Top replacement about to take place

[jimyboyle]

I got fed up with the top on my 1997 2.5 not locating in the B piller groove and decided to buy a glass window top. When i bought the car 15 months ago, the dealer had the plastic window replaced.

On removing the top I found.

2 screws missing from the front rail

1 screw missing from the side rail

the roof is attached to 2 aluminium plates above the doors with screws and speed nuts, all the screws present

but only 2 of the 8 nuts.

Canvas roof is located onto the centre rail and fixed with a spring clip. No clip and not located on the rail

There are plastic rails and sliders behind the B posts, these have pins that break, RH pins broken

It is a wonder the roof worked and yet it went up and down without complaint.

Anyway, at the rear bow the canvas is located in slots, mine was covered in contact adhesive,

in the slot and on top of the seal.

Can anyone who has replaced their roof confirm -

The flap of canvas that hangs down from the main canvas goes in the 1st slot with the wedge

the sort of T shaped seal goes in the middle slot and the main canvas in the big slot with the main seal and the double sided sticky tape. The T shaped seal was covered in adhesive, is the necessary?

Thanks

Jim Boyle

[juniinc]

Nope, I've done many 986 tops but never seen that yet!

T shape seal is supposed to only slide or poped out.

No glue please!

I got fed up with the top on my 1997 2.5 not locating in the B piller groove and decided to buy a glass window top. When i bought the car 15 months ago, the dealer had the plastic window replaced.

On removing the top I found.

2 screws missing from the front rail

1 screw missing from the side rail

the roof is attached to 2 aluminium plates above the doors with screws and speed nuts, all the screws present

but only 2 of the 8 nuts.

Canvas roof is located onto the centre rail and fixed with a spring clip. No clip and not located on the rail

There are plastic rails and sliders behind the B posts, these have pins that break, RH pins broken

It is a wonder the roof worked and yet it went up and down without complaint.

Anyway, at the rear bow the canvas is located in slots, mine was covered in contact adhesive,

in the slot and on top of the seal.

Can anyone who has replaced their roof confirm -

The flap of canvas that hangs down from the main canvas goes in the 1st slot with the wedge

the sort of T shaped seal goes in the middle slot and the main canvas in the big slot with the main seal and the double sided sticky tape. The T shaped seal was covered in adhesive, is the necessary?

Thanks

Jim Boyle

[1schoir]

I got fed up with the top on my 1997 2.5 not locating in the B piller groove and decided to buy a glass window top. When i bought the car 15 months ago, the dealer had the plastic window replaced.

On removing the top I found.

2 screws missing from the front rail

1 screw missing from the side rail

the roof is attached to 2 aluminium plates above the doors with screws and speed nuts, all the screws present

but only 2 of the 8 nuts.

Canvas roof is located onto the centre rail and fixed with a spring clip. No clip and not located on the rail

There are plastic rails and sliders behind the B posts, these have pins that break, RH pins broken

It is a wonder the roof worked and yet it went up and down without complaint.

Anyway, at the rear bow the canvas is located in slots, mine was covered in contact adhesive,

in the slot and on top of the seal.

Can anyone who has replaced their roof confirm -

The flap of canvas that hangs down from the main canvas goes in the 1st slot with the wedge

the sort of T shaped seal goes in the middle slot and the main canvas in the big slot with the main seal and the double sided sticky tape. The T shaped seal was covered in adhesive, is the necessary?

Thanks

Jim Boyle

Jim:

The factory installation normally has double-sided tape (not contact adhesive). When I replaced my top, there was double-sided tape in the base of the rearmost slot, underneath the flap of canvas, and also a strip of double-sided tape on the top horizontal surface of the T-shaped seal that is pressed into the middle slot. As juniinc says, there is no glue UNDER the T-shaped seal, it just presses in.

Here is a photo of what that area looked like when I first removed the rear section of canvas of the top.

You can see the remnants of the double-sided tape on the top surface of the T-shaped seal that has not yet been pulled out of the middle slot (click on the photo for a good look). The double-sided tape in that location helps reduce the possibility of wrinkles. 3M makes a decent double-sided adhesive tape, 3M part # 06384, available at any auto body paint store.

If you want to look at a detailed write-up for top removal and installation, go to this link: http://mike.focke.googlepages.com/replacingthetop-adiy

For more details on the area that you are inquiring about, look specifically at section 8 of the DIY.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited December 21, 2007 by 1schoir

[juniinc]

I must been confused. I'll take it back ,somehow I thought he was talking about upper bow.

U do have to apply some adhesive.

[jimyboyle]

Thanks, Maurice,

I have downloaded the instructions but my top had so much glue I got confused.

I tried to order the 'updated' sliders from my OPC but ended up with the same as I have already.

The foam seal above the doors that the instructions recommend changing does not seem to exist

on the Porsche PET system.

I have a CD i bought on EBAY showing all the parts, exploded views etc and

the foam seal is quite clearly illustrated, but the response to that was, cannot be a Porsche CD

and without a part number we cannot get it.

regards

Jim

[1schoir]

Thanks, Maurice,

I have downloaded the instructions but my top had so much glue I got confused.

I tried to order the 'updated' sliders from my OPC but ended up with the same as I have already.

The foam seal above the doors that the instructions recommend changing does not seem to exist

on the Porsche PET system.

I have a CD i bought on EBAY showing all the parts, exploded views etc and

the foam seal is quite clearly illustrated, but the response to that was, cannot be a Porsche CD

and without a part number we cannot get it.

regards

Jim

Jim:

You can use the shorter, old style, sliders as long as your new top has the 4" elastic strings that are attached to the edge of the top on each side behind the side windows. If your new top does not have them, you should cut those elastic strings off the old top and sew them in to the same spot on the new top, otherwise you run the risk of not having the cable not tucking in behind the sides of the window frame when you close the top. Are you sure you had the right part numbers for the updated sliders?

The foam seal definitely exists, but I think it may come as a part of a kit, which contains other parts that Porsche recommends you replace when you are replacing the top. When I did my top, the two seals came as part of the kit I mentioned, but my new top was a Porsche Factory top (bought on eBay from a guy who totalled his car before he had a chance to install his "expensive" top).

The photos that I included in the DIY should give you a good idea of what they look like, and you can improvise by making your own set. I've had others ask about that part number, but I was never able to track it down. You can use weatherstripping foam made by Frost King, available at Home Depot, to duplicate the parts. There was a wax paper lining on the bottom of each, which revealed an adhesive on the underside of the foam rubber. The Frost King weatherstripping has the same setup.

I have additional photos which will show you what they are made of and taken from other angles so that you can estimate the shape to make new ones. Let me know if you want to go that route and I will look for and post the photos.

Regards, Maurice.

[jimyboyle]

Maurice,

checked both tops, both are the same and have the piece of beading sewn into the top

where it locates onto the slider. Neither have any kind of 'elastic string'

I will go back to the Porsche dealer and try again for the updated sliders.

Funnily enough the problem with the old top was that it went to the outside of the B pillars when it went up. I replaced the little leaf springs but it made no difference. It meant I had to stop it when almost up and guide the top into the B pillar groove. Even then not good because it did not go down in the groove when it was fully closed but stayed about 1/4" clear.

Thanks for the time you are taking to help with this

Jim

[1schoir]

Maurice,

checked both tops, both are the same and have the piece of beading sewn into the top

where it locates onto the slider. Neither have any kind of 'elastic string'

I will go back to the Porsche dealer and try again for the updated sliders.

Funnily enough the problem with the old top was that it went to the outside of the B pillars when it went up. I replaced the little leaf springs but it made no difference. It meant I had to stop it when almost up and guide the top into the B pillar groove. Even then not good because it did not go down in the groove when it was fully closed but stayed about 1/4" clear.

Thanks for the time you are taking to help with this

Jim

Jim:

You are welcome, I just hope you can get it resolved completely because I know how frustrating it can be.

If you can't get the updated sliders from your local dealer, you can call either Sunset Imports or Suncoast Motors (board sponsor) and I'm pretty sure you can get them from either one of them.

The updated slider part numbers are 986 561 669 ?? (left side) and 986 561 670 ?? (right side). (It seems Porsche has changed the versions of these sliders back and forth, so I'm not sure of the last two numbers for the "extended" updated sliders [possibly 03]).

If you absolutely cannot get the updated sliders, here is a photo of that section of the convertible top (off the car), which shows the location of the elastic strings (#3 in photo) in relation to the holding straps (#4) (velcro'd and wrap around the metal tube on the inside of the top mechanism) and the pulling strips (#2) (with the piping that slides into the clamping rails).

