Door speakers

[matthewjamesdunn]

I'd like to replace the stock door speakers with some decent sounding 3 or 4 way 5 1/4's while keeping the stock look. Like something I can just pop in (and will fit) and wire without any mods. Decent quality and reasonable ($100) that I can run off the stock 4 x 40 amp. The 6 1/2's are nice but I don't want to get involved with custom making an enclosure. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?

Matt

[PAULSPEED]

Hi,

I would talk to Cructhfield. They are

experts in car stereo stuff.

www.crutchfield.com

Paul

[Cassiebox]

I'd like to replace the stock door speakers with some decent sounding 3 or 4 way 5 1/4's while keeping the stock look. Like something I can just pop in (and will fit) and wire without any mods. Decent quality and reasonable ($100) that I can run off the stock 4 x 40 amp. The 6 1/2's are nice but I don't want to get involved with custom making an enclosure. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?

Matt

w/ only 40W driving each channel, you'll have a very difficult time finding 5 1/4's that sound better than stock. BTDT w/ three different attempts - 2 were worse, 1 was the same pathetic lack of low end. 40W is not a lot of juice to move a cone in 5 1/4"s to get decent low end. Plus, remember, the doors are only low range so even if you put in 3 or 4 ways, you still only get low end since the crossover is built into the amp. Seriously, if you can use a jigsaw, just get some decent quality 6.5" or 6.75" drivers and make a baffle. Andy M did a great over-all write up about a year or 2 ago in the DIY section called "Modifying the Boxster's sound system w/ out going broke" or something along those lines. Here's a link to the thread

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=9613

I added a template for the baffle towards the end - so it's pretty much plug n play. It's also on the Boxster wiki.

Edited November 24, 2007 by Cassiebox

[matthewjamesdunn]

Cassiebox, appreciate the input. Had a few questions, however. I'm no that savvy when it comes to audio vocabulary so I'm not sure what you mean by "crossover" and how I'll only be able to get lows from the stock amp. Does that mean there's no point in putting anything in the door besides subs if I'm only going to get lows anyway? I'd like to be able to get lows, mids and highs out of the door speakers and be able to closely match the continuous output of the amp (40 Watts) with the speakers. Will I not be able to do this without getting a new amp? The stock door speakers are non-existant as far as sound goes (I can barely hear them). I put Kappas under the dash but they are still only 4" speakers which can barely be heard at illegal highway speeds with the roof down.

Matt

[juniinc]

exactly! crossover meaning only certain frequencies can cross over to the speaker line out put. Your door speakers aren't exactly subs more like mid range. built in crossover should be cut off at 18db/octave 87-120 HZ for the mids.

I've seen many guys tried to up grade their door speakers my personal opinion is - it's not really worth it, I think factory amp is just terrible

unless u upgrade your amplifier no matter what u do to it, it's not going to make that much difference.

I have upgraded the whole system. in my case pair of Cliff design 5 1/2 s on both doors, 1" tweeters on the rear sliding pocket door w/ 3-1/2 s.

Going with 2 or 3 way speakers is not going to sound too good I don't think. I recommend u to consider using a pair of component system(separate mids & tweets)

Cassiebox, appreciate the input. Had a few questions, however. I'm no that savvy when it comes to audio vocabulary so I'm not sure what you mean by "crossover" and how I'll only be able to get lows from the stock amp. Does that mean there's no point in putting anything in the door besides subs if I'm only going to get lows anyway? I'd like to be able to get lows, mids and highs out of the door speakers and be able to closely match the continuous output of the amp (40 Watts) with the speakers. Will I not be able to do this without getting a new amp? The stock door speakers are non-existant as far as sound goes (I can barely hear them). I put Kappas under the dash but they are still only 4" speakers which can barely be heard at illegal highway speeds with the roof down.

Matt

Edited November 27, 2007 by juniinc

[Cassiebox]

Matt-

A crossover, in laymans term, is a filter. It removes all but the low end frequency/signals for the door speakers. On our Boxsters, it's built into the circuitry of the amp. I don't know what the exact cut-off freq is.... but suffice to say no mid or high freq get to the door speakers (and likewise no low end freq gets to the dash only mid and highs). Only way to accomplish full spectrum going to doors would be to replace amp.

