is probably the same for most 986's.

Hi Maurice!

Bill

[1schoir]

Hi Bill!

John:

If your double relay has a black square, it is the correct version for your year Boxster and you have the "B Version" transmissions and set-up. That also means that you don't have the traditional B-Pillar microswitch and don't have the black lever microswitch. Both of those have been moved to the INSIDE of the driver's side (left side) transmission in the B-version set-up.

If the electric motor is not spinning, apply 12 volts directly to the electric motor. If it does not spin, the motor is faulty or has a dead spot. If it spins but does not spin when you depress the switch, either the switch is faulty, the double relay is defective, or there is a fault/short in the wiring from the switch to the electric motor.

Here is a procedure I previously wrote up for manually lowering the top if it's stuck in the completely closed position (note that there are some symptoms that don't apply to your case, but the procedure is the same):

The easiest way I have found to access the 'works' if the top is stuck in the closed position is to partially and gradually open the top by using a cordless drill. Since you described the power drain and the loud cracking sound, your drive cables are probably intact and thus you can use this method after unlatching the top latch.

First, reach under or through one of the roll bar hoops so that you can grab the thin metal bar that runs from left to right and that is attached to the rearmost edge of the black vinyl apron under the rear bow of the convertible top frame. That long bar (flat metal bar with a 90 degree bend, about 2 1/2 feet long) is attached to the rear firewall in the convertible top well by means of two small plastic brackets or receptacles, one on each side, about 1 foot to each side of center, 8 to 10 inches from the level of the clamshell when it is in the closed position. Reach for one side at a time and twist it off the brackets by turning it down and rotating it towards you. That will free the vinyl apron from the firewall and give you access to the sides of the electric motor.

The electric motor is located exactly in the center of that rear firewall and, in a '97 also has a small lever mounted on the top of it. (Your 2000 will not have this small black lever) You will see the black vinyl sheath of each of the two drive cables going into the sides of the electric motor. There is a brass colored upside down U-shaped clip preventing each cable from being pulled out of the side of the electric motor. The U-shaped clip has a little tiny shelf at its top surface and that is what you should push upwards on to remove the clip. Once you have pushed the clip up and off, grab the cable where it goes into the side of the electric motor and pull it in an outboard direction. Do that on each side.

Once you have pulled the vinyl sheath off, you will see the inner steel (speedometer-type) cable sticking out by about 3/4 of an inch.

Put one of the inner cables into the drill chuck and set the power drill on a LOW TORQUE setting. Now operate the drill while observing the direction of rotation of the V-lever on that side. The V-lever is located just behind the base of the B-pillar, below the level of the top surface of the rear-quarter panel. If you are spinning the drill in the wrong direction, you will hear that loud cracking noise again as the black "hydraulic" pushrod pulls the half-moon gear past its last (50th) tooth and the top will NOT start to open. In that case, spin the drill in the opposite direction and you will see the top start to open slowly (Your B Version transmissions have teeth going all the away around the complete 360 degrees).

Just spin that side for a few seconds, then disconnect the drill from that side and insert the other drive cable into the chuck. Repeat the same procedure as above until the other side of the front edge of the top has reached the same spot at the side you did first. Then go a little further with that side.

Now just repeat, alternating each side and that will allow you to open the top until you get the clamshell in the 45 degree position. That will give you clear access to the electric motor so that you can re-insert the drive cables and then install the U-shaped clips to lock them in.

If for some reason your cables will not spin the V-levers, you will have to unbolt the 19mm Loctited bolt from the center of each V-lever. That will release both front and rear pushrods on each transmission and you can manually operate the canvas top and the clamshell. You can then install your hardtop. Take a look at page 19 of the Part II PDF at this link for a good photo of the 19mm bolts at the center of the V-Levers: https://sites.google.com/site/mikefocke2/installinga'03-'04glasstopandframeona'97

That should do it.

Regards, Maurice.

[Ricey]

Many thanks Guys

Your help is much appreciated

Maurice, you are a bank of quality information, I think you need to start your own site providing DIYs like Pedro.

I cant thank you guys enough for giving your time to assist me and others. Otherwise Id be knee deep in Porsche specialist bills, and in Ireland they dont come cheap

Will let you know how I get on

Cheers

John

[1schoir]

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Regards, Maurice.

[Ricey]

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Regards, Maurice.

Finally come to what I hope is the conclusion

There was no chance of using that Porsche toolkit bar to pull apart the ball joint, there is just not enough room, furthermore I was unable to see the second ball joint with the red top

I did pull the cables out of the motor and tried to drill them (in both directions) but the roof did not move at all. I think the internal part of the cable may have come out the other end as there is over an inch sticking out the motor end

Next I unscrewed the motor and took it inside, I cut the end off an old Nokia charger and put the wires to the motor but nothing, I then went back and put a voltmeter to the cable that plugs into the roof motor and had 12v when pressing the button

*** Strange thing is when the issue happened I had put the hood up to access the engine and it would only go up and not down, so the motor worked in one direction????

So it seems the issue is the motor is dead.

Going back to the failure codes

6. Convertible top locked . Connect measuring instrument to terminal 23 and terminal 14 (cowl panel frame micro-switch). volts should read = battery voltage

7. Convertible top locked . Connect measuring instrument to terminal 23 and terminal 29 (B-pillar micro-switch). volts should read = battery voltage

Does my car have these micro switches? I could not find them and there is no switch over the motor (986.624.117.00)

Thanks again guys

[1schoir]

Sounds like you are making progress.

...

*** Strange thing is when the issue happened I had put the hood up to access the engine and it would only go up and not down, so the motor worked in one direction????

A dead spot in the electric motor could give you that result.

...

Does my car have these micro switches? I could not find them and there is no switch over the motor (986.624.117.00)

Your 2000 Boxster does not have either microswitch in the "old positions". Both of those switches have been moved to INSIDE the driver's side (left side) transmission.

On a side note, you can sometimes just push the inner metal cable towards the transmission and it will re-engage so that you can spin the V-levers with the drill.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited November 18, 2012 by 1schoir

[Ricey]

Replaced the roof motor with a second hand one from ebay and it worked straight away

The second hand motor is a bit lacking in power compared with my last one but it got the job done for 37 euro :drive:

Thanks very much for your help and quality advise

[1schoir]

:clapping: :cheers: :clapping:

Thanks for confirming the fix!

Regards, Maurice.