The measurements are as follows: Arrow at #1 to arrow at #2 = 9 3/8 inches.

Arrow at #2 to arrow at #3 = 1 inch (or 10 3/8" from #1)

Arrow at #3 to start of edge of #4 = 4 3/4 inches.

Note that on a new top, the 1" between #2 and #3 has been "filled in" with a 1" longer pulling strip whose piping slides into and fills in the extra tab in the new, elongated slider. So, if you are going to sew in new elastic strings (see below) you would sew it in right next to the edge of the pulling strip (which is longer than the old pulling strip). In that case, you would still end up with a total length of 10 3/8 from #1 to the arrow at #3.

The elastic strips are 3/8" inch wide and 4 inches long from where they sew into the edge of the plastic piping to the center of where the plastic pin is inserted through the (doubled-up) elastic. If you want to, you can get some strong yarn (Porsche calls it "machine yarn #30, black) and sew on the elastic strings, according to the photo and measurements. (Note: there is no need for the elastic strips if you can get the "extended" sliders, and the new tops don't come with elastic strings.)

If the top was going outside of the B-pillars, and you had the old sliders (and changing the little leaf springs didn't help), then the problem was probably caused by the lack of elastic strips which pull on the top to help guide it into place. You also have to make sure that the velcro'd holding straps (#4) are not torn and that they are firmly wrapped around the metal tube as they slide back and forth as the top goes up and down.

Finally, back on the subject of the side convertible top foam seals, there is a part number for a kit from a TSB which dealt with rectifying flapping noises between the covertible top and frame. Since that repair involved peeling back the top, they had a kit which consists of a plastic foam mat, a long velcro strip and seals for the convertible top and roof frame. The part number is 000 043 300 45. If it's not prohibitively expensive, it might be a good alternative to making your own foam strips.

If anything is unclear, feel free to ask away!

Regards, Maurice.

Edited January 4, 2008 by 1schoir

[jimyboyle]

I've been back to the Porsche dealer. It seems the longer sliders have been superseded with a new short version and are no longer available. My car is at my office so I cannot compare the old and new to see what the difference is. I will do it after the holidays.

Jim

[jimyboyle]

Holidays over so back to the Porsche Centre. The sliders that appear to be the same as the originals, are the same when compared side by side. The parts man at the Centre has done some investigating and it appears there was another modification by Porsche for my year of car (1997) This is the replacement of the seals inside the grooves in the B pillar to guide the top into place. The replacements have little ears to guide the top. I have ordered these.

It is shown on a factory supplement sheet 9b/97 6128

The sheet also recommends straightening the return leaf springs for the slider, even if they are new.

we will see

[1schoir]

Holidays over so back to the Porsche Centre. The sliders that appear to be the same as the originals, are the same when compared side by side. The parts man at the Centre has done some investigating and it appears there was another modification by Porsche for my year of car (1997) This is the replacement of the seals inside the grooves in the B pillar to guide the top into place. The replacements have little ears to guide the top. I have ordered these.

It is shown on a factory supplement sheet 9b/97 6128

The sheet also recommends straightening the return leaf springs for the slider, even if they are new.

we will see

Jimmy:

What is the part number for the "little ears to guide the top" that you ordered?

Also, did you inquire about the "Convertible Top Retrofit Kit" that I mentioned above, which contains the foam seals (part #000 043 300 45). It shows that it's available from Pelicanparts.com at this link: http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearc...x=12&I1.y=5

If you decide to get it, you can get it from Suncoast or Sunset (board sponsor) for about 20% less.

As far as the return leaf springs, if they provide too much tension, they can cause the plastic covered cable rib to be pulled too much towards the inboard side of the guide channel, so be careful there.

Happy and Healthy New Year!

Regards, Maurice.

[jimyboyle]

Maurice,

i used your suggestion and got some foam from a DIY store and will use that.

The replacement seals for the B posts are

Left side - 986.561.905.00

Right side - 986.561.906.00

I don't think the sheets from porsche are too clear, the way i read it the fins, as they call them,

are to stop the fabric going to the inside of the post but the man at the Porsche Centre says

they are stop it going to the outside.

I should get them on wednesday so once i see them it will be clear what they do.

Jim

[1schoir]

Maurice,

i used your suggestion and got some foam from a DIY store and will use that.

The replacement seals for the B posts are

Left side - 986.561.905.00

Right side - 986.561.906.00

I don't think the sheets from porsche are too clear, the way i read it the fins, as they call them,

are to stop the fabric going to the inside of the post but the man at the Porsche Centre says

they are stop it going to the outside.

I should get them on wednesday so once i see them it will be clear what they do.

Jim

Jim:

Thanks for the part numbers. Perhaps when you actually get the parts you can post photos of them here.

I have done a thorough DIY write up that deals with the problem of the plastic-covered cable not falling cleanly into the guide channel, and I will post it in a few days if you need it.

Also, since you are doing your own foam seals, I will look for any photographs I may have of the seals and post them here as well later tonight, so that you can copy the shape, etc.

Regards, Maurice.

[1schoir]

Maurice,

i used your suggestion and got some foam from a DIY store and will use that.

The replacement seals for the B posts are

Left side - 986.561.905.00

Right side - 986.561.906.00

I don't think the sheets from porsche are too clear, the way i read it the fins, as they call them,

are to stop the fabric going to the inside of the post but the man at the Porsche Centre says

they are stop it going to the outside.

I should get them on wednesday so once i see them it will be clear what they do.

Jim

Jim:

Thanks for the part numbers. Perhaps when you actually get the parts you can post photos of them here.

I have done a thorough DIY write up that deals with the problem of the plastic-covered cable not falling cleanly into the guide channel, and I will post it in a few days if you need it.

Also, since you are doing your own foam seals, I will look for any photographs I may have of the seals and post them here as well later tonight, so that you can copy the shape, etc.

Regards, Maurice.

Jim:

Since you are going to make your own seals, here are the photos of the seals that I was able to find. These should give you a good idea of size, shape and location. Be sure to scrape away the (squashed) residue of the old seals and adhesive and clean the surfaces before applying your seals.

(Click on the photos to blow them up to full size)

These first two show the seal installed on the passenger's (right side) side.

This third one shows the seal for the driver's (left side) side before it is installed. You can see the white wax paper that is still attached to the underside of the seal with the adhesive. The yellow arrows show where those particular points end up when installed on top of the roof frame.

Be careful to leave a decent amount of space around each of the holes to avoid having the foam getting caught up and wound up in each of the four screws that will pull down the aluminum shoulder plate in place. If the cutouts are too small, the screws will rip up the foam in those spots.

If your car has the steering wheel on the right side, disregard the designations of "passenger" and "driver" and refer only to the designations that specify "right" and "left" sides.

Regards, Maurice.

[jimyboyle]

Picked up the parts today. They replace the U shaped rubber that fits over the inside leg of the groove on the B post and are clearly to stop the roof material going to the inside of the B post

[jimyboyle]

thought it was about time i posted an update on this saga. The Porsche shop ordered in the 03 series sliders for me. The packet was marked 03 but the sliders had 02 moulded on them so I took them back. Porsche UK told the dealer that all the packs were marked 03 but contained 02 sliders and that was the latest version. I said why is it identical to my original slider which does not work. The Porsche shop referred it back to Porsche UK and requested the longer sliders.

I got fed up waiting and on the 29th of january I faxed Porsche Germany with a sketch of the slider I wanted and explained my problem. Porsche UK phoned me 5 days later to say Germany had my fax and was working on the problem. I updated the Porsche shop who then in turn phoned Porsche UK. So still no resolution.

I really do not understand the time delay. The Porsche TSB mentions the longer sliders and why they are required. The parts disc i bought on ebay also shows them. You would think someone at Porsche would know what i am asking and say yes they are available or no, these are not required the 02 ones are correct.

Jim

[1schoir]

thought it was about time i posted an update on this saga. The Porsche shop ordered in the 03 series sliders for me. The packet was marked 03 but the sliders had 02 moulded on them so I took them back. Porsche UK told the dealer that all the packs were marked 03 but contained 02 sliders and that was the latest version. I said why is it identical to my original slider which does not work. The Porsche shop referred it back to Porsche UK and requested the longer sliders.

I got fed up waiting and on the 29th of january I faxed Porsche Germany with a sketch of the slider I wanted and explained my problem. Porsche UK phoned me 5 days later to say Germany had my fax and was working on the problem. I updated the Porsche shop who then in turn phoned Porsche UK. So still no resolution.

I really do not understand the time delay. The Porsche TSB mentions the longer sliders and why they are required. The parts disc i bought on ebay also shows them. You would think someone at Porsche would know what i am asking and say yes they are available or no, these are not required the 02 ones are correct.

Jim

Jim:

Following your saga.

FWIW, when I replaced my top (MY97), I replaced it with a factory top (got a great deal from someone who had bought it and totalled their Boxster before they could install it) and the top came in a box that had a small cardboard box inside. The small cardboard box contained, among other things (including those elusive foam seals), the longer sliders, which are the ones I installed with my new top. As I think I have said before, the longer sliders did away with the necessity of the 5" long elastic strings (see one of the photos I posted above), which served to pull the cable down into its proper position in the guide channel.

Considering how much work it is to install the canvas top properly, I would make sure to get the longer sliders before proceeding.

If you have a chance, could you post a photo of the "02" sliders that came in the "03" package? I am curious to see if they match the shorter sliders that I replaced.

Regards, Maurice.

[jimyboyle]

Here is the slider, Maurice.

It is visually identical to the original '00' slider from the car except the cutouts at the pen are a slightly different shape.

[1schoir]

Here is the slider, Maurice.

It is visually identical to the original '00' slider from the car except the cutouts at the pen are a slightly different shape.

Jim:

Thanks for that photo.

For comparison purposes, here is a photo of the "00" part (with the part number visible if you blow up the photo), which is the original one that came on my MY97:

I am now sorry I didn't take a photo or note the part number of the new longer sliders when I redid my top, but it does look like the one I sketched and posted previously.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited February 9, 2008 by 1schoir

[jimyboyle]

Here is the original 00 slider and the new 02 slider ( from the 03 bag ) together.

[1schoir]

Here is the original 00 slider and the new 02 slider ( from the 03 bag ) together.

Jim:

Excellent comparison photo!

Keep us posted.

Regards, Maurice.

[jimyboyle]

Phoned the dealer today who in turn called Porsche GB for an update. It seems the factory accept that the parts i have are wrong, should not be an 02 part in an 03 bag. Must have been difficult to work that out.

The problem is they don't have an answer on what to do yet.

I suppose it is only 6 weeks since i started complaining so maybe by the time summer comes the car will be back on the road.

Jim

[jimyboyle]

Maurice,

I have the final answer from Porsche, Germany.

The information that is available saying that the longer sliders should be used is out of date and will be re-written.

The 02 sliders are the correct up to date item and the only ones available from the factory for 986 Boxsters

That they are in 03 marked bags does not matter.

I have measured the 00 and 02 and there is a difference in the hole sizes and the slot width as well as the centre distance from the holes to the slot.

I have just measured from the side of the slot to the side of the hole and because they are on different levels it may not be exact but there is a difference.

I will commence with the assembly and see what happens.

Jim

[1schoir]

Maurice,

I have the final answer from Porsche, Germany.

The information that is available saying that the longer sliders should be used is out of date and will be re-written.

The 02 sliders are the correct up to date item and the only ones available from the factory for 986 Boxsters

That they are in 03 marked bags does not matter.

I have measured the 00 and 02 and there is a difference in the hole sizes and the slot width as well as the centre distance from the holes to the slot.

I have just measured from the side of the slot to the side of the hole and because they are on different levels it may not be exact but there is a difference.

I will commence with the assembly and see what happens.

Jim

Jim:

Thanks for the update and the measurements. I'm glad you got a definitive answer from Porsche.

I am surprised that the slot on the 02 sliders is actually narrower than the slot on the original 00 sliders as Porsche issued a TSB that actually called for the widening of the slot as one of the solutions to the plastic-covered cable falling outside of its guide channel.

The TSB stated that sometimes the slider does not slide back and forth freely and thus must be widened slightly. Maybe this aspect is taken care of by the new dimensions between the hole and the slot.

I am also wondering how they are now compensating for not having the longer leg on the slider, i.e., are they now recommending that you go back to using the 4" long elastic strings (see the photos I had posted with the measurements and location of these strings which are item 3 in post #8 above).

In the worst case scenario, if your cables falls outside the guide channels AFTER you have installed the top, I think you could still sew in a pair of the elastic strings, using the measurements I provided above, again in Post #8.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Regards, Maurice.

[jimyboyle]

It has been so long since i started this i cannot remember which way up the rear weather seal fits on the bow.

Can anyone confirm this is the correct way up