Had the car one week tomorrow, and it's been in the shop.

[billyc]

UPDATE:

Okay. Just spoke to the dealership.

Service writer said they put in a "GO or no Go" tool where the seal goes. If it goes in with no resistance, everything is fine. If it does not go, it means the crankshaft is out of line.

WELL GUESS WHAT!!

SHOCKER!

they said the tool doesnt go in, and the car will need a new motor soon. they said it will also need a flywheel.

they informed me that the check engine light is because the crank is misaligned, and the flywheel is slipping.

I asked them to replace the seal, put the car back together, and let me drive it until it breaks.

Does this scream BS to anyone else??

------------------------------------------------

Hey guys.

I purchased a 2003 996 C2 Cab last Friday. I have been in the market for quite some time for Porsche. I knew about the RMS problems, so I purchased a warranty. I bought a Fidelity warranty, Gold plus coverage for 2 years, 24k miles.

I took the car to the local Porsche dealer (Capital Eurocars in Tallahassee Florida). I just wanted to get the "microswitch" fixed so the back windows would go up, and it would quit telling me that the convertible top was not in the locked position. I knew of the RMS, and also wanted them to fix this. Also, the check engine light was on, and the car seemed to be vibrating/running a little rough.

Well, they called me today. They have informed me that my warranty company is coming by to check out the leak. Okay, that's fine, apparently the warranty started on the day I bought the car, etc etc. ..I'm thinking.. WOW! that would be awesome if the warranty covered the RMS.. although I don't expect them to.

......then the warranty company calls me. They said that the the dealer is stating that the car may need a completely new engine, estimates $10k to repair. WHAT???

The warranty rep said he is sending someone by to inspect the car, but also wanted to let me know they want to get a second opinion due to the extensive amount of the repair.

I called the dealer, obviously curious what is going on with the motor. The service manager tells me that they haven't pulled the transmission until the warranty rep comes by, but with the car running so roughly, and the oil leak, that it could have a broken intermediate shaft and/or Cam. He said that this is the worse case scenario, but very possible. Does this seem right? I only got to drive the car 100 miles... and 40 of those were to the shop. I thought it pulled strong, but does skip and seem to run roughly.

Im pretty disheartened right now. This car has 68,000 miles on it, but you can NOT look at it and tell. it's spotless, clean carfax, one owner, and all service records, all done by this same shop. It may be a blessing if I get a new motor under warranty, but does this seem legit?

Thanks guys.

Edited December 12, 2007 by billyc

[der meister]

Well, the other guys here can give you better technical advice, but I'd say don't be disheartened -- be mad!

You only drove it 100 miles? Clearly (imho) the dealer must have known something was up with the car at 69k miles.

Good thing that you got the warranty, but you should make sure that either the warranty or the dealer covers this.

You might want to get some initial legal advice if they're saying new motor for $10k.

Good luck and obviously keep us posted.

[crstfr]

Check your states lemon law I got a 993 last year from a dealer and had the same problem $10k to fix. By mass law they had to fix the car or buy it back from me. I got all my money back with alot of efford put up a fight and get legal advise.

good luck

[viper501]

Frankly, it sounds to me, being the cynic that I am, that your dealer may be trying to take advantage of someone. If your engine had an IMS failure, it would not run. Period. There are a plethora of reasons that the CEL could / would be on including something as simple as a bad MAF sensor or O2 sensor or any number of other things.

On the other hand, if the warranty company picks up the tab for a new engine, you get a two year unlimited mileage warranty from Porsche on the replacement motor.

Having replace an engine at 126k miles, I would be very surprised if yours truly needed replacing given what you have described.

[billyc]

Viper- thanks for the info...

Just got an update call from the dealer. The car has been there all week, and they STILL have not removed the tranny. They have been waiting on the warranty company to inspect it. Warranty company came by, verified the leak, and closed the ticket, saying that I have to give authorization to remove the transmission, not them. Okay, so they have my permission, whatever.

When I got the check engine light scanned, it said random misfire, so I assumed plugs. I asked the tech about this and he said if the Intermediate shaft is broken, it can cause this light. So you are saying if the shaft is broken the engine won't run at all? The engine ran, and pulls strong through all rpm ranges. The check engine light will only come on under full throttle and over 5k rpms, then it flashes and stays lit until you reset it.

They are still saying they won't know until they pull the transmission if it needs a completely new motor.

It just does not seem like it needs a motor to me, but I guess I don't know.

[phillipj]

Hey guys.

I purchased a 2003 996 C2 Cab last Friday. I have been in the market for quite some time for Porsche. I knew about the RMS problems, so I purchased a warranty. I bought a Fidelity warranty, Gold plus coverage for 2 years, 24k miles.

I took the car to the local Porsche dealer (Capital Eurocars in Tallahassee Florida). I just wanted to get the "microswitch" fixed so the back windows would go up, and it would quit telling me that the convertible top was not in the locked position. I knew of the RMS, and also wanted them to fix this. Also, the check engine light was on, and the car seemed to be vibrating/running a little rough.