Stock door speakers are only 5 1/4" which is difficult to get low end from w/ only 40W power due to size. Thus why they are enclosed in a "tuned port". This, in essence, attempts to make them function like a much larger cone in a larger enclosure (think along the lines of the bose wave radio 'marketing'). For what they are (5 1/4" paper cone woofers) they currently do the best job they can. In order to get good sound from the doors, you don't need to put subwoofers in there (you can if you want but probably overkill). Instead, I suggest a good set of 6 1/2", 6 3/4" or even 6x9" 2-ways that maximize what you have. You'll only be using the woofer part of the speaker still unless you also replace the amp. Regardless, choose speakers w/ at least:

• decent low end freq range - below 50Hz (the closer to 20Hz the better but 40-45 s/b adaquate)
  
• sensitivity rating of at least 92 dB (a measure of how efficiently speaker converts power into sound - the higher the better)
  
• a low RMS starting range (ideally 2W to something > 40W). This is how much power the speakers can handle continuously - the low # is basically the minimum amount of energy needed from the amp to power the speakers. We know the amp is 40W max so anything greater than 40W at the top of RMS is fine.
  
• Peak Power watts > 40W (again since we know stock amp is 40W)
  
• resistance - 2 or 4Ohm (my '99 had 2ohm OEM eventhough dash were 4Ohm but I've heard later MY have 4Ohm) This is the 'load' placed on the amp when speakers are powered.
  

The Boxster sound system (stock) is anemic. Yes it could use some more power, but really it has to do w/ clarity and efficiency. Some people run out and replace the amp w/ a 200W amp. You can do that, but all you'll end up getting is loud bad sounding tunes. IMHO, 40W per channel is sufficient (unless you're a major audiophile) it's just the crappy paper cone speakers PAG uses are a joke. You can spend thousands $$ upgrading the Boxster's system, but you seriously can get dramatic improvements for < $500. It all depends on the components, how efficiently they utilize power, and the soundstage you create.

A basic home theatre system has at least 3 main components which create a good sound stage:

front speakers, rear speakers and a sub

Of course, you can go crazy and add more 'sources' of sound like front center, rear center, and side speakers, etc. but you need these 3 basic elements to start. The Boxster in turn, to be a good sound stage, needs these components too to make a balanced system. Consider your door speakers to be the low (and sub). Now you need fronts and rears to match. Since you already upgraded the dash speakers (good choice BTW) they are out of balance w/ the doors based on sensitivity, resistance and freq. For every +1 increase in volume, your dashes are more efficient at converting that energy to sound and further exacerbating the weakness of the doors (which as you sited seems non-existent). Even w/ a stock system they are hard to hear/feel - but even more so now since you have decent dash speakers which over power them. I bet your system currently sounds exceptional bright and 'brass-y'? Do you find yourself leaning forward to hear music when driving? This is b/c the system is not balanced/focused where your ears are (but rather it's focal point is at the steering wheel since the dash speakers are so efficient) and bright b/c the dash (mids and highs) dramatically over power the doors.

I upgraded my '99s system w/ the following:

• added rear speakers (which you should too but will require some sort of custom enclosure since the '97 only has the vinyl bag instead of the carpeted pizza box)
  
• changed out dash speakers to infinity refrence 2 way (if I were to do it again I'd use the kappa series)
  
• changed out door to infinity kappa 6 3/4" and mounted on wooden baffle
  
• swapped out 4x40W amp w/ a 6x40W amp from a 996 (extra 2 channels to power the rear speakers - which can also be done by the head unit but at only 18W peak)
  

Each step above took under 3 hours to accomplish (4 evenings of work) and was done for a total < $450. I'm very pleased w/ the results and have had other Boxster owners inquire how it sounds so good but yet looks stock. Does it rival the ML system in my Lexus... absolutely not and nowhere close. But it is a 1000% improvement over what PAG calls the M490 HiFi Stereo option. Take a look at the link I posted earlier w/ Andy's write up. It's spot on. Changing out the door speakers will be even easier for you w/a '97 as you don't have side airbags to be fearful of.

Good luck and ask away w/ any questions. Hope this helps :)

[1schoir]

Matt-

A crossover, in laymans term, is a filter. It removes all but the low end frequency/signals for the door speakers. On our Boxsters, it's built into the circuitry of the amp. I don't know what the exact cut-off freq is.... but suffice to say no mid or high freq get to the door speakers (and likewise no low end freq gets to the dash only mid and highs). Only way to accomplish full spectrum going to doors would be to replace amp.

