Intermediate Shaft Failures

[berty987]

Whilst in the OPC today, I saw a 2004 997 Carerra with the engine and transmission removed. Talking with the service assistant he told me the intermediate shaft had failed and the engine was out for complete replacement !! The intermediate shaft issue seems to affect all 997 and 987 cars fitted with engines from 2.7 to 3.8 except the 3.6l unit fitted to the Turbo and GT3 (these use the 993 bottom end). Whilst Porsche have just celebrated the 100,000 th 997, I'm sure not all cars are prone to failure , but Porsche do not seem to have a reason for it either. This is a little disconcerting as there does not appear to be any warning or check for failure. The car in question had covered 30,000 miles , is there any record of the mileages that other intermediate shafts have failed at ? Are we all sitting on a time bomb ?

[White987S]

Tick tock...tick tock.

[Tool Pants]

Tick tock...tick tock.

Boom!

[macsak]

it seems to me, if they are gonna fail, they fail early

i had one on a 2002 986s, and another on a 2004 550 se

aloha

steve

Whilst in the OPC today, I saw a 2004 997 Carerra with the engine and transmission removed. Talking with the service assistant he told me the intermediate shaft had failed and the engine was out for complete replacement !! The intermediate shaft issue seems to affect all 997 and 987 cars fitted with engines from 2.7 to 3.8 except the 3.6l unit fitted to the Turbo and GT3 (these use the 993 bottom end). Whilst Porsche have just celebrated the 100,000 th 997, I'm sure not all cars are prone to failure , but Porsche do not seem to have a reason for it either. This is a little disconcerting as there does not appear to be any warning or check for failure. The car in question had covered 30,000 miles , is there any record of the mileages that other intermediate shafts have failed at ? Are we all sitting on a time bomb ?

[gaspasser19]

They didn't make the 997 until 2005.

[berty987]

Actually gaspasser, though its called a 2005 model year , many cars in Europe are actually registered and sold during 2004. Here in the Uk you can tell the age of the car by the number / registration plate. The car in question was registered in 2004. My 987 was made and registered in 2004 also.

[Tool Pants]

This is why I have to ask people from the UK their model year.

If I went down to my local California Porsche dealer today, in October 2007, and bought a 2008 model, it would be registered as a 2008 vehicle.

No so in the UK.

We will have to see if Porsche fixed the boom.

[stickshiftnz]

Wanting to have a second-hand Boxster someday, I’ve been studying these sites to find out what I’d be up against. Unlike many modern cars, the Boxsters don’t seem to have a lot of inherent build problems – no bad batches of coils or thermostats, windows falling off tracks, faulty ABS and ECUs, automatic/CVT faults, or bad oil pumps, despite using the same suppliers as humbler vehicles. Common problems like the RMS or air-oil separator are more nuisance issues, but won’t render the car useless.

But man, that intermediate shaft scares me. Inherent problems on modern cars are usually detectable, preventable (e.g., plastic impeller water pumps), fixable, surmountable, or at least affordable enough to rectify, for good. But it appears that no amount of care, maintenance, prayers, babying, love, attention, awareness, or knowledge could warn, prevent, or explain this functionally and financially debilitating problem.

Sure, it’s just probable rather than inevitable. I’m under no illusion that you can run a Porsche cheap, but anything that prevents a full engine replacement still drops costs to something more palatable. (Of course, I’d be foolish not to buy a warranty).

Does this turn me off Boxsters (or Porsches)? No, because solve that problem (even putting up with the RMS), and it’s the perfect all-around car. For now though, this mystery must be the equivalent of cot death.

[berty987]

Yes , I think cot death about sums it up, also something that occurs when you beleive the infant mortality risk has been passed.

Toolpants, the pics you posted , are they a 996 engine ? It looks like the whole bottom end casting has fractured , was this down to the bearing on the intermediate shaft failing or the shaft itself ?

[RFM]

997 and 987 MY 2005 have still the old engine with the RMS and intermediate shaft problem. From MY 2006 all engines have the revised shaft and seal ( WPOZZZ99Z(6)S****** ).

[berty987]

So there have been no RMS or more importantly no intermediate shaft failures on MY 2006 cars or later ?

[White987S]

So there have been no RMS or more importantly no intermediate shaft failures on MY 2006 cars or later ?

I doubt it, Berty987. Maybe just a lower occurance rate.

[eslai]

So there have been no RMS or more importantly no intermediate shaft failures on MY 2006 cars or later ?

I doubt it, Berty987. Maybe just a lower occurance rate.

My 2005 987S got RMS'd, let's see if it gets IMS'd too. :P Thankfully I have an extended warranty...

35,000 miles and counting...

[rustct]

My '03 Porsche Boxster 2.7L just had intermediate shaft failure and now my extended warranty company "Warranty Direct" will not cover the damage because they said they cannot prove I have been driving it around with an oil leak. I am looking for some official statistics that show that it is a common failure. Do you guys have any suggestions?

I stopped driving the car as soon as I saw that the car dumped out all its oil in the parking lot.

[Tool Pants]

When the intermediate shaft fails then the oil dumps on the ground. Don't know what else to tell you that would help with your claim.

[berty987]

rustct, take a look on boxa.net there is a guy with a 2003 boxster that pressed porsche for a new engine and won ! look for the posts of andyratford. How many miles has your car covered ?

[pomocanthus]

My '03 Porsche Boxster 2.7L just had intermediate shaft failure and now my extended warranty company "Warranty Direct" will not cover the damage because they said they cannot prove I have been driving it around with an oil leak. I am looking for some official statistics that show that it is a common failure. Do you guys have any suggestions?

I stopped driving the car as soon as I saw that the car dumped out all its oil in the parking lot.

The burden of proof is on them to prove that you DID drive the car w/o oil in it. You don't have to prove to them that you didn't. I suggest you send them a written and signed request (certified with delivery/signature confirmation) stating the facts and include the estimate from Porsche for engine replacement. Be VERY clear about the details of when the failure happened. Give a deadline of when you expect an answer from them. Make sure you keep the signed return receipt of your letter.

A written letter will show that you're just not going to go away and it is evidence that you tried to make a claim. If they do not reply then it is the same as denying your claim. You then have the option to take to courts with lawyer or represent yourself in small claims court. I threatened the small claims court route and strong-armed my extended warranty company to pay $5K of the $7K it took to replace engine core. Unfortunately, they had a clause in the contract that they can replace with "like or equivalent" parts. I read this as OEM vs non-OEM but they interpretted as "comparable age" parts. I didn't want to pay a lawyer to try and get the $2K. The $2K difference was for a new core from Porsche vs getting a used core from 3rd party.

Good Luck,

Hung

[Tool Pants]

I was at a local dealership on a Saturday, so the mechanic working on this car was not around. There is a flange/bearing support bolted to the engine with 3 bolts. In the picture the flange has been removed, but you can see the 3 threaded holes for the bolts. If the mechanic had been there I would have asked to see the flange and the bolt in the middle that shears off.

You can see the balls from the failed bearing.

It was a 2003 or 2004 2.7. Good news is I did not see a leak from the RMS. Bad news is, the owner needs a new engine due to an intermediate shaft failure.

[berty987]

Very clean looking engine..was this another low mileage incident where the car is only used occasionally?

[Mr. D-987 S]

Just curious, I bought my early '05 last year and it is CPO. I'm just under 12k miles. If I experience this IMS failure *fingers crossed*, I shouldn't have any problem with getting it replaced in the CPO period, right? Seems those that had problems with warranty had a 3rd party warranty company.

After the CPO period is up (another 2 years) guess I'll have to look for a decent warranty company. ;-)

[White987S]

Just curious, I bought my early '05 last year and it is CPO. I'm just under 12k miles. If I experience this IMS failure *fingers crossed*, I shouldn't have any problem with getting it replaced in the CPO period, right? Seems those that had problems with warranty had a 3rd party warranty company.

After the CPO period is up (another 2 years) guess I'll have to look for a decent warranty company. ;-)

I would think if you properly drive (no over-revs) and maintain the car, the CPO would replace your engine if you suffered an IMS failure.

[Phantom_86]

Hi Guys,

My dad currently owns a 2005 Boxster S that just had an intermediate shaft failure. Porsche has denied any claims so far. the car is out of warranty coverage but has only done 31k miles and has been babied at the Porsche dealer with oil changes/services. Does anyone know anyone or anything that can help our case??? Thanks!!!

[logray]

I would keep pestering the dealer. I've heard of a few cases like this where Porsche will meet in the middle with repair costs and perhaps in some rare cases cover them.

[atld]

Just to add myself to the statistics, my 2005 Boxster had 27,000 miles when the IMS failed, all service done by the dealership, and never been abused etc. In fact, most people say I drive like a grandmother, haha.

My failure occured while coasting down a long downgrade. Simply heard a chime and the check engine light came on. I blipped the throttle and no reaction. I coasted into a nearby lot and had the car towed to the dealership. The car was still under warranty and when they recieved it, they advised there was parts of engine broken off in the compartment. I heard no noise or vibration to indicate there was a failure and I didn't even see an oil puddle etc.

It took the dealer about 6 weeks to repair. Kinda long imho but given the entire engine had to be ordered and replaced, I understood. Plus, I got a Cayenne loaner for the entire time that I didn't mind one bit.

The car now has 41,000 miles so I still think I'm pretty easy on it.

Any chance the new engines are prone to the same failure? Anyone have experience of a repeat failure?

Adam

[logray]

...Any chance the new engines are prone to the same failure? Anyone have experience of a repeat failure?Adam

Hopefully your car was under CPO so there was no out of pocket!

The new M96/M97 based engines, although they have a larger unserviceable bearing are still susceptible to failure.

Only the newest 911 engine has the IMS removed from the design entirely.

Edit: drive it hard! :)

Edited October 10, 2011 by logray