Strange top problem

[kostasclk]

First I want to say hello to all. This is my first post after I got my 2002 boxster in May, a dream come true. I have this problem with my top. As soon as I got the car I went on and ordered a glass window top from Robbins. Coming from a CLK conv. where I could operate the top with the remote it was simply unacceptable for me to do that chop thing. Installation went fine and the new top is great but now I have this problem. When I put the top up, the plastic protectant of the side of the clamshell arm at the driver's side, about half way up, rubs with the tension cable of the top. I removed the plastic protectants to make some space. At the passenger side there is more space so it does fine. I read everything I found about the top's problem s here and I have done thousands of measurements of distances but there doesn't seem to be any difference between the left and right side. The top is aligned perfectly. Also the latch of the top when putting down hits the windstop and the cavity of the storage shelf. All this along with the posts about catastrophic engine failures give me nightmares lately. Thanks for reading and any help is appreciated.

[Chris_in_NH]

so the issue is that the plastic piece rubs the tension cable? is the plastic piece getting hung up on the tension cable or is it just rubbing, but the top open/closes normally?

the plastic pieces are purely cosmetic, they just hide the clamshell arms when you are raising/lowering the top. you could just leave them off if you want. mine have been off for the last 5 years. i know that's probably not the answer you were looking for...

as you may have noticed, they just clip on to the clamshell arms. unless you can push the plastic pieces on a little more so that they don't contact the tension cables (we are talking about the ~8" cables that hold down the rear of the conv top - not the conv top drive cables that are clipped into the sides of the rear conv top area, right?), i can't really think of a solution.

regarding the top latch hitting the windstop, another post on the same subject had suspected a bent conv top frame. that would also explain your issue with the clamshell arm cover. did you replace the top canvas yourself or did you have a shop do it? is it possible that you or the shop could have bent the top frame while installing the glass-window canvas? here's the thread i was talking about; you've probably already seen it: http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=14562

as for your worries about top failures, 99.9% of them have to do with the conv top drive cables' outer covering (sheath) stretching due to heat. the sheath stretches and effectively 'pushes' the inner drive cable out of the conv top cable motor. usually, one side comes out of the motor first, while the other side still works. so the motor raises one side of the conv top while the other side is basically locked down. this is when the terrible snapping noises occur. if you ever hear these terrible noises, or something just doesn't seem right, LET GO OF THE CONV TOP BUTTON! ;)

supposedly, in later models Porsche used reinforced cables so they wouldn't stretch. the reinforced cables appear textured, while the older cables are flat black (like a cable-TV cable). you can periodically check your cables by pressing the conv top button like you are going to put the top down, so that the clamshell raises, then stop pressing the conv top button (top should be unlatched, but still in the 'closed' position). under the clamshell, in front of the 3rd brake light, there is a small black box (conv top cable motor) mounted to the rear firewall with a cable going into each side. unclip the brass clips that hold the cables into the motor and remove the cables. check the ends of the cables to make sure there is at least 3/4" of inner drive cable sticking out the end of the cable sheath. 3/4" is the magic number.

this thread explains quite a bit and has some good pictures of the parts i'm talking about (you will need to be logged-in to see all the pics). Conv Top R&R

as far as the engine failures, treat your engine well and (hopefully) it will treat you well. here are a few good ideas:

-frequent oil changes (at LEAST every 15K miles, but some people change it every 7.5K) including air/oil filters

-new spark plugs at recommended intervals

-premium gas

-don't let the car warm up to operating temp at idle

-don't 'lug' the engine

-don't go over 4K RPMs in any gear until the car is fully warmed up (10-20 minutes of 'normal' driving)

-when starting the car, wait 10-20 seconds before driving off so that oil can get to where it needs to be

-run a bottle of Techron fuel system cleaner thru the engine prior to an oil change

hope this helps. congrats on your Boxster! :)

Edited September 10, 2007 by Chris_in_NH

[kostasclk]

Thank you very much Chris for your answer. I took off the plastic piece at the driver's side to free some space in between because it would hung up on the tension cable. I thought that maybe there was something that could be adjusted. The top was installed by the Porsche dealer and I 've had the problem with the latch when the car had the factory top. About the possible bent where should I look for it? When I examine the top at the part where it touches the windshield frame I can see it is perfectly aligned with it. That's why I am going crazy. I have been through all the posts you mention and many more from other forums with no luck. As for your suggestions for the engine you can be sure I will follow them. Cheers.

[1schoir]

Thank you very much Chris for your answer. I took off the plastic piece at the driver's side to free some space in between because it would hung up on the tension cable. I thought that maybe there was something that could be adjusted. The top was installed by the Porsche dealer and I 've had the problem with the latch when the car had the factory top. About the possible bent where should I look for it? When I examine the top at the part where it touches the windshield frame I can see it is perfectly aligned with it. That's why I am going crazy. I have been through all the posts you mention and many more from other forums with no luck. As for your suggestions for the engine you can be sure I will follow them. Cheers.

Kostas:

I am not sure whether this might solve or ameliorate your problem with the top latch hitting the windstop on the way down, but it might be worth a try.

The push rods (or "joint arms") that connect each V-levers to the metal ball on the bottom of the B-pillar on each side have an adjustment that affects the way the front of the convertible top aligns its two tongues with the two receptacles on the top edge of the windshield frame. AFTER YOU MARK THE ORIGINAL POSITIONS AND LENGTHS OF THESE PUSH RODS, loosen the 10mm nut (with thick washer) and try in turn to elongate or shorten overall length of each push rod and see if that has any effect on any clearance between the top latch and the windstop. If it does, you might be able to fine-tune it so that it clears the windstop and also still engages the receptacles on the top of the windshield frame.