Stock door speakers are only 5 1/4" which is difficult to get low end from w/ only 40W power due to size. Thus why they are enclosed in a "tuned port". This, in essence, attempts to make them function like a much larger cone in a larger enclosure (think along the lines of the bose wave radio 'marketing'). For what they are (5 1/4" paper cone woofers) they currently do the best job they can. In order to get good sound from the doors, you don't need to put subwoofers in there (you can if you want but probably overkill). Instead, I suggest a good set of 6 1/2", 6 3/4" or even 6x9" 2-ways that maximize what you have. You'll only be using the woofer part of the speaker still unless you also replace the amp. Regardless, choose speakers w/ at least:

• decent low end freq range - below 50Hz (the closer to 20Hz the better but 40-45 s/b adaquate)
  
• sensitivity rating of at least 92 dB (a measure of how efficiently speaker converts power into sound - the higher the better)
  
• a low RMS starting range (ideally 2W to something > 40W). This is how much power the speakers can handle continuously - the low # is basically the minimum amount of energy needed from the amp to power the speakers. We know the amp is 40W max so anything greater than 40W at the top of RMS is fine.
  
• Peak Power watts > 40W (again since we know stock amp is 40W)
  
• resistance - 2 or 4Ohm (my '99 had 2ohm OEM eventhough dash were 4Ohm but I've heard later MY have 4Ohm) This is the 'load' placed on the amp when speakers are powered.
  

The Boxster sound system (stock) is anemic. Yes it could use some more power, but really it has to do w/ clarity and efficiency. Some people run out and replace the amp w/ a 200W amp. You can do that, but all you'll end up getting is loud bad sounding tunes. IMHO, 40W per channel is sufficient (unless you're a major audiophile) it's just the crappy paper cone speakers PAG uses are a joke. You can spend thousands $$ upgrading the Boxster's system, but you seriously can get dramatic improvements for < $500. It all depends on the components, how efficiently they utilize power, and the soundstage you create.

A basic home theatre system has at least 3 main components which create a good sound stage:

front speakers, rear speakers and a sub

Of course, you can go crazy and add more 'sources' of sound like front center, rear center, and side speakers, etc. but you need these 3 basic elements to start. The Boxster in turn, to be a good sound stage, needs these components too to make a balanced system. Consider your door speakers to be the low (and sub). Now you need fronts and rears to match. Since you already upgraded the dash speakers (good choice BTW) they are out of balance w/ the doors based on sensitivity, resistance and freq. For every +1 increase in volume, your dashes are more efficient at converting that energy to sound and further exacerbating the weakness of the doors (which as you sited seems non-existent). Even w/ a stock system they are hard to hear/feel - but even more so now since you have decent dash speakers which over power them. I bet your system currently sounds exceptional bright and 'brass-y'? Do you find yourself leaning forward to hear music when driving? This is b/c the system is not balanced/focused where your ears are (but rather it's focal point is at the steering wheel since the dash speakers are so efficient) and bright b/c the dash (mids and highs) dramatically over power the doors.

I upgraded my '99s system w/ the following:

• added rear speakers (which you should too but will require some sort of custom enclosure since the '97 only has the vinyl bag instead of the carpeted pizza box)
  
• changed out dash speakers to infinity refrence 2 way (if I were to do it again I'd use the kappa series)
  
• changed out door to infinity kappa 6 3/4" and mounted on wooden baffle
  
• swapped out 4x40W amp w/ a 6x40W amp from a 996 (extra 2 channels to power the rear speakers - which can also be done by the head unit but at only 18W peak)
  

Each step above took under 3 hours to accomplish (4 evenings of work) and was done for a total < $450. I'm very pleased w/ the results and have had other Boxster owners inquire how it sounds so good but yet looks stock. Does it rival the ML system in my Lexus... absolutely not and nowhere close. But it is a 1000% improvement over what PAG calls the M490 HiFi Stereo option. Take a look at the link I posted earlier w/ Andy's write up. It's spot on. Changing out the door speakers will be even easier for you w/a '97 as you don't have side airbags to be fearful of.

Good luck and ask away w/ any questions. Hope this helps :)

Cassiebox:

Thanks for taking the time to explain what is usually impossible to understand for an audio novice. Your detailed explanations have cleared up a lot of the question marks that remained in my head about how to improve the sound system in a Boxster, as well as exactly how the improvements are accomplished.

Regards, Maurice.

[matthewjamesdunn]

Cassiebox, appreciate all the useful info. That reply was above and beyond. Now I'm gonna get to work on it.

Matt

[juniinc]

100W or 200 Watter it doesn't really matter . Just because of the fact that every company rates their product differently. Yes I do agree a lot has to do with clarity and efficiency but most important thing LOW DISTORTION. That's why there are a few high end company like Phoenix gold,Hi phonics ,they rate their amps so low(competition series) -Phoenix Gold 40Watt mosfet power would have more power ,cleaner sounds than a Sony explode 400Watter.

