Does Top shut off automatically at limits (up & down)?

[pk2]

Hello,

My top open indicator light, according to the manual is your signal to let got of the button and thus stop the top movment in it’s tracks. Someone here stated that there’s stops when the light goes on. Would this be an improvement on later models? It seem completely logical: If a signal from the microswitches can turn the light on and off, it sure as heck could stop the top.

If it is indeed a function on later models (mines a 99). Could I fit mine with a later model double relay/controller to get that function? Any body heard of a circuit “hack” to do it? I can’t think of why it wouldn’t have been done in the first place. It seems a slight jiggering of wires would do it…put the user out of the cycle.

Regards, P.K.

[geraldsmolen]

I doubt there is such a "hack". In the previous year my top motor drive has overdriven the top and bent the left main transmission arm twice. I am in the process of getting a third arm for the drive transmission as the top system seems to lose its sense of position. As an interesting side note, my dealer insists that I replace both drive transmissions ($1500) to correct the problem. Neither transmission has any electricals (mircroswitch), only mechanical gearing, so it appears this issue is more software (sequencing?) related.

Jerry :o

[1schoir]

I doubt there is such a "hack". In the previous year my top motor drive has overdriven the top and bent the left main transmission arm twice. I am in the process of getting a third arm for the drive transmission as the top system seems to lose its sense of position. As an interesting side note, my dealer insists that I replace both drive transmissions ($1500) to correct the problem. Neither transmission has any electricals (mircroswitch), only mechanical gearing, so it appears this issue is more software (sequencing?) related.

Jerry :o

Jerry:

In Boxsters with the newer style transmissions (after May 99), the B-pillar microwswitch was moved to the psgr side transmission.

Regards, Maurice.

[Chris_in_NH]

Hello,

My top open indicator light, according to the manual is your signal to let got of the button and thus stop the top movment in it’s tracks. Someone here stated that there’s stops when the light goes on. Would this be an improvement on later models? It seem completely logical: If a signal from the microswitches can turn the light on and off, it sure as heck could stop the top.

If it is indeed a function on later models (mines a 99). Could I fit mine with a later model double relay/controller to get that function? Any body heard of a circuit “hack” to do it? I can’t think of why it wouldn’t have been done in the first place. It seems a slight jiggering of wires would do it…put the user out of the cycle.

Regards, P.K.

you may be misunderstanding the manual's instructions regarding the conv top dash light. if the light is lit, the conv top is open or cycling. if it is off, the conv top motor should not be running, and you should not have to release the button to stop the top from moving (it should be at the end points of the up or down cycle).

the way it works in my '97 is the conv top light goes on while the top is cycling (in between full forward (up) and full rearward (down) positions) and you know the cycle is completed when the light goes OFF (and the motor should stop automatically). does your motor stop automatically on the down cycle (top open) but not on the up cycle (top closed)? or does it just not stop at all?

the reason that the light is on during the cycle is to alert you that the top is not fully closed. when the light goes off, you know that the top is fully closed (up) or open (down). driving with the top not fully open or closed could lead to top damage, as well as aerodynamic changes, so i think the way the light works is well thought-out. it sounds like your top is not timed correctly. if it was, then the motor would stop automatically when you got to the full-up or full-down positions in the cycle. either that or one of the microswitches is not functioning correctly.

you can always stop the top's movement by releasing the button at any time (unless you have one of those one-touch boxes that saves you from having to hold the button down - but i would hope that the mfr thought of this and if you push the button again during the auto cycle, it will stop the top, but i'm not sure if they do this).

I doubt there is such a "hack". In the previous year my top motor drive has overdriven the top and bent the left main transmission arm twice. I am in the process of getting a third arm for the drive transmission as the top system seems to lose its sense of position. As an interesting side note, my dealer insists that I replace both drive transmissions ($1500) to correct the problem. Neither transmission has any electricals (mircroswitch), only mechanical gearing, so it appears this issue is more software (sequencing?) related.

Jerry, it sounds like something is wrong with that transmission. as you stated, it's already destroyed 2 pushrods, and just might destroy a third. it could be a timing issue, or the transmission could be mechanically faulty. the dealer probably wants to replace both transmissions so there are no potential sync issues between different xmissions. at this point, i would tend to agree that you should replace both xmissions or at least find a (single) used old-style transmission that isn't faulty. i don't think it's a timing issue since your other side works correctly. you don't have to pay $1500 for them, either. i've seen (used) sets going for $500 and sometimes less. they are very easy to replace, and just a little bit harder to re-time. have you checked and/or replaced the cable(s) as it could also be a cable problem. a cable problem *may* be visible at the drive motor end, but the problem could also be *inside* the cable or even where the cable meets the xmission, and of course, it could also be the xmission itself or even the cable drive motor. what year is your car?

the order of operations that i would suggest would be:

- check cable ends at drive motor ($0)

- check xmission timing/re-time if necessary ($0)

- if you still have problems, replace cables ($)

- problems still? replace xmission(s). ($$)

In Boxsters with the newer style transmissions (after May 99), the B-pillar microwswitch was moved to the psgr side transmission.

Maurice, do you know what this microswitch does? we know what the handbrake and top latch microswitches do. is this the one that senses the transmission cycle and activates/shuts off the conv top dash light?

[1schoir]

Maurice, do you know what this microswitch does? we know what the handbrake and top latch microswitches do. is this the one that senses the transmission cycle and activates/shuts off the conv top dash light?

Chris:

I do know that as of production date May 1999 (which I believe affected MY 2000 and later) the B-Pillar Microswitch was moved from its left (driver's side) B-Pillar position to the right (passenger's side) transmission.

The B-Pillar microswitch is tripped when the top reaches it almost closed (1 to 2 inches from top of windshield) position, and that it is released on the return trip when the top is about 1-2 inches along its travel towards the completely open position. The B-Pillar microswitch is tripped (pressed in on the way to completely closed and then subsequently released just after starting its open travel) by a black metal arm that rotates around the same axis as the (black) round knuckle at the base of the B-Pillar. The confusion arises (for me too) because the motor and the direction of the top react differently to the two positions of the B-Pillar microswitch depending on what the position of the clamshell microswitch is (either up [with its spring action] or down [when the clamshell presses down on it]).

I have not yet definitively figured out what action or combination of actions actually cause the "top open" warning light to go out. I need the help of someone who is much more electrically inclined than I am with respect to switches and relays. (JPorter comes to mind on this board).

I have the mechanical part and all its components completely figured out as well as how each one affects the travel and position of the top, but have not figured out 100% of the electrical/relay part.

Regards, Maurice.

[1schoir]

Hello,

My top open indicator light, according to the manual is your signal to let got of the button and thus stop the top movment in it’s tracks. Someone here stated that there’s stops when the light goes on. Would this be an improvement on later models? It seem completely logical: If a signal from the microswitches can turn the light on and off, it sure as heck could stop the top.

If it is indeed a function on later models (mines a 99). Could I fit mine with a later model double relay/controller to get that function? Any body heard of a circuit “hack” to do it? I can’t think of why it wouldn’t have been done in the first place. It seems a slight jiggering of wires would do it…put the user out of the cycle.

Regards, P.K.

P.K.:

Some progress on determining how the "top open" light on the dashboard is turned on and off...

Yesterday, after reading and re-reading some of the posts from a couple of years ago by JPorter, Tool Pants and others, and reading a recent comment from Stefan to one of your posts, I went outside and started to "play" with my top again to see if I could transfer some of the knowledge of the aforementioned posters to my top. Some kind of "osmosis", I was imagining.

Anyway, I cycled my top up and down a couple of times and I was able to see that, near the end of the "top up" travel, when it was almost closed and the clamshell was closing down tight, the underside of the clamshell was NOT contacting the small black crooked lever that operates the clamshell microswitch. I was able to see this from inside the car by looking under the roll bar and holding up (out of the way) the vinyl "skirt" that normally hooks onto the two black plastic tabs on either side of the rearmost vertical surface under the clamshell.

On the reverse cycle, i.e., when the top was fully opened and the clamshell was closing down tight on top of it, I could not see as well whether or not it was making contact and depressing that lever to activate the microswitch.

To get the clamshell to go down further (tighter down), I screwed in the two 32mm painted (plastic) hexagon-shaped receptacles that accept the two cone shaped rubber parts that are fastened to the underside of either side of the clamshell on its rearmost edge. That aligned the clamshell a little better with the surface of the car's quarter panels, but now it was just about making contact.

The clamshell microswitch is tripped almost as soon as the crooked black lever is pressed down (i.e., at the very beginning of its travel downwards).

Next, I taped a 1/2" thick piece of styrofam to the underside of the clamshell (there is a small raised "bump" where the microswitch lever arm is supposed to make contact) and now, when I raised the top completely, I could see that the microswitch lever arm was being depressed by the clamshell as it was shutting down tight.

Now, I pressed my top button to open the top completely and, after the clamshell closed down tight, the "top open" light on the dashboard went out AND the motor stopped operating. EUREKA!!! Pressing the top button in the open direction (on the left side of the button) would now not operate the top. Pressing the top button in the closed direction now activated the motor, lit up the warning light and sent the top on its way to the closed position.

Unfortunately, for some reason, when the top reached its completely closed position and the clamshell closed down tight, the warning light would NOT turn off on that end.

BTW, in the course of trying the various adjustments (screwing in the receptacles, taping on 1/2 inch styrofoam piece, trying 1" inch thick piece, etc.) I noticed that at times, either with the top all the way up OR all the way down, the clamshell would cycle up and down in a loop for about a two inch travel from completely shut tight to slightly ajar and keep going back and forth with the button pushed in the open mode (with the top completely open) or with the button pushed in the closed mode (with the top completely closed).

I also noticed that what actually trips the warning light on when it is off is the actual initial pushing of the button. When you push the button, the warning light goes on instantaneously, with no delay whatsoever. I think that what happens next is a combination of signals from the B-pillar microswitch and from the clamshell microswithc is what serves to turn the warning light off, but not positive if it is both, or a combination, or a specific sequence that does it.

So, that is as far as I have gotten. I hope you will be able to use some of this information to figure out exactly how this actually works.

One added benefit of the warning light going out is that, with the top completely open, the windows can be operated all the way up and they will stay all the way up. Before, with the warning light on (even though the top was completely open), the windows would retract down by about 2-3 inches from their completely up position. The major benefit, of course, is that the motor turns off and there isn't excessive pressure on the push rods or the joint arms of the kind that would destroy the plastic cups ($$$$).

(Note: You can always "reset" the warning light [i.e., turn it off] by disconnecting the battery for 10 seconds. If you do it for only 10 seconds, you don't have to re-code the radio, but you still have to reset the clock.)

As you said, I would like for my top to "be all that it can be", and I'm not quite there yet, but I think we have made some progress.

Regards, Maurice.

[pk2]

P.K.:

Some progress on determining how the "top open" light on the dashboard is turned on and off...

Yesterday, after reading and re-reading some of the posts from a couple of years ago by JPorter, Tool Pants and others, and reading a recent comment from Stefan to one of your posts, I went outside and started to "play" with my top again to see if I could transfer some of the knowledge of the aforementioned posters to my top. Some kind of "osmosis", I was imagining.... still have to reset the clock.)

As you said, I would like for my top to "be all that it can be", and I'm not quite there yet, but I think we have made some progress.

Regards, Maurice.

Thanks Maurice, sounds like you hit on another piece to the puzzle, I always thought the rear switch with the big arm on it seemed like an awful big target to miss, and, as you said, it doesn’t take much to trip the switch. So I never bothered with it, guess I ought to revisit it.

As to the up position, gotta have something to do with the b pillar switch and whatever circuitry goes along with it, or at least it works in conjunction with something else…wonder if those “sensors” by the rearview mirror come into play for some reason (never understood what they were there for)

Still fiddling with my Super charger. Wrestled and wrestled with it till learned in a very mater of fact way that despite TPC protestations to the contrary, installers regularly hack and mod the thing to make them fit and work. I really thought there was something wrong with my car. Turns out to be a somewhat poor design with poor execution. My car and I aren’t to blame for my bleeding knuckles

BTW, do you have a remote on your key for the top, I do and it doesn’t do anything either. Hope when the normal functions are sorted out, the remote will fall into line…

Regards, PK

P.S. Ill get to gandering at those wiring diagrams for the top as soon as I get the SC square.

[1schoir]

P.K.:

Some progress on determining how the "top open" light on the dashboard is turned on and off...

Yesterday, after reading and re-reading some of the posts from a couple of years ago by JPorter, Tool Pants and others, and reading a recent comment from Stefan to one of your posts, I went outside and started to "play" with my top again to see if I could transfer some of the knowledge of the aforementioned posters to my top. Some kind of "osmosis", I was imagining.... still have to reset the clock.)

As you said, I would like for my top to "be all that it can be", and I'm not quite there yet, but I think we have made some progress.

Regards, Maurice.

Thanks Maurice, sounds like you hit on another piece to the puzzle, I always thought the rear switch with the big arm on it seemed like an awful big target to miss, and, as you said, it doesn’t take much to trip the switch. So I never bothered with it, guess I ought to revisit it.

As to the up position, gotta have something to do with the b pillar switch and whatever circuitry goes along with it, or at least it works in conjunction with something else…wonder if those “sensors” by the rearview mirror come into play for some reason (never understood what they were there for)

Still fiddling with my Super charger. Wrestled and wrestled with it till learned in a very mater of fact way that despite TPC protestations to the contrary, installers regularly hack and mod the thing to make them fit and work. I really thought there was something wrong with my car. Turns out to be a somewhat poor design with poor execution. My car and I aren’t to blame for my bleeding knuckles

BTW, do you have a remote on your key for the top, I do and it doesn’t do anything either. Hope when the normal functions are sorted out, the remote will fall into line…

Regards, PK

P.S. Ill get to gandering at those wiring diagrams for the top as soon as I get the SC square.

PK:

I believe that the "sensors" by the rearview mirror are sensors for movement inside the cabin when the alarm is on.

My key only has two remote functions, one to arm and disarm the alarm/locks, and the other to remotely open the rear trunk lid.

The problem with these superchargers and a lot of aftermarket kits is that the makers of these kits won't admit or inform you up front that "minor" modifications or bending might be necessary. I'm sure you'll get it sorted out eventually and your knuckles will heal a little faster when you hear the whirring of the supercharger.

As far as the top, I did replace the B-pillar microswitch (along with almost everything else) so I'm not so sure that that is where the problem lies. I think some of the answer may lie in that hard to decipher table that is on page 61-6 of the Bentley manual.

Let us know when the SC is done and we'll get to the "bottom" of the top mystery eventually. Maybe JPorter will stumble onto this thread and enlighten us all.

Regards, Maurice.

[azzar0]

Having played with my top a lot, I can honestly say that the way it works electrically is a mystery to me. Maurice talks about the two switches, the B pillar and the one on top of the transmissions motor, and he is correct in that they exist. What they actually do - I don't know. I do know that it is not a combination of signals from those 2 switches that stop the motor when the top is down, because if that was all it took you could simply push the two switches, regardless of the position of the top, and cause the light to go out and/or the motor to stop. Obviously that is not the case (I tried), so there is something else that works together with these switches to send the STOP signal. I believe ToolPants mentioned that the relay 'knows' when to stop the motor, which leads me to believe that the light goes out (for top down operation) when 1) the 2 switches are pushed (ON) and 2) the relay says it's done (and turns the motor off). If any of these conditions are not met, then the light will stay on.

You say that your motor doesn't stop running. If that's the case, I would try to swap a relay with someone else to see if that's the problem. It sounds like a good place to check...

I am still having problems with my top, as the sides of the car where the transmissions are screwed in are not strong enough and they cause the transmissions to flex when high tension is generated by the UP movement, which in turn causes the white balls to pop. Going down is not a problem, just up. So for the time being I push the top UP button, then as soon as the clamshell moves down I stop and latch. The idiot light is on, of course, because I haven't completed the cycle, but at this point it's as good as it gets. The alternative is to disconnect the push rods with the white balls at ends and operate the top semi-automatically (push the button to raise / lower the clamshell and pull / drop the top up / down manually). I will eventually reinforce the sides as suggested, but I haven't been able to find a good, reasonable welding shop yet (and I haven't had the time to actively pursue this either).

Good Luck and let us know if you decipher the electronics aspect of the top, as it is, for most people, a puzzling mystery.

[pk2]

PK:

I believe that the "sensors" by the rearview mirror are sensors for movement inside the cabin when the alarm is on.

My key only has two remote functions, one to arm and disarm the alarm/locks, and the other to remotely open the rear trunk lid.

The problem with these superchargers and a lot of aftermarket kits is that the makers of these kits won't admit or inform you up front that "minor" modifications or bending might be necessary. I'm sure you'll get it sorted out eventually and your knuckles will heal a little faster when you hear the whirring of the supercharger.

As far as the top, I did replace the B-pillar microswitch (along with almost everything else) so I'm not so sure that that is where the problem lies. I think some of the answer may lie in that hard to decipher table that is on page 61-6 of the Bentley manual.

Let us know when the SC is done and we'll get to the "bottom" of the top mystery eventually. Maybe JPorter will stumble onto this thread and enlighten us all.

Regards, Maurice.

Hey Marice,

I’m further waylaid by my starter problem (I think you’ve added your 2 cents somewhere). Funny, all I’d done was change the plugs and taken of a filter box duct (plus hung the sc on the motor, (no connections made though)). To make matters more comical, this whole odyssey started with a decision to refinish my wheels (then since the cars up & level, how bout change the gear oil, need a special torx socket for that, & hey, low and behold, there’s the bracket for the blower I started to install 2 years ago, lets reignite that flame, need new plugs for that...etc, etc).

Tell me more about table on “61-6 of the Bentley manual”. What does it cover? I’ve wanted that manual but have been spending money willy-nilly while this project(s) spins out of control. Not in the budget

One thing that might fit into the top equation, maybe, would be some interface to the computer under the drivers seat, might entail some programming by someone with a Porsche PS….bla bla tool. That computer has tentacles into a number of areas you wouldn’t expect, top might be one. I had mine (computer) replaced while the top mechanism was a mess…inoperable. Would explain my problem but not really yours in that yours is working halfway now through brute force.

One thing I’ curios about; when your top goes down and stops itself, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the clamshell actually delays shutting off after the switch is tripped, for a second, to cinch down the clamshell down. Do you se any evidence of that happening?

I just got to take a look at the wiring diagrams a bit, read some voltages, etc. Problem is, a lot of those wires disappear into the relay/controller with no explanation as to the logic in there, so I’m only guardedly optimistic that I’ll find the silver bullet.

Anyway thanks,

Peter

P.S. Here’s a synopsis of my starter woes. I’m thinking more and more my problem is a corroded cable connection.

1) The convertible top motor, though not a starter, draws quite a lot of amps and it zings up & down without a hiccup

2) The voltage on the battery drops only about 2 volts while attempting to crank (not sure what that might mean, but my intuition tells me this is indicative of a fairly healthy battery).

3) The battery has only 2 yrs. on a 6 yr. type

4) The battery has not really been abused. In the 2 yrs. I’ve had it, I’ve probably only had to put a charger on it 3 or 4 times (inactivity or leaving the radio on for to long). It normally is back up and charged in less than an hour

5) It seems unlikely that I could pull the car into the driveway after months of perfect performance and have it catastrophically fail sitting in my driveway for just a week. (Running it down once by leaving the radio left on for to long (3-4 hours)).

6) Trying to crank the starter does little in the way of dimming the lights and the like.

Edited October 17, 2007 by pk2

[1schoir]

PK:

I believe that the "sensors" by the rearview mirror are sensors for movement inside the cabin when the alarm is on.

My key only has two remote functions, one to arm and disarm the alarm/locks, and the other to remotely open the rear trunk lid.

The problem with these superchargers and a lot of aftermarket kits is that the makers of these kits won't admit or inform you up front that "minor" modifications or bending might be necessary. I'm sure you'll get it sorted out eventually and your knuckles will heal a little faster when you hear the whirring of the supercharger.

As far as the top, I did replace the B-pillar microswitch (along with almost everything else) so I'm not so sure that that is where the problem lies. I think some of the answer may lie in that hard to decipher table that is on page 61-6 of the Bentley manual.

Let us know when the SC is done and we'll get to the "bottom" of the top mystery eventually. Maybe JPorter will stumble onto this thread and enlighten us all.

Regards, Maurice.

Hey Marice,

I’m further waylaid by my starter problem (I think you’ve added your 2 cents somewhere). Funny, all I’d done was change the plugs and taken of a filter box duct (plus hung the sc on the motor, (no connections made though)). To make matters more comical, this whole odyssey started with a decision to refinish my wheels (then since the cars up & level, how bout change the gear oil, need a special torx socket for that, & hey, low and behold, there’s the bracket for the blower I started to install 2 years ago, lets reignite that flame, need new plugs for that...etc, etc).

Tell me more about table on “61-6 of the Bentley manual”. What does it cover? I’ve wanted that manual but have been spending money willy-nilly while this project(s) spins out of control. Not in the budget

One thing that might fit into the top equation, maybe, would be some interface to the computer under the drivers seat, might entail some programming by someone with a Porsche PS….bla bla tool. That computer has tentacles into a number of areas you wouldn’t expect, top might be one. I had mine (computer) replaced while the top mechanism was a mess…inoperable. Would explain my problem but not really yours in that yours is working halfway now through brute force.

One thing I’ curios about; when your top goes down and stops itself, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the clamshell actually delays shutting off after the switch is tripped, for a second, to cinch down the clamshell down. Do you se any evidence of that happening?

I just got to take a look at the wiring diagrams a bit, read some voltages, etc. Problem is, a lot of those wires disappear into the relay/controller with no explanation as to the logic in there, so I’m only guardedly optimistic that I’ll find the silver bullet.

Anyway thanks,

Peter

Peter:

What you describe as your "odyssey" is a well-known phenomenon in gearhead circles, and it is affectionately known as the "mightaswell syndrome". It goes something like this...you take one broken part to work on it, and then you start thinking, well, as long as I have easier access to this other part, I might as well... You get the idea. One good thing is that it signals that you are perfectly normal. LOL!!! Although, I have been down that road so many times that those who know me well would argue that point strenuously.

Don't get discouraged, especially not by the starter problem. It's sounding more and more like a bad, loose or corroded connection problem. Just keep thinking what the car will feel like when you get it all back together.

With respect to the convertible top idiot light saga, there is a poster named "jporter" who has explored what is known as the "after-running time" of the convertible top motor once the clamshell microswitch is tripped. Tool Pants also shed some light on that issue in one of his posts, where he described an old-time german mechanic who used a spring glued onto the underside of the clamshell to trip the microswitch a split second sooner. jporter's solution was more involved, and in the end he concluded that he might have been able to solve his original problem by first tightening down the nuts that hold the black plastic cover on top of the transmission where the wormgear that is turned by the cable is located.

I don't think the alarm unit under the seat is related. This past weekend I installed the kits to correct the airbag light problem and I became pretty familiar with all of the wires down there.

In my case, as I stated, there was a cycling back and forth of the clamshell at the very end of its travel towards closing with one of the thicknesses of styrofam blocks that I tried. It's a little too cold in New York for the vinyl window the last couple of days, but as soon as we get a sunny, warmer day, I will go out and analyze that and report back.

Even though I replaced my canvas top recently, I'm being careful with the vinyl window.

I am attaching a photo of the chart that I mentioned from the Bentley manual. Bentley got it from the Porsche Factory Manual. Maybe when you study it, something will make sense to you there, although, with what you have going on with your supercharger install, it may be a little taxing.

If the photo is not clear enough, let me know and I will scan it in.

Let me know if any "lights" go off!

Regards, Maurice.

[pk2]

Having played with my top a lot, I can honestly say that the way it works electrically is a mystery to me. ...I will eventually reinforce the sides as suggested, but I haven't been able to find a good, reasonable welding shop yet (and I haven't had the time to actively pursue this either).

Good Luck and let us know if you decipher the electronics aspect of the top, as it is, for most people, a puzzling mystery.

You’ve made some very keen observations. You are correct that the stop could be accomplished either up or down with clamshell switch.

However, by it’s position, it would be less accurate in stopping the top on the way up than it would on the way down. (I.E when the top is opened all the way, tripping the back switch doesn’t really matter if the top is a +/- a ½ inch or so for everything to appear ducky.

If you use that same switch to align to the top of the windshield header that half inch (give or take) is going to be a problem. Furthermore, the top in the up position is cantilevered way out there, effectively amplifying that ½ inch of slop into an easy inch of play.

Tripping a stop switch at the b-pillar, would be significantly more indicative of where the top is with respect to the wind shield header and could be fine tuned independent of the rear stop switch.

As to the 2 switches working in concert, the b pillar switch would have to trip the stop function before the clamshell switch does or the switches would have to cancel each other out somehow (in the controller? All that circuitry in there must do something).

Also, it’s my understanding that at least in the rear top down position, the motor continues run for a second or so after it trips the switch to cinch the clam shell snug (could be wrong here, could be wrong every where for that matter)

As to toolpants statement that in effect, it’s all in the controller, true. But the controller can’t control anything accurately without feedback signals from something’s like…switches.