Just a thought, since you say you are going crazy, and it might help.

Regards, Maurice.

P.S. Curious as to how many Drachmas or Euros the dealer charged for that job.

[kostasclk]

Hello Maurice. Dealer charged 600 euros-about 790 USD- to install the top. They kept the car in for three days and they may be responsible for bending the frame. The cost of the top with shipping and customs duties was 815 euros-about 1075 USD. There is only one official dealership here in Greece. Also I haven't found any independent porsche mechanics and porsches aren't so rare here. That's why when you have to do any dealer work you have to make an appointment at least 3 weeks before. And the techs over there they don't know nothing. They drive their civics or focuses or corollas and they treat porsches like ****. Anyways I followed your suggestion and shortened the push rods as far as they would go. I noticed at first that the front part of the top came way back from the windshield but with some force the latch would engage and the top could close. Then when I tried to open the top it did not touch anything (that's excitement) but at the the lowest postition I heard a dreadfull crack and the passenger red ball joint broke. I was going to replace them with the new white ones anyway so that did not bother me so much. Now off to the dealership to order those. And now the questions. Is part number 986-561-279-02 correct? Do I also need the part 986-561-881-00 as another thread suggested? Must I replace the entire push rod or I just unscrew the broken part and screw the new white plastic? If I have to remove the push rod how do I remove the edge that attaches to the V-lever? When I remove them will the synch be kaput? Please help.

Greetings from sunny Athens Greece.

[1schoir]

Hello Maurice. Dealer charged 600 euros-about 790 USD- to install the top. They kept the car in for three days and they may be responsible for bending the frame. The cost of the top with shipping and customs duties was 815 euros-about 1075 USD. There is only one official dealership here in Greece. Also I haven't found any independent porsche mechanics and porsches aren't so rare here. That's why when you have to do any dealer work you have to make an appointment at least 3 weeks before. And the techs over there they don't know nothing. They drive their civics or focuses or corollas and they treat porsches like ****. Anyways I followed your suggestion and shortened the push rods as far as they would go. I noticed at first that the front part of the top came way back from the windshield but with some force the latch would engage and the top could close. Then when I tried to open the top it did not touch anything (that's excitement) but at the the lowest postition I heard a dreadfull crack and the passenger red ball joint broke. I was going to replace them with the new white ones anyway so that did not bother me so much. Now off to the dealership to order those. And now the questions. Is part number 986-561-279-02 correct? Do I also need the part 986-561-881-00 as another thread suggested? Must I replace the entire push rod or I just unscrew the broken part and screw the new white plastic? If I have to remove the push rod how do I remove the edge that attaches to the V-lever? When I remove them will the synch be kaput? Please help.

Greetings from sunny Athens Greece.

Kostas:

Sorry about your red plastic ball cup breaking, although it sounds as though you may have been on the right track. Thanks for the info on the cost of those repairs in Greece.

Perhaps you should try an intermediate position before trying the extreme shortest position, now that you have established that with the shortest position the latch clears the windstop. When you install your white plastic ball cups, start again with the original length that you had and try to shorten the push rods in small increments until it just clears. Of course, you now should pay extra close attention that when you have the push rods shortened so that they just clear, watch the mechanism when it gets near the lowest position to see if it is getting too much stress.

Remember what I said in my earlier post, that those push rod adjustments affect how the front of the convertible top aligns with the top edge of the windshield frame, that is why it was a little harder for you to close and latch the top after you shortened the push rods to their maximum. The key is to find the right length that will work at both critical points.

You don't have to replace the entire push rod, but you have to buy the entire push rod. Porsche does not sell just the white plastic ball cups separately (surprise, surprise!). It is easier to replace just the front part of the push rod (where it is fastened by the 10mm bolt and fat washer), but you can also replace the entire assembly. That part number 986 561 279 02 is correct.

When you remove them, it will not affect the synchronization, unless you operate the switch without everything connected.

If you wnat to replace the entire push rod, you can. Where it attaches to the V-lever, there is an allen key bolt in the middle that you can remove (there is blue loctite on the original threads). While you have it apart, make sure that your rubber bushings ("buffers") and the metal bushing insert in that joint are in good shape. The rubber bushings are what that other thread refer to. They are part number 986 561 881 00 and Porsche calls them "cabrio rubber buffers") and cost about $3.00 each. The metal bushing insert is part number (Porsche calls them "metal sleeves") 999 924 039 00 and cost about $6.00 each.

Come to think of it, if the above mentioned rubber buffers and/or metal sleeves are missing or worn out, that could affect the alignment of the top, albeit slightly.

Try the above and let us know how you make out. Kali mera!

Regards, Maurice.

[kostasclk]

I am posting this as an update to my problem. I replaced both the push rods with the new ones and I operated the top making various adjustments of the length of the push rods. What I found out was that if I shortened the push rods too much they would pop off the joint at the B pillar (luckily it did not break). Obviously shortening the push rods puts too much stress on them when the top is at full down position. But I also noticed another thing. When I try to open the top the clamshell starts pushing the top down when the top is about 7 inches from full down position. Can this be normal? It seems to me that the clamshell is moving faster than the top. This made me think that there must be something wrong with the transmissions since the cables and everything else are OK. So my next step is to remove them and check them. I have seen threads about removing the transmissions but what are the next steps to put the system back together? Is it common for the transmissions to fail when everything else seems to be fine? I thought about bringing the car to the dealer to save me the headache but the situation has become a challenge to me now. BE AFRAID OF ME TOP! I WILL BEAT YOU!!