Can you powerslide a Carrera 2?

[Drift]

I realize this isn't the fastest way around a track but once I mastered this skill I do it quite often (and no I'm not part of the drifter movement.)

I'm currently shopping 02 C2s but really second guess it since I found out they don't have a limited slip diff. I'm not in the market for a gt3 but I thought about the 99 model without the limited slip but wanted something a little newer.

For my intented driving style, once I learn the car on a track, I'd probably turn off the stability system most of the time and again enjoy 'controling' the car during spirited drives.

For clarity I assume they will oversteer with a little off-on throttle upon turn-in but I'm asking if you can force the back end out exiting a 2nd gear corner and throttle steer it? Or does it just smoke the inside tire (how lame.)

[mpikounis]

Due to the heavy tail, the 911 behaves very well when oversteering even without an LSD. It is not like an M3 but compared to other cars without LSD the 911 is top. If this is such a major concern for you though, I suggest you buy the newest 911 you can afford and if you don't like how it power slides you can always add a Quaife aftermarket LSD which is probably the best LSD you can get (BMW M-differential excluded).

[Drift]

I seem to recall Quaife uses discs and clutches which usually make the car understeer more since it's "always locked" but I know they're used alot. Roughly how much and how difficult is it to install?

As in the past (althought I've never worked with a transaxle) I would likely pull the trans and take it somewhere for the install to reduce cost. Is this more trouble than it's worth on a 911? Again I've done some complex things but with cars that are more accessible than the 911.

[mwetter]

Here is my two cents worth... I bought a 2002 C2 back in June and was surprised to read that they do not have standard LSD. However, once I had the chance to drive mine in the rain, I swear it has a LSD. The car oversteers quite nicely and I never notice the "inside tire" spinning alone. I have driven other cars with LSDs so I feel qualified to recognize the difference. Maybe there is something else about Porsche that cuases this sensation that I am not aware of. My car does not have any "traction control" that could contribute to this either.

Hopefully someone will read this thread and help both you and I understand...

Shameless plug... I have just accepeted a new job in downtown Washington, DC and have to sell the car after only 5 months so if you want some details, let me know.

Good luck.

Mike

I realize this isn't the fastest way around a track but once I mastered this skill I do it quite often (and no I'm not part of the drifter movement.)

I'm currently shopping 02 C2s but really second guess it since I found out they don't have a limited slip diff. I'm not in the market for a gt3 but I thought about the 99 model without the limited slip but wanted something a little newer.

For my intented driving style, once I learn the car on a track, I'd probably turn off the stability system most of the time and again enjoy 'controling' the car during spirited drives.

For clarity I assume they will oversteer with a little off-on throttle upon turn-in but I'm asking if you can force the back end out exiting a 2nd gear corner and throttle steer it? Or does it just smoke the inside tire (how lame.)

[Drift]

Interesting.

I had a feeling that someone might have your experience. I figured that a 911 might feel like it had a LSD because so much weight is on the rear tires that it takes a lot of lateral g to break it loose and thus puts the car into a slide, oversteering rather that just spinning the inside wheel.

But enough theory - anyone else throwing it around - what's the word?

Oh and I wouldn't mind hereing the details of your 02, mwetter.

[Long Islander]

Interesting.

I had a feeling that someone might have your experience. I figured that a 911 might feel like it had a LSD because so much weight is on the rear tires that it takes a lot of lateral g to break it loose and thus puts the car into a slide, oversteering rather that just spinning the inside wheel.

But enough theory - anyone else throwing it around - what's the word?

Oh and I wouldn't mind hereing the details of your 02, mwetter.

I have a 2001 C2 with standard 17" tires, and the car plows heavily, especially when accelerating. I think Porsche was so concerned about tail-happy handling, that they tuned the suspension for a lot of understeer. I was told you could correct this problem by having a Porsche dealer do a GT2 (or maybe it was GT3) alignment, but I haven't done that.

[Drift]

I was thinking to add the GT2/3 adjustable rear sway bar as well. This should give you the option to dial it in to your liking. I'd really like to know if this would be enough so I wouldn't have to add a LSD.

[mwetter]

I will send you a PM with the details of my car...

Interesting.

I had a feeling that someone might have your experience. I figured that a 911 might feel like it had a LSD because so much weight is on the rear tires that it takes a lot of lateral g to break it loose and thus puts the car into a slide, oversteering rather that just spinning the inside wheel.

But enough theory - anyone else throwing it around - what's the word?

Oh and I wouldn't mind hereing the details of your 02, mwetter.

[mpikounis]

I seem to recall Quaife uses discs and clutches which usually make the car understeer more since it's "always locked" but I know they're used alot. Roughly how much and how difficult is it to install?

Quaife LSD does not use discs or clutches and it will last forever (http://www.quaife.co.uk/What-is-a-Quaife-ATB-differential). Regarding installation I am not sure on the 911 but usually it is a matter of replacing the inner part of the differential.

