Crank case damage or cosmetic issue?

[RJFabCab]

Take a good look at my crank case and tell me what you think. There are three pics.

996 GT3 crank case

The car was at a local shop for a tech inspection and while they were loading it onto a nice Rotary lift, I was checking out some of the old P-cars in the shop.

I turn around and guess what I see... the arse of my car is in the air being jacked up by the bottom of the crank case! :soapbox:

No, I'm NOT a fan of jacking up the car by the case.

The car was too low to get on the lift, so they jacked the rear from the case to get the lift under the four jack points. I didn't notice them jacking up the rear since I was checking out other rides. :eek:

When the inspection was done, they had to jack the rear again to get the car off the lift.

I checked the case bolts and all seems tight. No obvious cracks or leaks in the case anywhere, however, there is a large indentation in the vertical fin of the left side of the case (outlined in the link above). I think the indentation is where the rough edge of the jack met the case.

Should I be worried about the crank case or is this just a cosmetic issue that should never have occurred in the first place?

Edited October 26, 2007 by RJFabCab

[Loren]

Jeez... tell them to buy a hockey puck.

I think you are ok if there are no further cracks on chips.

[RJFabCab]

Jeez... tell them to buy a hockey puck.

I think you are ok if there are no further cracks on chips.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm angry at myself for not keeping an eye on them... but should I HAVE TO??? :angry:

Loren, do you know of any failures (either in the case or at the tranny interface) related to jacking the vehicle from the case? Surely, the case wasn't 'designed' for that.

The mechanic is from a Porsche race team in the 80's out on the west coast. Unbelievable.

[Loren]

Well, you can certainly cause damage if you jack at the wrong places - or if the jack slips.

IMHO you are less likely to cause damage on a GT3 or TT engine than a Boxster/Carrera engine - because the case structures are quite different.

[clord]

Hi RJ.... There is a lot of disagreement on whether it's OK to lift the rear of a 911 (with the classic engine case, not the flat bottom as Loren points out) with a floor jack under the engine case. I've seen 911's lifted that way forever with no obvious damage......I've seen factory trained techs lift them that way.....even Turbos and recent GT cars that are heavier in the rear than the early cars. I've seen our local trusted certified tech list my own GT3 a few inches to get it on his lift. BUT, all that said, I don't lift my own car that way myself and don't ever plan to. Personally, I just think it's safer not to. If you have ever had an air cooled (or later GTcar) engine apart, you can envision the engine case structure. It's there to support the crank, barrels, heads, flywheel, etc. There is a nice mating flange to the two side of the case, but, it is definitely not a factory intended lift point. I've never seen any factory material recommending the case as a lift point. I can just imagine the lifting forces radiating through the case material from a localized lift/contact point on the bottom of the case. Also, Porsche has gone to great lengths to lighten the rear end of a 911 over the years (magnesium cases for engine and transmission come to mind) and I'll bet they have not added extra material to the engine case to accomodate lifting there. I'm sure others might have different opinions on the subject....this is just mine. That said, and given that I've not ever seen obvious damage as a result of lifting at the case, I'd say that no obvious damage has been done to your car.

[Brad Roberts]

Loren, do you know of any failures (either in the case or at the tranny interface) related to jacking the vehicle from the case? Surely, the case wasn't 'designed' for that.

I have been dealing with GT3 Cup cars and street cars since the first Cup cars came over from Kadach (German firm that sells used Cup cars) Not one time have I seen a failure or heard of one (and I deal with shops and race teams 24/7)

You are correct in saying: the case was never designed for that, but it was also not designed for 1000hp twin turbo setups (but they work fine)

I'll see if I have a recent pick of your "Made in Spain" engine case and show you the internal webbing. You'll see quickly that is "Ok" to lift them there. Your case really isn't much different than all the cases before it (66-98) and we have been lifting 911's like this since 1966 (not me.. I was born in 70.. lol) but you get my point.

Now, that being said, The tech who lifted the car should be *shown* how to use a small piece of wood in the center of the jack pad to keep this from happening.. or they need to BUY the proper pieces for their lift if they are going to TOUCH 986/996/997 chassis'

I'd be miffed also

B

[RJFabCab]

Hi RJ.... There is a lot of disagreement on whether it's OK to lift the rear of a 911 (with the classic engine case, not the flat bottom as Loren points out) with a floor jack under the engine case. I've seen 911's lifted that way forever with no obvious damage......I've seen factory trained techs lift them that way.....even Turbos and recent GT cars that are heavier in the rear than the early cars. I've seen our local trusted certified tech list my own GT3 a few inches to get it on his lift. BUT, all that said, I don't lift my own car that way myself and don't ever plan to. Personally, I just think it's safer not to. If you have ever had an air cooled (or later GTcar) engine apart, you can envision the engine case structure. It's there to support the crank, barrels, heads, flywheel, etc. There is a nice mating flange to the two side of the case, but, it is definitely not a factory intended lift point. I've never seen any factory material recommending the case as a lift point. I can just imagine the lifting forces radiating through the case material from a localized lift/contact point on the bottom of the case. Also, Porsche has gone to great lengths to lighten the rear end of a 911 over the years (magnesium cases for engine and transmission come to mind) and I'll bet they have not added extra material to the engine case to accomodate lifting there. I'm sure others might have different opinions on the subject....this is just mine. That said, and given that I've not ever seen obvious damage as a result of lifting at the case, I'd say that no obvious damage has been done to your car.

Craig, thanks for the reply.

I know guys have been lifting from the case for years... I'm just not a big fan of the procedure for the reasons you list above. It is reassuring, however, to have the input from Brad's post.

The indentation from the jack looks cosmetic. Late last night when I was trying to look at the case I felt some ridges near the indentation but I didn't really get a good look at things since it was late and I was dog tired. I thought something may have been bent or compromised, however, I later realized that those ridges are simply cast into the case.

I'm peeved that the guy didn't use something to protect the case like a piece of wood or a hockey puck!!!

[RJFabCab]

Loren, do you know of any failures (either in the case or at the tranny interface) related to jacking the vehicle from the case? Surely, the case wasn't 'designed' for that.

I have been dealing with GT3 Cup cars and street cars since the first Cup cars came over from Kadach (German firm that sells used Cup cars) Not one time have I seen a failure or heard of one (and I deal with shops and race teams 24/7)

You are correct in saying: the case was never designed for that, but it was also not designed for 1000hp twin turbo setups (but they work fine)

I'll see if I have a recent pick of your "Made in Spain" engine case and show you the internal webbing. You'll see quickly that is "Ok" to lift them there. Your case really isn't much different than all the cases before it (66-98) and we have been lifting 911's like this since 1966 (not me.. I was born in 70.. lol) but you get my point.

Now, that being said, The tech who lifted the car should be *shown* how to use a small piece of wood in the center of the jack pad to keep this from happening.. or they need to BUY the proper pieces for their lift if they are going to TOUCH 986/996/997 chassis'

I'd be miffed also

B

Thanks, Brad.

It was a loooooooooong day at work and I'm just now catching up on all this! As noted in my response to Craig, I felt some ridges near the indentation last night and was too tired to figure out what was really going on... I thought those ridges may have been something bent or compromised. Later I realized that the ridges are cast into the case.

The 'dent' looks cosmetic. BUT IT STILL P*SSES ME OFF!!! LOL

Thanks for the reassurance and if you find those pics of the inners of the Spain cases please post them. :thumbup: