Trans Bolt Hell!

[Baconaire]

1998 5spd 986 85k miles

I am endeavoring to replace my clutch (and posibbly flywheel and RMS). I broke the car down as instructed to the point of breaking the five bell housing bolts loose. For weeks there has been one bolt between me and progress: that dang 12 pt bolt (triple quare) nestled under the bell housing. (I know whey they used that bolt, there's no room for a regular hex bolt, or any tools for that matter).

In any event, I have broken 3 M10 triple square bits from Autozone (they come long and have a 1/2inch shaft, had to cut them short). Lots of PB blaster and carb cleaner in hopes of disolving the locktite. I am now prepared to bust the head of that thing off and once I get the bell housing off, weld a hex nut to it (I used this techinque on two broken header bolts with success).

My question is this- does anyone have a better technique? And I am assuming there are no threads in the bell housing, just in the crank case. So if I bust the head off with a chisel, will I have joy and finally be able to remove the bell? If I can get a cutoff whell in there, I'll do that, but I doubt there is room. HELP!

Edited November 20, 2007 by Baconaire

[albudracr]

As an IndyCar mechanic, I can tell you that most penetrants (PB Blast, WD40, TC-11, ZX-7) are about worthless on Loctite. (particularly Red High Heat, and Green Self-Wicking.) Locktite does make solvents to help these, but getting it to the threads is about impossible sometimes. The only constant solution that really works is heat. For tight jobs on our chassis, I have a pencil butane powered torch, and as long as you heat the head up good (1 or 2 minutes w/o a strong crosswind) and if you can get leverage on it, you can get it loose. As with any other open flame/auto repair combo, just use your head. And DON'T try to use a propane torch or god forbid acetylene or any such nonsense! You need precision, not quantity of flame. Cheap butane torches can be had at discount tool places like Harbor Freight for minimal investment, and come in handy all over the place (soldering large gauge connectors to wire 1/0 2/0 etc.) or reducing shrink tubing with care and speed. As an additional step you can shock it with an ice cube or two inbetween a few heat cycles, and it will help to shock the Loctite. Hope this helps. ;)

[albudracr]

Oh and as a second thought, as separate parts with an interference fit expand/contract separately, don't be afraid to heat the block and cool the bolt with the ice too. You might be able to contract the fastener, and expand the block slightly (think microns not millimeters.)

[Baconaire]

Thanks a lot. I was going to ask if it after heating and cooling the bolt itself, if when I try to break to bolt loose, should I not heat the block. But I think you answerd that. Let me see if I understand what you are saying: Heat the bolt to kill the loctite. Heat the block to expand the sorounding metal while cooling the bolt, then break it loose. Got it.

I have one of those little torches and will give it a try. I was concerned that heating a cooling the bolt would weaken it, but now that I think of it that's stupid, becuase that's what it does everytime I drive the car. Thanks a million.

[Tool Pants]

Years ago I saw Peter remove a 2.5 transmission in about 30 minutes. But he has a lift. Engine stand, and transmission lift.

He used a snap on cordless impact wrench. But he likes to use it on just about everything. If you can get your hands on an impact wrench.

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?s...1&hl=triple

[albudracr]

No problem, there Baconaire, Hope you kick it's ***! Let me know how it worked for ya. Yep sounds like you've got the proceedure down. The only reason I didn't mention the impact, is that I doubt there's room. Have a good Turkey Day!

[Baconaire]

I do have a battery powered impact driver. I recommend this tool as a must for any DIY mechanic. It's just torqey enough to keep me out of trouble. But it is true that there is no room in there for much of any tool. The best I've been able to manage is a 1/2 box wrench and a 12pt bit I had to cut down to fit and welded it to the wrench. But the bit breaks before the bolt breaks loose. I ordered what looks like a better stubby bit and will try the lil torch. It's just hard to get a good bite.

If that doesn't work, I'll just break out the cutoff wheel and butcher that bolt to the death. Once I get the bell housing off I'll weld a nut to the nub and use a nice long breaker bar. **** bolt.

[RFM]

There is no locktite on this bolts when new, perhaps some one did it after a RMS or clutch repair, but that is not smart. Use only the spec. torque.

[Baconaire]

I was assuming as many factory bolts have, they had a blue loctitish coating. I suppose it doesn't matter. The bolt is in there tight and I cannot get a good bite and good leverage on it. I tried the butyl heat to the bolt to no avail. I think my next step is cut the head off. I am assuming that the part of the shank near the head, that passes through the bell housing hole, is not threaded.

If I get the bit I ordered fast I'll try once more to get a good bite and heat the block. But I expect my last recourse will be to kill the bolt head without damaging the bell housing, but then I wonder what tool I'll be able to get in those close quarters. 4 1/2 grinder, dremel, and patience. There is just no room there.

I'll report back. Thank for the suggestions.

[RFM]

The blueish coating is a prevention against oxidation, same on the fly wheel bolts.

[Baconaire]

Ahh. It works.

[efahl]

Ahh. It works.

So you got it out? What specifically worked, heat on the block?

[kbrandsma]

I am replacing my RMS and I stripped the last bolt which was the 10 mm triple square (bottom one on driver's side). What a bear. I drilled one side off, then ended up using my Dremmel and cut of the nut as close as possible then I grinded the rest of the nut off. RMS photos below:

Going to also replace the clutch, change tranny and engine oil and also O2 sensors while I am at it. Have 52K on the clock and figured I would take care of a few things while I have it up and taken apart.

