used oil analysis - 07 Box S, 7574 miles

[paulv]

here's my used oil analysis for those of you who enjoy this sort of stuff.

Regards,

paul...

Edited October 19, 2007 by paulv

[boggtown]

How much do those usually cost? And how much oil should you send them?

[efahl]

Got it...

http://blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html

[White987S]

Paulv, will you do this for every oil change?

[paulv]

Paulv, will you do this for every oil change?

Yes I will and I'll develop a spreadsheet to graphically trend the data. I've done this before for other cars I've owned.

Boggtown: the basic analysis from Blackstone is $22.50 -- I usually send it priority mail which is another ~ $4. When you take a sample, collect it when the oil is about half way draining.

Regards,

paul....

[White987S]

Paul, let's say the graphs start pointing in directions what you don't like. Then what do you do? Hypothetically speaking.

[Richard Hamilton]

Paul - the viscosity at 100C is shown as 11.4 cSt which is quite a bit down on the Mobil 1 spec sheet of 14.3 cSt. From your past experience, is this typical?

[paulv]

Paul, let's say the graphs start pointing in directions what you don't like. Then what do you do? Hypothetically speaking.

Start thinking of trading the car for something else! But seriously, I would need to identify why those trends are happening, what parts are affected, consider repair approaches.

Regards,

paul....

[paulv]

Paul - the viscosity at 100C is shown as 11.4 cSt which is quite a bit down on the Mobil 1 spec sheet of 14.3 cSt. From your past experience, is this typical?

Richard,

Good point. When I filled out the sample form for Blackstone, I indicated M1 0W-40 because I assumed that it was the factory fill. From the narrative on the top of the analysis, Blackstone said that factory fills are in a 30 weight grade range, so this is why the KV100 value wasn't in the SAE J300 required 12.5 - 16.3 cSt range.

If this isn't true, and Blackstone and I are both wrong, then the oil sheared down like crazy.

Regards,

paul...

[White987S]

Paul - the viscosity at 100C is shown as 11.4 cSt which is quite a bit down on the Mobil 1 spec sheet of 14.3 cSt. From your past experience, is this typical?

Richard,

Good point. When I filled out the sample form for Blackstone, I indicated M1 0W-40 because I assumed that it was the factory fill. From the narrative on the top of the analysis, Blackstone said that factory fills are in a 30 weight grade range, so this is why the KV100 value wasn't in the SAE J300 required 12.5 - 16.3 cSt range.

If this isn't true, and Blackstone and I are both wrong, then the oil sheared down like crazy.

Regards,

paul...

Paul, another good reason to change the factory fill early. Do you agree with this strategy? I did the first oil change at about 1,300 miles.

[paulv]

Paul, another good reason to change the factory fill early. Do you agree with this strategy? I did the first oil change at about 1,300 miles.

I believe that it's a good idea to change the factory fill early (earlier than what the manufacturer recommends for a first oil change), but I wouldn't do at 1300 like you did. This is because I've seen two independent articles disputing the 3000 mile oil change as the oil needs to be "broken in" and most wear occurs between 1000-2000 miles after the oil change. I would go with an initial change somewhere between 3000-5000 miles -- mind you, this isn't based on any scientific evidence, only my opinion. I did mine at 7500 miles because I've decided that this will be my change interval. My reasoning is that I'm driving in commuter traffic on a highway with my work about 25 miles away, so I have concerns about moisture in the oil not evaporating. Considering oils (i.e., Motul 8100 series, RedLine, etc) that have a lot of esters in them tend to hold water more than mineral/PAO based oils.

Regards,

paul...

[Westcoaster]

Paul, another good reason to change the factory fill early. Do you agree with this strategy? I did the first oil change at about 1,300 miles.

