Engine Won't Start! Please Help

[Jinster]

I have had my 1997 Tiptronic Boxster for two months now. It has done about 110000km prior to my purchase. The car started fine from when I first got it, although sometimes it takes quite a good few seconds of ignition key to get it started and when it did, the revs tend to shoot up to about 2000rpm for a fraction of a second. I am not sure if that's normal on a Boxster.

But lately, I have had 3 episodes of the car not starting at all after a drive. I haven't had any problems with it starting cold, but after a drive, whether long or short, the car would sometimes not start when turning the key. If the normal starting noise is "kchikchikchikchi.... vroooomm", then what I am getting is just "kchikchikchikchi......". As I tried repeatedly to start it, sometimes the car would appear to have started but would then stall straight away. The previous two episodes, I was able to get the car started after about ten minutes of doing nothing - of not trying to start it.

I find that the car would just ""kchikchikchikchi......" if I keep trying to start it. If I leave it for 5 minutes, and then try, it would "kchikchikchikchi...... vroom" but then stall straight away. If I leave it for long enough, it would start (the first two times at least). The third episode happened mid-night tonight. I couldn't get it started at all despite leaving it alone for 30minutes at a time. The car had to be towed home after being stranded next to at a petrol station pump for 3hrs. I am very frustrated.

My impression is that the car starts when absolutely cold, but not when warm/hot.

{edit: I tried to start the car this morning after the incident, cold, the car wouldn't start, same problem... it now seems not heat related anymore}

The battery is fine, nonetheless I have already tried jump starting it anyway without success.

I have read something about a fuel pump is to blame?

This is as much info as I can gather for you at the moment. It remains to be seen whether the car starts tomorrow morning. {tried cold start, no go. Same problem when cold now}

Please help out. Many thanks in advance.

Edited April 16, 2004 by Jinster

[mrmickeymouse]

Hi,

It sounds like a heat related component problem. Maybe the DME or something to that effect. I have never encountered this problem with a Boxster.

I have however encountered this with other vehicles, and I would begin by checking fuel and spark. You will need to get it hot and then try to see if spark has gone away, or if fuel has stopped.

Fuel is really easy to begin with, listen for a buzzing noise, when you turn the key to the position were the red lights [idiot lights] go on. If there is no noise then you may have a fuel pump problem. You would need to check voltage on the wires going to the fuel pump, maybe just use a test light.

The spark would be more complicated, and I would advise having a Porsche friendly [reasonable priced-for diagnosis] shop check it for error codes which will or can show upon the PST2.

If you feel bold then pull a plug and see if you get a spark jump [after putting a old spark plug-or a test HEI test plug] on the car and see if you get spark.

I maybe way off with what I am saying, but it seems sensible and has gotten me through 30 years of car diagnosis.

What you are asking is hard to do thousands of miles away on another continent. I hope I helped. Hopefully others have encountered this problem and can tell you directly what the problem maybe.

Scott

[Jinster]

Thanks Scott. I will start checking those things tonight as I am at work now. An update though, I tried to start the car this morning, and "kchikchikchi...." nothing! So now the problem seems to be more permanent than heat related.

[Jinster]

There is a whining/buzzing noise after I switch the key to on position.

I can't get the car started and if it needs to go somewhere, it needs to be towed. I would like to know roughly the area of problem before I tow it somewhere.

Anyone have any suggestions as to the cause of this? Could it be the starter motor?

Edited April 16, 2004 by Jinster

[Highlander]

Classic fouled MAF sensor symptoms.

Easy to check. Get into the engine compatment and disconnect your MAF. If the car starts and runs fine, you have found the problem.

The MAF sensor is used to fine tune the mixture for emmissions. Disconnecting it will set a CEL, but the engine will run fine without it.. I drove 140+ miles no problems with a disconnected MAF after having similar symptoms.

The whizzing noise is a good thing. It means your fuel pump is working :)

Good Luck,

Graeme :)

Edited April 16, 2004 by Highlander

[mrmickeymouse]

For my edification, won't the Boxster do this automatically, without the MAF being disconnected.

Thanks,

Scott

[Highlander]

For my edification, won't the Boxster do this automatically, without the MAF being disconnected.

Only if the sensor goes bad. If it is sending erroneous (but still in-range) values, the results is poor/no start, poor idle, backfires and generally crappy running unless lots of throttle is used.

Graeme.

[mrmickeymouse]

Here is what you are looking at, or for:

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=659

[mrmickeymouse]

Here is a better example.

http://www.ppbb.com/boards/ppbbphp/showfla...true#Post763035

Hope this helps...

Scott

[Jinster]

Thanks for the suggestion Graeme and Scott. I opened up the engine bay and pulled out the MAP sensor connector. No use. The car still doesn't start.

I am getting desperate now. Any other suggestions or similar experiences?

[mrmickeymouse]

Hi,

My dilemma is since you are not in southern California, I cannot really help you. I believe by the sporadic operation it seems to be the fuel system. One part or another, When you say it takes a few cranks to get it to going originally, it sounded like fuel. I will stay with fuel, I have rarely seen sporadic spark, kind of either you have it or you don't.

What you are explaining to me almost sounds like a vapor lock condition, used to happen to older cars with air in the fuel line.

I thinks it is your original idea though, and that being the fuel pump.

I will try to give you as much advice as I can from here, just because you hear the fuel pump doesn't mean your getting fuel.

The buzzing when your key is turned on is your fuel pump switching on, good sign. It means the circuit is alive.

Let me ask, now it that will not do anything [besides turn over] , do you still hear the fuel pump buzzing. When turned on to "idiot light" state. All lights on the dash are light [telling engine status].

[Jinster]

Thanks for your help Scott, I really appreciate it.

I buzzing sound is still present when I switch the key to the position. I hear a whining sound from the front of the car, and a buzzing sound from the engine compartment.

I was just reading the service history of my car from the previous owner. Apparently during the 80000km major service, there was a "rectify engine pops and stalls repeated when cold on takeoff", for which the injectors and sublet were serviced and refitted with new seals, that according to the service invoice fixed the problem. The only similarity of this to my current problem is that the engine stalls. Could this be related? If so, is there a way to take out the injectors myself and "service" them myself with some sort of injector cleaner?

Edited April 18, 2004 by Jinster

[Tool Pants]

Do you have any engine fault codes? Have you been hooked up to an OBD2 code reader or the PST2. Otherwise it is like finding a needle in a haystack.

[Jinster]

Toolpants, my CE light has never been on. Is there a way to read the error codes at home without a dealer device? Otherwise I will need to tow the car to a Porsche Centre in order to get it checked out. I was hoping to diagnose this at home if it's just a small problem. But it doesn't look that way now....

P.S: It has been suggested to me that the DME relay could be responsible. I have swapped it out but it didn't help.

Edited April 19, 2004 by Jinster

[Jinster]

I took the car in to a Porsche service place in Melbourne, called Peter Fitzgerald Racing. They found that the previous owner had tapped into the fuel circuit after the relay with an immobiliser relay - and that relay was broken. So they just bridged it with a wire. Problem solved.

But they decided to charge me $700AUD for it coz they said the AFM is also stuffed and was replaced coz when the car started, it was running rough and not revving.

I think I have been jibbed coz surely it's just the relay that's causing the car to not start. Prior to this, I have had no problem with the AFM and the car ran fine without any CE lights.

Now that the AFM has been replaced, the car ran just as smooth as it did before changing the AFM - no difference! What a rip off for just a simple dead relay job.

[mrmickeymouse]

I had a fender bender with mine [someone decided not to stop], after the work was done, I told them I wanted the dealer to check it out for safety reasons.

I got the car back and found out they had done nothing to check things out, my wing was rubbing and they never picked up on that, you could hear it go up and down from inside [pretty obvious].

I asked them to align it also do to it being hit, guess what... never did that also...

I ended up taking it to small Porsche shop where they took care of my problems.

No more dealers for me...