What is the best way to remove the old RMS seal?

K. Brandsma

Everett, Washington

98 Boxster

Edited May 1, 2008 by kbrandsma

[Stefan]

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/996rms/rms1.php

[RFM]

Drill a 4mm hole in the seal just where the points are, take a long philips screw and screw in half way, take pliers and pull the seal out. If you do it this way you cant destroy the crankshaft or the crankcase. You need special tools to install the new design seal, the seal sits deeper than the old one. There are 7 bolts to change, 3 x intermediate shaft ( do it one by one after you have drained the engine oil ) one above the crankshaft, one below the crankshaft and two on the bottom of the crankcase ( the dirty ones ) all M6. The new bolts have torx heads and are treated with product.

You got also oil leaks in the AOS area i think.

[kbrandsma]

Drill a 4mm hole in the seal just where the points are, take a long philips screw and screw in half way, take pliers and pull the seal out. If you do it this way you cant destroy the crankshaft or the crankcase. You need special tools to install the new design seal, the seal sits deeper than the old one. There are 7 bolts to change, 3 x intermediate shaft ( do it one by one after you have drained the engine oil ) one above the crankshaft, one below the crankshaft and two on the bottom of the crankcase ( the dirty ones ) all M6. The new bolts have torx heads and are treated with product.

You got also oil leaks in the AOS area i think.

Tell me more about what you see with the AOS. Link to more photos

http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii302/k...mview=slideshow

password:

guest

Thanks!

Edited January 18, 2008 by kbrandsma

[1schoir]

Drill a 4mm hole in the seal just where the points are, take a long philips screw and screw in half way, take pliers and pull the seal out. If you do it this way you cant destroy the crankshaft or the crankcase. You need special tools to install the new design seal, the seal sits deeper than the old one. There are 7 bolts to change, 3 x intermediate shaft ( do it one by one after you have drained the engine oil ) one above the crankshaft, one below the crankshaft and two on the bottom of the crankcase ( the dirty ones ) all M6. The new bolts have torx heads and are treated with product.

You got also oil leaks in the AOS area i think.

Tell me more about what you see with the AOS. Link to more photos

http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii302/k...mview=slideshow

Thanks!

The link says "This Album Is Private" and requires a password.

Regards, Maurice.

[kbrandsma]

Password is:

guest

[RFM]

Crankshaft seal - small amount of oil visible

Intermediate shaft seal - small amount of oil visible

Engine housing, flywheel area complete - very small amount of oil visible

Cyl. bank 2 - AOS area - bellows looks renewed

cyl. bloc - cyl. head and black crossbeam looks more oily than the rest

Cyl. bank 1 - OK

My opinion is, the major oil leak looks elsewhere.

[kbrandsma]

Crankshaft seal - small amount of oil visible

Intermediate shaft seal - small amount of oil visible

Engine housing, flywheel area complete - very small amount of oil visible

Cyl. bank 2 - AOS area - bellows looks renewed

cyl. bloc - cyl. head and black crossbeam looks more oily than the rest

Cyl. bank 1 - OK

My opinion is, the major oil leak looks elsewhere.

Thanks for your observations.

Oil on Cyl bank 2 appears to be fresh oil. Checked service records from previous owner. He had replaced the bellows 4K miles ago. Retightened bellows as the screw clamps had worked their way loose. I hope that was it.

Anyone else have thoughts on this matter.

Edited May 1, 2008 by kbrandsma

[Loren]

Crankshaft seal - small amount of oil visible

Intermediate shaft seal - small amount of oil visible

Engine housing, flywheel area complete - very small amount of oil visible

Cyl. bank 2 - AOS area - bellows looks renewed

cyl. bloc - cyl. head and black crossbeam looks more oily than the rest

Cyl. bank 1 - OK

My opinion is, the major oil leak looks elsewhere.

Thanks for your observations.

Oil on Cyl bank 2 appears to be fresh oil. Checked service records from previous owner. He had replaced the AOS, J tube and the bellows 4K miles ago. Retightened bellows as the screw clamps had worked their way loose. I hope that was it.

Anyone else have thoughts on this matter.

It should be fairly easy to check the AOS for cracks while the engine is out. If it is cracked it is much easier to replace with the engine out too. I think that was RFM's point.

Either way they should clean on the old oil so you can tell if you have any more leaks when you are done.

[RFM]

Fresh oil have to be in the engine not upon the engine certainly not at this area, so there must by a leak somewhere.

In case of leaking crankshaft seal the entire area is besmear with oil, not only one side.

This is my experience.

[kbrandsma]

Fresh oil have to be in the engine not upon the engine certainly not at this area, so there must by a leak somewhere.

In case of leaking crankshaft seal the entire area is besmear with oil, not only one side.

This is my experience.

Could a loose bellows clamp have caused it?

[RFM]

Yes or cracket filling pipe or .....

[Baconaire]

I decided to take a break until spring since I don't have a garage. I did start cutting down the triplesquare bolt and it seems like that would work. Heat didn't work. Hopefully I will be able to remove the bell and show that bolt who's boss. Welding a nut to the shank of the bolt worked great for several header bolts I broke.

At the time I wished I did not removed the headers, but once I got in there, there was a lot of carbon in header gasket in what looks like emissions channels. They were all clogged. So at least I was able to clean that up nice and reinstall some new header bolts.

I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for the help.