I believe that it's a good idea to change the factory fill early (earlier than what the manufacturer recommends for a first oil change), but I wouldn't do at 1300 like you did. This is because I've seen two independent articles disputing the 3000 mile oil change as the oil needs to be "broken in" and most wear occurs between 1000-2000 miles after the oil change. I would go with an initial change somewhere between 3000-5000 miles -- mind you, this isn't based on any scientific evidence, only my opinion. I did mine at 7500 miles because I've decided that this will be my change interval. My reasoning is that I'm driving in commuter traffic on a highway with my work about 25 miles away, so I have concerns about moisture in the oil not evaporating. Considering oils (i.e., Motul 8100 series, RedLine, etc) that have a lot of esters in them tend to hold water more than mineral/PAO based oils.

Regards,

paul...

This is very interesting, since this is the first 'new' Porsche that I have owned, and am taking through break-in I was wondering the same thing. They spec the first oil change at what 30,000 km or 2 years which ever comes first!

I am coming up to one year and 15,000 km and wondering about flushing that 'break-in' oil and debris out...

[paulv]

This is very interesting, since this is the first 'new' Porsche that I have owned, and am taking through break-in I was wondering the same thing. They spec the first oil change at what 30,000 km or 2 years which ever comes first!

I am coming up to one year and 15,000 km and wondering about flushing that 'break-in' oil and debris out...

Considering that the kinematic viscosity was out of spec at only 7500 miles, I wouldn't wait 2 years or 30000km to change the oil!!! Once a year or 10000 miles is a good oil change interval -- Mercedes recommends this for all their AMG motors and 13000 miles for all other models, and when I had an 03 E320 prior to my Box, I changed the oil when the inboard computer said so (approx 15000 miles) and the TBN value was at 2.6. I don't know for a fact, but I would speculate that the TBN would fall dangerously below 2.0 when hitting 20000 miles.

If you're leasing your car, I would stay with the factory recommendation, but if you own the car and want to keep it for a while, go with 7500 mile but not more than 10000 mile intervals -- my opinion.

BTW, the PCA tech list on their website recommends 7500 mile changes.

Sorry I didn't express everything in metric units.

Regards,

paul....

[PTEC]

I love seeing these, thanks for posting.

[paulv]

I love seeing these, thanks for posting.

In another post, I mentioned that I've generated a spreadsheet (with graphs) to trend this stuff. If you want a copy, let me know.

Regards,

paul...

[Westcoaster]

This is very interesting, since this is the first 'new' Porsche that I have owned, and am taking through break-in I was wondering the same thing. They spec the first oil change at what 30,000 km or 2 years which ever comes first!

I am coming up to one year and 15,000 km and wondering about flushing that 'break-in' oil and debris out...

Considering that the kinematic viscosity was out of spec at only 7500 miles, I wouldn't wait 2 years or 30000km to change the oil!!! Once a year or 10000 miles is a good oil change interval -- Mercedes recommends this for all their AMG motors and 13000 miles for all other models, and when I had an 03 E320 prior to my Box, I changed the oil when the inboard computer said so (approx 15000 miles) and the TBN value was at 2.6. I don't know for a fact, but I would speculate that the TBN would fall dangerously below 2.0 when hitting 20000 miles.

If you're leasing your car, I would stay with the factory recommendation, but if you own the car and want to keep it for a while, go with 7500 mile but not more than 10000 mile intervals -- my opinion.

BTW, the PCA tech list on their website recommends 7500 mile changes.

Sorry I didn't express everything in metric units.

Regards,

paul....

Thanks for the detailed reply Paul, although I would one day like to move up to a 'S', for now this is what I have so taking care of it is important.

I do agree that 7500 miles or not more then 10000 miles is much more realistic a change interval. I just past the 1/2 way mark specified in the manual for the change interval, so as long as I can find the oil and filter I think that it would be a good idea to do it now. There is lots of 5w30 Mobil 1 available locally, but 0w40 is tougher to find...

BTW, as for the units of measure, no worries, I am equally conversant in both!

Last thing, are there any issues with the factory warranty by changing the oil more often?

[White987S]

Westcoaster, I can't see how Porsche would void a warranty for changing the oil more often than required, but I do think changing the oil every 3,000 miles for example could in fact increase wear.

I agree with many others that one a year or every 7-10,000 miles, whichever happens first, is the better plan.

Now, people who do DE's and etc do a different schedule, and probably should.

[Westcoaster]

Westcoaster, I can't see how Porsche would void a warranty for changing the oil more often than required, but I do think changing the oil every 3,000 miles for example could in fact increase wear.

I agree with many others that one a year or every 7-10,000 miles, whichever happens first, is the better plan.

Now, people who do DE's and etc do a different schedule, and probably should.

Agreed, so now I am just searching for a filter and the oil, off to WalMart at lunch to see what they have, here in Canada they also have a store, Canadian Tire, they carry Mobil 1 as well, but I have yet to see it in the gallon jug, only quart (liter) sizes.

The stealer probably wants an arm and a leg for the filter! Every time I buy a part from them I check the price list before I go and they consistantly charge more then the MSRP for parts, sometimes a lot more! I wouldn't be surprised to find that it is over $30...

Edited November 5, 2007 by Westcoaster

[paulv]

Westcoaster, I can't see how Porsche would void a warranty for changing the oil more often than required, but I do think changing the oil every 3,000 miles for example could in fact increase wear.

I agree with many others that one a year or every 7-10,000 miles, whichever happens first, is the better plan.

Now, people who do DE's and etc do a different schedule, and probably should.

Agreed, so now I am just searching for a filter and the oil, off to WalMart at lunch to see what they have, here in Canada they also have a store, Canadian Tire, they carry Mobil 1 as well, but I have yet to see it in the gallon jug, only quart (liter) sizes.

The stealer probably wants an arm and a leg for the filter! Every time I buy a part from them I check the price list before I go and they consistantly charge more then the MSRP for parts, sometimes a lot more! I wouldn't be surprised to find that it is over $30...

Westcoaster,

Since you're a contributing member here, you can look at the TSB for the Approved Oil List (early this year), so you're not restricted to just Mobil 1 0W-40. What you'll see is that there are many oils (mostly 5W-40) available. I wouldn't run an xW-30 in a Porsche, and heavier oils could cause problems with the VarioCam system. You can buy your OEM filters from Sunset which is on this site -- I already bought a bunch of stuff from them and I'm happy with their prices/service.

I also agree with White987S' comments. The Blackstone site has a link to some guys who did a Synthetic Oil Study (Mobil 1 and Amsoil) and they showed how most of the wear is in the first 2-3000 miles after the oil has been changed. In addition, one of the oil companies (forgot which one) came out with a study supporting the same conclusions.

Regards,

paul....

[Bob Z.]

Great reading but what is the bottom line - my '08 Boxster S is on order so when should I do it's first oil change?

[White987S]

Great reading but what is the bottom line - my '08 Boxster S is on order so when should I do it's first oil change?

Bob, I did my first oil change at about 1,300 miles. I always do this with my new cars. Overkill? Possibly. Peace-of-mid? Yes, you bet!

You should change your oil once every year or between 7,500-10,000 miles, IMHO.

[paulv]

Great reading but what is the bottom line - my '08 Boxster S is on order so when should I do it's first oil change?

Bob,

Congrats on the new Boxster. IMO, I would go with the 7500 mile oil change intervals that the Tech Q&A recommends on the PCA website. I've decided to follow that (as mentioned above). As far as dealer recommendations, some dealers say to go with the 20000 mile changes as the factory recommends, and my dealer said to change it at 10000 miles.

My bottomline was decided because I bought the car and didn't lease it. If I leased it, 20000 miles oil changes at the dealer would be it.

Regards,

paul...

[White987S]

You know what is strange? The 2005-2007 Boxster had a 20,000 mile oil change interval based on Porsche's maintenance book. Now, for 2008 they are saying 12,000.

Why the change?

[efahl]

Why the change?

Too many customers giving them crap about the 20k change interval?

[paulv]

Why the change?

Too many customers giving them crap about the 20k change interval?

Do the 2008 models have direct fuel injection? I've heard that people with other [non-Porsche] cars have noticed fuel diluted oil problems with this technology (at the high performance end).

Regards,

paul...