Matt-

A crossover, in laymans term, is a filter. It removes all but the low end frequency/signals for the door speakers. On our Boxsters, it's built into the circuitry of the amp. I don't know what the exact cut-off freq is.... but suffice to say no mid or high freq get to the door speakers (and likewise no low end freq gets to the dash only mid and highs). Only way to accomplish full spectrum going to doors would be to replace amp.

Stock door speakers are only 5 1/4" which is difficult to get low end from w/ only 40W power due to size. Thus why they are enclosed in a "tuned port". This, in essence, attempts to make them function like a much larger cone in a larger enclosure (think along the lines of the bose wave radio 'marketing'). For what they are (5 1/4" paper cone woofers) they currently do the best job they can. In order to get good sound from the doors, you don't need to put subwoofers in there (you can if you want but probably overkill). Instead, I suggest a good set of 6 1/2", 6 3/4" or even 6x9" 2-ways that maximize what you have. You'll only be using the woofer part of the speaker still unless you also replace the amp. Regardless, choose speakers w/ at least:

• decent low end freq range - below 50Hz (the closer to 20Hz the better but 40-45 s/b adaquate)
  
• sensitivity rating of at least 92 dB (a measure of how efficiently speaker converts power into sound - the higher the better)
  
• a low RMS starting range (ideally 2W to something > 40W). This is how much power the speakers can handle continuously - the low # is basically the minimum amount of energy needed from the amp to power the speakers. We know the amp is 40W max so anything greater than 40W at the top of RMS is fine.
  
• Peak Power watts > 40W (again since we know stock amp is 40W)
  
• resistance - 2 or 4Ohm (my '99 had 2ohm OEM eventhough dash were 4Ohm but I've heard later MY have 4Ohm) This is the 'load' placed on the amp when speakers are powered.
  

The Boxster sound system (stock) is anemic. Yes it could use some more power, but really it has to do w/ clarity and efficiency. Some people run out and replace the amp w/ a 200W amp. You can do that, but all you'll end up getting is loud bad sounding tunes. IMHO, 40W per channel is sufficient (unless you're a major audiophile) it's just the crappy paper cone speakers PAG uses are a joke. You can spend thousands $$ upgrading the Boxster's system, but you seriously can get dramatic improvements for < $500. It all depends on the components, how efficiently they utilize power, and the soundstage you create.

A basic home theatre system has at least 3 main components which create a good sound stage:

front speakers, rear speakers and a sub

Of course, you can go crazy and add more 'sources' of sound like front center, rear center, and side speakers, etc. but you need these 3 basic elements to start. The Boxster in turn, to be a good sound stage, needs these components too to make a balanced system. Consider your door speakers to be the low (and sub). Now you need fronts and rears to match. Since you already upgraded the dash speakers (good choice BTW) they are out of balance w/ the doors based on sensitivity, resistance and freq. For every +1 increase in volume, your dashes are more efficient at converting that energy to sound and further exacerbating the weakness of the doors (which as you sited seems non-existent). Even w/ a stock system they are hard to hear/feel - but even more so now since you have decent dash speakers which over power them. I bet your system currently sounds exceptional bright and 'brass-y'? Do you find yourself leaning forward to hear music when driving? This is b/c the system is not balanced/focused where your ears are (but rather it's focal point is at the steering wheel since the dash speakers are so efficient) and bright b/c the dash (mids and highs) dramatically over power the doors.

I upgraded my '99s system w/ the following:

• added rear speakers (which you should too but will require some sort of custom enclosure since the '97 only has the vinyl bag instead of the carpeted pizza box)
  
• changed out dash speakers to infinity refrence 2 way (if I were to do it again I'd use the kappa series)
  
• changed out door to infinity kappa 6 3/4" and mounted on wooden baffle
  
• swapped out 4x40W amp w/ a 6x40W amp from a 996 (extra 2 channels to power the rear speakers - which can also be done by the head unit but at only 18W peak)
  

Each step above took under 3 hours to accomplish (4 evenings of work) and was done for a total < $450. I'm very pleased w/ the results and have had other Boxster owners inquire how it sounds so good but yet looks stock. Does it rival the ML system in my Lexus... absolutely not and nowhere close. But it is a 1000% improvement over what PAG calls the M490 HiFi Stereo option. Take a look at the link I posted earlier w/ Andy's write up. It's spot on. Changing out the door speakers will be even easier for you w/a '97 as you don't have side airbags to be fearful of.

Good luck and ask away w/ any questions. Hope this helps :)

Cassiebox:

Thanks for taking the time to explain what is usually impossible to understand for an audio novice. Your detailed explanations have cleared up a lot of the question marks that remained in my head about how to improve the sound system in a Boxster, as well as exactly how the improvements are accomplished.

Regards, Maurice.