Well, they called me today. They have informed me that my warranty company is coming by to check out the leak. Okay, that's fine, apparently the warranty started on the day I bought the car, etc etc. ..I'm thinking.. WOW! that would be awesome if the warranty covered the RMS.. although I don't expect them to.

......then the warranty company calls me. They said that the the dealer is stating that the car may need a completely new engine, estimates $10k to repair. WHAT???

The warranty rep said he is sending someone by to inspect the car, but also wanted to let me know they want to get a second opinion due to the extensive amount of the repair.

I called the dealer, obviously curious what is going on with the motor. The service manager tells me that they haven't pulled the transmission until the warranty rep comes by, but with the car running so roughly, and the oil leak, that it could have a broken intermediate shaft and/or Cam. He said that this is the worse case scenario, but very possible. Does this seem right? I only got to drive the car 100 miles... and 40 of those were to the shop. I thought it pulled strong, but does skip and seem to run roughly.

Im pretty disheartened right now. This car has 68,000 miles on it, but you can NOT look at it and tell. it's spotless, clean carfax, one owner, and all service records, all done by this same shop. It may be a blessing if I get a new motor under warranty, but does this seem legit?

Thanks guys.

Billyc,

Seems highly unlikely that the car would run strong with a broken intermediate shaft. Look forward to what you find out! Dealers... Hmmmmm. :angry:

If you knew about the RMS, how much did you pay for the car? Just curious.

Phillipj

Edited December 6, 2007 by phillipj

[White987S]

Billyc, you should always have a Pre Purchase Inspection done prior to buying a Porsche, IMHO.

I hope your warranty company does you right, and that you are back on the roads soon!

[billyc]

Phillip--

I paid $37,000 for the car, as is..

here's how. I work for a dealership. we took this car in as a trade in. I had our service department review the car and everything seemed to be fine, but It had a minor leak, which I assumed was the RMS, everything else was fine. The car is spotless.. garage kept. PO claims he was never rough on it, and it has all service records from day one.

I drove it a few days before contracting up on it.. bought it and the warrant on November 30th.... but it wasnt until this past weekend when it threw the CEL and started running rough.. also when idling after warm, the check engine oil pressure light would come on. I marked this as well up to a RMS leak. I only got to drive it a total of 100 miles..

I still feel like I got a great deal on the car, but that will change if the dealer is correct about it needing a motor. I certainly had no idea.... but with it giving misfires codes, I don't think this is the case.

[phillipj]

Phillip--

I paid $37,000 for the car, as is..

here's how. I work for a dealership. we took this car in as a trade in. I had our service department review the car and everything seemed to be fine, but It had a minor leak, which I assumed was the RMS, everything else was fine. The car is spotless.. garage kept. PO claims he was never rough on it, and it has all service records from day one.

I drove it a few days before contracting up on it.. bought it and the warrant on November 30th.... but it wasnt until this past weekend when it threw the CEL and started running rough.. also when idling after warm, the check engine oil pressure light would come on. I marked this as well up to a RMS leak. I only got to drive it a total of 100 miles..

I still feel like I got a great deal on the car, but that will change if the dealer is correct about it needing a motor. I certainly had no idea.... but with it giving misfires codes, I don't think this is the case.

Billyc,

I hope you find out the cause of the codes. I hope your not in for a new engine (unless your warranty covers it.) Please let us know how everything turns out.

Thanks for the reply,

Phillipj

[demosan]

Phillip--

I paid $37,000 for the car, as is..

here's how. I work for a dealership. we took this car in as a trade in. I had our service department review the car and everything seemed to be fine, but It had a minor leak, which I assumed was the RMS, everything else was fine. The car is spotless.. garage kept. PO claims he was never rough on it, and it has all service records from day one.

I drove it a few days before contracting up on it.. bought it and the warrant on November 30th.... but it wasnt until this past weekend when it threw the CEL and started running rough.. also when idling after warm, the check engine oil pressure light would come on. I marked this as well up to a RMS leak. I only got to drive it a total of 100 miles..

I still feel like I got a great deal on the car, but that will change if the dealer is correct about it needing a motor. I certainly had no idea.... but with it giving misfires codes, I don't think this is the case.

billyc,

I also bought a car with an extended warraty from Fidelity that was transferred to me upon purchase. I haven't had to use it as of yet and it expires 01/08. My P is a 02 with only 29K miles and I am interested in renewing for a few more years. Was your 2 year warranty on your 03 expensive to purchase?? It will give me a benchamark to use in my dicsussions with Fidelity.

Good luck with your problem and I agree with others, it sounds more like an ignition problem rather than a intermediate shaft failure which as you know creates a total engine failure immediately after failure and takes the motor with it....

I'll be curious as to how Fidelity handles your situation and best of luck!! :cheers: demosan

[viper501]

Intermediate shaft controls the cams, all four of them, via a chain drive. If the shaft fails, the chain doesn't rotate and therefore the cams don't rotate. No way you have a broken intermediate shaft. The pistons slam into the valves and that's all she wrote for that engine.

The flashing CEL is something to be concerned about but I'd suggest that it is not related to the IMS. The thing I think I'd be curious about at this point is the state of the coil packs. They are notorious for developing cracks and failing. My experience is that high RPM tends to show ignition problems that won't appear at low RPM.

Personally, I'd find another dealer, or a good independent (preferred) who has a good reputation for Porsche work.

[White987S]

Sometimes the cheapest Porsche to buy is the most expensive one to own.

[KevinMac]

Don't think a leaky RMS will throw a check oil pressure light unless it was the oil level light.

[billyc]

Don't think a leaky RMS will throw a check oil pressure light unless it was the oil level light.

What would cause the light/warning?

[viper501]

Your check engine light, not check oil level pressure light, is most likely a result of a problem with ignition. There are a number of reasons that you could be getting that code. Are there any other codes?

[billyc]

Your check engine light, not check oil level pressure light, is most likely a result of a problem with ignition. There are a number of reasons that you could be getting that code. Are there any other codes?

I'll have to check and see.

Why would the Low oil pressure light come on? it only comes on after it warms up, and then only at idle. if I give it the slightest bit of gas, oil pressure goes back up.

When it drops, it goes slightly below the 1 mark.

[billyc]

Anyone have any idea about the oil pressure light?

[Loren]

The oil pressure sensor should be tested. They have been know to leak and fail.

[billyc]

The oil pressure sensor should be tested. They have been know to leak and fail.

Okay guys, should have an update today or tomorrow. I'll keep ya posted.

[billyc]

Just spoke to the dealership. they STILL HAVE NOT pulled the friggin' tranny!! So the car is STILL sitting still.

he assured me they will get it tomorrow. if not, Im going Thursday to pick it up and find another dealer.

Im stressed out because I don't know if the car needs a motor, or what it needs. Im still as much in the dark as I was a week ago!!

GRRRR!!

[3ball]

Just spoke to the dealership. they STILL HAVE NOT pulled the friggin' tranny!! So the car is STILL sitting still.

he assured me they will get it tomorrow. if not, Im going Thursday to pick it up and find another dealer.

Im stressed out because I don't know if the car needs a motor, or what it needs. Im still as much in the dark as I was a week ago!!

GRRRR!!

Billy, try calling Furrin Auto at (850) 222-6864. They handle VW and should have the capability to handle your job. They're located on West Tennessee Street, in front of FSU.

[billyc]

Okay. Just spoke to the dealership.

Service writer said they put in a "GO or no Go" tool where the seal goes. If it goes in with no resistance, everything is fine. If it does not go, it means the crankshaft is out of line.

WELL GUESS WHAT!!

SHOCKER!

they said the tool doesnt go in, and the car will need a new motor soon. they said it will also need a flywheel.

they informed me that the check engine light is because the crank is misaligned, and the flywheel is slipping.

I asked them to replace the seal, put the car back together, and let me drive it until it breaks.

:angry:

Does this scream BS to anyone else??

[wrljet]

Okay. Just spoke to the dealership.

Service writer said they put in a "GO or no Go" tool where the seal goes. If it goes in with no resistance, everything is fine. If it does not go, it means the crankshaft is out of line.

WELL GUESS WHAT!!

SHOCKER!

they said the tool doesnt go in, and the car will need a new motor soon. they said it will also need a flywheel.

they informed me that the check engine light is because the crank is misaligned, and the flywheel is slipping.

I asked them to replace the seal, put the car back together, and let me drive it until it breaks.

:angry:

Does this scream BS to anyone else??

If the crank is off center, the seal won't seal. That's why the sent those tools

to the dealerships, and why the motors are/were replaced.

But the flywheel isn't *slipping*.

[1schoir]

Okay. Just spoke to the dealership.

Service writer said they put in a "GO or no Go" tool where the seal goes. If it goes in with no resistance, everything is fine. If it does not go, it means the crankshaft is out of line.

WELL GUESS WHAT!!

SHOCKER!

they said the tool doesnt go in, and the car will need a new motor soon. they said it will also need a flywheel.

they informed me that the check engine light is because the crank is misaligned, and the flywheel is slipping.

I asked them to replace the seal, put the car back together, and let me drive it until it breaks.

:angry:

Does this scream BS to anyone else??

A flywheel cannot "slip". It is fastened by 8 hefty bolts to the end of the crankshaft, and also one keyway. So, unless all eight bolts have somehow backed out, and the flywheel is now held in place by spit, it is not slipping. If the crankshaft itself is moving side to side or up and down, the flywheel will move in the same way with it, but it is still not "slipping".

Ask them for a more rational explanation.

Regards, Maurice.

[billyc]

Any recommendations?

replace the seal, and drive the car as is until it locks up?

I don't have the extra $10k laying around. I wish Porsche would still pay half. but with me being the second owner, and it out of warranty, I don't see this happening.