[LJPete]

The short answer is yes, you can get a 996 to oversteer but depending on what your used to power on oversteer is harder to get depending on your set up. Because the rear engine weight bias, the car's rear is really planted when accelerating. Many times, if you try to throttle on oversteer, you can get understeer because the wieght comes of the front end and on to the rear. This really is dependent on our suspension set up and aligment setup as the car stock is designed to understeer. If you had camber and sways the car becomes much more neutral.

My first 996 with an aggressive alignment, PSS9's with GT3 Sways and control arms was extremely neutral but even I had a tough time getting the rear out on corner exit acceleration. It is possible but tough in the dry. The easiest way to get my old car to tail out was lift mid-corner (trailing throttle oversteer) was just fantastic once you get used to it.

I have driven a 996 with LSD and without. You can tell the difference on an autocross as you will light up the inside tire on a car without it. Not nearly as bad as a FR car but it will break loose.

On my current 996, which is totally stock it actually will power out oversteer but this is primarily due to the smaller rear tires vs my old one (265 vs 285) and much softer suspension.

Some pics of me getting the tail out with TTOS and staying on the gas to drive sideways in my old car at a Street Survival Course last year.

[Drift]

I seem to recall Quaife uses discs and clutches which usually make the car understeer more since it's "always locked" but I know they're used alot. Roughly how much and how difficult is it to install?

Quaife LSD does not use discs or clutches and it will last forever (http://www.quaife.co.uk/What-is-a-Quaife-ATB-differential). Regarding installation I am not sure on the 911 but usually it is a matter of replacing the inner part of the differential.

So it's like a Torsen which I'm familar with. Definitely a great diff - does not cause the car to push and does not wear out.

[Drift]

The short answer is yes, you can get a 996 to oversteer but depending on what your used to power on oversteer is harder to get depending on your set up. Because the rear engine weight bias, the car's rear is really planted when accelerating. Many times, if you try to throttle on oversteer, you can get understeer because the wieght comes of the front end and on to the rear. This really is dependent on our suspension set up and aligment setup as the car stock is designed to understeer. If you had camber and sways the car becomes much more neutral.

My first 996 with an aggressive alignment, PSS9's with GT3 Sways and control arms was extremely neutral but even I had a tough time getting the rear out on corner exit acceleration. It is possible but tough in the dry. The easiest way to get my old car to tail out was lift mid-corner (trailing throttle oversteer) was just fantastic once you get used to it.

I have driven a 996 with LSD and without. You can tell the difference on an autocross as you will light up the inside tire on a car without it. Not nearly as bad as a FR car but it will break loose.

On my current 996, which is totally stock it actually will power out oversteer but this is primarily due to the smaller rear tires vs my old one (265 vs 285) and much softer suspension.

Some pics of me getting the tail out with TTOS and staying on the gas to drive sideways in my old car at a Street Survival Course last year.

Can't get your pics - only shows a couple of red Xs. Maybe it's because I'm on dail-up? I'd like to see them.

Good description of the handling. When you lift-throtle oversteer, can you get back on the power and hold it or do you just counter steer and add a little throtle to re-load the rear?

I guess the LSD discussion makes me wonder if I should get a 99 with factory LSD. What type is it and is it only the cars without stability management system (is that how I can tell if it has one)?

Edited November 21, 2007 by Drift

[Drift]

Did a lot of reading about LSDs.

One question that I did not find the answer is for the stock 99 C2 with 220 code LSD, what type is it (torsen or clutch)? I found where they are around 20/40% lockup.

I assume it's a clutch type which will probably need rebuilding on a 99.

If this is the case and I have to go into the diff then it doesn't matter what year I get, it's probably not much more to add an LSD as it is to rebuild one. Anyone experienced either?

Edited November 25, 2007 by Drift

[LJPete]

That was the tricky part of it which depends on your setup. If my tires where cold I could get the rear out with adding throttle once I lifted and got the rear to step out. Once the tires warmed, it became much more difficult when I loaded the rear with weight and the added grip made the car very difficult to kick the rear out.

Keep in mind that you are trying to defeat the innate advantage of having the weight in the rear by prolonging the drift. TTOS is what makes this car tons of fun on an autocross course as if you enter a turn too hot, all you have to do is slightly lift the throttle and let the rear rotate to where you want it, then roll back on throttle to stop the rotation.

As for the LSD I believe it's a clutch type that is offered on the 99's. Mine still worked on both my old one and my current one.

Here are the regular links to the photo's (going around a dry skidpad)

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n120/LJ...nstruct_018.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n120/LJ...nstruct_019.jpg

Hope this helped,

Pete

Edited November 26, 2007 by LJPete

[Drift]

Thanks Pete. Makes a lot of sense about using TTOS as an advantage. That may be enough fun in itself. We shall see.