[Cassiebox]

juniinc-

You certainly seem to be more well versed in this arena than I so your input is great. But please don't misinterpreted my post. I wasn't trying to plug any vendor or counter your previous post, etc. In fact while I was typing/putting my post together, you must have responded b/c it wasn't there when I started. D@mn work always gets in the way :D

Anyhow, I was just trying to give a generalized overview of why the current system is so bad and how to make modest improvements to it without dropping tons of $ or having to gut out the system completely and start over.

Regardless, I'm with ya... I doubt any audiophiles use the sony exploder series to power their systems ;)

[juniinc]

Thanks and LOL! yeah I agree :D

no I wasn't misinterpreting your post at all. In fact everything u said was pretty much on the dot!

I just said it in my post so ppl can make the right choice if they do purchase an amplifier.

juniinc-

You certainly seem to be more well versed in this arena than I so your input is great. But please don't misinterpreted my post. I wasn't trying to plug any vendor or counter your previous post, etc. In fact while I was typing/putting my post together, you must have responded b/c it wasn't there when I started. D@mn work always gets in the way :D

Anyhow, I was just trying to give a generalized overview of why the current system is so bad and how to make modest improvements to it without dropping tons of $ or having to gut out the system completely and start over.

Regardless, I'm with ya... I doubt any audiophiles use the sony exploder series to power their systems ;)

[strata22]

Cassiebox,

If I change the stock amp, would it change the whole notion of replacing the 5.25 door speakers with larger 6.5 or 6x9's? I'd like to stick with the 5.25 size speakers because there would be no modifications. What do you think? Also what do I look for in an amp? Thanks.

[por986]

Cassiebox,

If I change the stock amp, would it change the whole notion of replacing the 5.25 door speakers with larger 6.5 or 6x9's? I'd like to stick with the 5.25 size speakers because there would be no modifications. What do you think? Also what do I look for in an amp? Thanks.

To add my thoughts on this, the 'size' of the speaker is up to you. Just "Choose an amplifier whose power output matches (or exceeds) the power handling of the speakers you'll be amplifying. Make sure you're comparing the RMS power ratings of both the amp and speakers. And remember — it's better to overpower your speakers a little than to send them too little power."

[Cassiebox]

Cassiebox,

If I change the stock amp, would it change the whole notion of replacing the 5.25 door speakers with larger 6.5 or 6x9's? I'd like to stick with the 5.25 size speakers because there would be no modifications. What do you think? Also what do I look for in an amp? Thanks.

strata22-

It certainly can change the notion of replacing the 5.25" door speakers w/ a larger size but you'll most likely end up still needing to do some mods (explanation below). Regardless if you change the amp or not, you definitely want to change the speakers. Doubly so w/ a new amp. Again, clarity is a big issue and the paper cone stuff PAG uses just does not get the job done - period.

If you want to stick w/ 5.25", you certainly can. Remember though, you want new door speakers to get below at least 50Hz (and ideally at/below 40Hz to get any kind of low end). 5.25" speakers, naturally due to size, have an extremely hard time getting below 55Hz (w/ out needing lots of power). So.... w/ larger power requirements comes a larger/deeper speaker w/ a bigger magnet and deeper cone. Deeper speakers most likely will get you into trouble w/ clearance issues in the stock tuned port necessitating either modifications to it - or eliminating it completely and making a custom mount (IIRC the stock tuned port only has a clearance depth of 2-3/8" deep - or so). Don't forget, on speakers needing larger power requirements, you'll also need a larger/more powerful amp. Larger, more powerful amps will too require a custom mount on the firewall or floor in your front trunk. And it all comes full circle......

So you really want to have a good idea of what you want to accomplish completely with the system before you dig in (including budget-wise). Otherwise it's a slippery slope and you'll upgrade one portion and be disappointed. Then another and still be disappointed. And so on.... A well matched/balanced system is the key - enough power for the $ to make you happy and keep all the components in line and balanced - anything more is overkill.

In the end..... yes you can stick w/ the 5.25" size. If you do, in all likelyhood, you'll end up with more power than you really need for other components (amp, dash speakers, or rears) and spend more $ than needed just to maintain one aspect.... the 5.25" doors.

For amps, stick w/ good quality brands and go from there. I won't bash or recommend any brands but will say..... if you think you can get what you want/need at any "Mart" or Pep Boys, save yourself the time and frustration.... keep what you have stock. Instead, figure out a total budget. Then search through the archives here for quality brand names to find what other's have used and said about them etc.

PS- One side note before you dig in...... What MY do you have? Anything '03 or newer is fiber optic between the head unit and amp. As such, a new amp will most likely require also replacing the h/u too :(