I did get to swap out my controller for a known working one (saw it work properly right in front of my house) It didn’t help my problem at all. Furthermore, mine (relay) worked fine in his car.

Anyway, thanks for the reply, am I being dickish enough in this reply… could be way off the mark, just my logic.

Regards, PK

[pk2]

Peter:

What you describe as your "odyssey" is a well-known phenomenon in gearhead circles, and it is affectionately known as the "mightaswell syndrome". ...I am attaching a photo of the chart that I mentioned from the Bentley manual. Bentley got it from the Porsche Factory Manual. Maybe when you study it, something will make sense to you there, although, with what you have going on with your supercharger install, it may be a little taxing.

If the photo is not clear enough, let me know and I will scan it in.

Let me know if any "lights" go off!

Regards, Maurice.

Marice, shut-up all ready, I've got work to do!(LOL)

Anyway, Picture’s fine, thanks a lot! At very first blush it says to me that the b pillar and rear clamshell switches do indeed work in concert… somehow.

Really do have to get to work, I’ll give your post a thorough twice over tonight, mean time I just posted a real rambler to a comment by azzar0 in this thread. Made it up as I went along but I think there’s some validity in my conclusions.

Thanks again,

Peter

Edited October 18, 2007 by pk2

[pk2]

What you describe as your "odyssey" is a well-known phenomenon in gearhead circles, and it is affectionately known as the "mightaswell syndrome".

...In my case, as I stated, there was a cycling back and forth of the clamshell at the very end of its travel towards closing with one of the thicknesses of styrofam blocks that I tried. It's a little too cold in New York for the vinyl window the last couple of days, but as soon as we get a sunny, warmer day, I will go out and analyze that and report back.

Even though I replaced my canvas top recently, I'm being careful with the vinyl window...

Regards, Maurice.

Hey Maurice,

1st and foremost, figured my starter problem out!! “Pease in a pod” I ageed whole heartedly with your suggestions of bad connection. I was positive it was a bad and significant connection. I wound up running one of the cables off my jumper cables, directly from the negative terminal on my battery to the engine block. Jumped in, twisted the key and..varrooom! (Repeated a dozen times instead of pinching myself). It works.

So, I just need to hunt down the ground strap from the engine to the body and heal what ever ails it. It’s got to be a big and fat cable to handle the current so it shouldn’t be to hard to find. But I digress, wrong forum.

“mightaswell syndrome”…also known as “mission creep syndrome” I think. Glad to know it’s normal. Do they have acronyms like “MAW” or “MCS” to further validate this tragic condition?

I like the old fashion Germans solution, my thirty year old gate openers us a similar device as its safety stop, to much tention and it stops the gate and reveres direction. Jporter backs up what I thought I read somewhere, that the motor keeps running briefly after the clamshell switch is tripped. Would have to happen in the controller circuitry. I don’t think this function applies to the closing process, but I dunno, just a feeling.

You mention these workarounds and the suggested complexity of jporters hack. I admire his ingenuity & pluch but would rather find the source of the problem and its multitude of symptoms…Don’t want a hemophiliac covered with Band-Aids when a blood clotting agent would negate the need.

Cycling back and forth; you probably know that if you open the top and keep the open button down (on our functionally challenged tops) the clamshell lands and goes up again, purely as a function of the transmission/motor continuing it revolution. Cycling, hmmm not sure of the of what’s actually happening, but if the clamshell is bouncing up and down, could be it’s twisting itself to a stop & hitting a current sensitive safety circuit which reverse the direction of the motor when the stopped motor starts drawing a ton of current trying to go. Like pwr. Windows.

Looking at you’re the chart you sent, gotta give it a better study, My first blush has turned a bit ashen, I’m not so sure about my conclusions was right regarding the 2 switches acting in concert, at least not as I envisioned. I’ll probably nail it about the same time it thaws out enough for you to get your top down.

I’m going to focus on that bum ground strap (no biggy) and wrap up that super charger…get back on the road. Optimistic eta, a day or two.

Any way, seems we both had the right idea on my starter, bet we can do the same with the top!

Regards, PK

P.S. Is there money to be made here, fly in from both coast to fix some brokers trophy wives stuck cabriolet top? LOL